Pietro

When I started HT I was shaking a lot. Then eventually I stopped shaking. The interpretation was that as the channels opened they would not shake anymore. Anybody here had similar experiences with the HT, and is now shaking with KL, and would like to comment on the differences, similarities between the two?

Thanks for posting this. It always makes a good read. I started reading it some years ago, when it came out, but I don't think that at the time I finished it. Now I did. There are a few things to be commented on this, that is, speaking on the content, and avoiding more than one line, to the unpleasantness of the form. First of all the article is quite old. In an article that speak of things happened in the 70s as if speaking of historical events, 10 years are quite a long time. Probably the author, himself, would consider it quite dated, by now. I don't know exactly why you posted it here, except as a sort of reproch to this whole community. And yet I have yet to see someone who suggested the Tao of pooh as a serious taoist text. Mostly, if it ever got mentioned, it was as a semi serious, humorous, side lecture. The second thing to be told is that every religion, when it moves from one nation (or better from one culture) to another changes deeply. Buddhism changed when it moved from India to Tibet. Then when it went to China it changed again. Then to Japan it changed again. Each culture inevitably picks and leaves parts of the previous religion, and creates a new creature. Similarly Chan Buddhism went to Japan and became Zen. Here the change was so profound that they gave a new name. So of course when those huge tradition arrived inte west they are bound to change. And to be transformed. It is a long process that will take many generations. We are just witnes fromt he inside. And as always people who are involved in a process are the worse person to judge it. Then there is the point of some of those evil writers, who succumb to the temptation to pick Taoist and eastern writing for their own aim. How evil of them. In particular Robert Bly is being singled out here. Well, I have read Bly for many years. But Bly is generally not trying to explain different cultures, but to explain, using other cultures, our culture. As such he is using those poetry, juat as an example. But it has little importance if this is the aim of the author. The aim is not to explain the poet, but to explain a different concept. And yet, at times he manages to say things about the author that are quite correct (even though, as we said, it is not his job). In Bly I read a translation of a sonnet from Dante. I found it interesting, and I went back to read "La Vita Nova". Now Dante is from my home country, in a sense it is in my bones and DNA, like Taoism is in the DNA of a Chinese. And yet, after reading La Vita Nova (which I didn't at school), I found Bly commentary to still be quite interesting. And in no way did I found his commentary to be a form of American colonialism. In fact I was rather happy that some of Italian culture made it into the american mind. And finally there is his suggestion: if you are to become a taoist, then you need to learn chinese, and learn from a real taoist in china. But you see, this is exactly what many of us has done. Some people, here, post from China. Other went to China to find their teacher. And other, like me, have their teacher gone to China, learn there, become a Taoist figure, and then came back. I would agree that reading a bad translation of the ttj, and following a crap course in tai ji chuan, is NOT the way to go. But I do not agree that this is the way that most people are approaching their interest in taoism. It might have seemed in 1998. But while this might have been what was going on in the surface, there were many people who were traveling to China, and coming back from China. And now there is a number of authenthic Taoist schools, all around the place.

Yeah. I saw it. I had the extremely clear feeling/sensation that he did not believe half of the things he was saying. For example when he maid outrageous claims on how scientology was this and that he did not believe it. When instead he would say either you are inside or you are outside, he believed it. Now the question to me natural is, if he doesn't believe it himself, why is he doing all this?

Hello Sean, you know I came back here as a guest. So please take my post as a question and not a request. Agreed. Why would that be wrong? Why not creating a whole other forum like the personal practice forum, where any practitioner from any taoist school being allowed to open there their little temple. If this is done correctly it would keep the balance, would permit to TB to grow, and it would keep all the peaches in the same basket. Do you fear that people would then stop posting in the general section? You could require some general rules. Something like each sub-forum should have at least n-moderators. Each forum should be open to be read by any one in TB. No two sub-forum can be opened on the same school. This would give to the person coming to TB for the first time a pretty good index of the schools that are out there and active on the internet. Something which is surely missing right now.

"I? Coffee no more! I go for the inner bliss; and feel enlightened."

Hello Ian, I haven't answered you before because I haven't read this thread. I would like to point out the goal of my school as well as my goals. My school, from a meditation point of view, has two goals for the practitioner. The first is to become a human being, the second to become one with the tao. Now in such school you don't even engage in the question if you want to go for the second unless you have achieved the first. So right now all I am working on, in respect to what I learn from this school, is about how to become a human being. Now about my personal goal. It is more a sensation that is guiding me, than an intellectual goal. There some activities that I engage in that satisfy me in a very deep way. It is very clear to me that those activities are satisfying to me for something that is somehow unique in me. You would have a different set of activities, for example. Although we might find ourself to have a lot of the search in common when we both ask ourself, " ok, what makes sense for me to do in this point in time". But then the answer that we get would be different. One of such activity is academic research, for example. And so on. I see myself as a flower that is opening (Sorry for the gay image, it is probably the first time I share it, and with reason). As the flower is closed it is difficult to distinguish the petals. Each petal is a passion. One would be Academic research, another would be traveling, and so on. As I experience life, the petals have the possibility to open up. It is not always easy. Sometimes it is scary. Often you need to throw away all you have achieved so far to let the next petal open up. But as each petal open up, I learn more and more about myself. I know more and more the answer to the question "who am I?". So my goal is to fully open this flower. I think the Chinese term is to develop my Ming. Or to return to my Ming. Or to embody my Ming. Or to do something with or toward my Ming (Ming as Destiny, 命). Now if you consider that, again in my school a prerequisite to receive in the second part of the training (the one that goes from being a human being to being one with the tao) you need to be able to answer with no doubt at the question "who am I", you can see how my goals at this point and the goal of my school are in line. I hope I answered your question satisfactorily. And yes, very good question.

Hello Mat, could you please present me the 49 chapters. For I am not familiar with them. In particular I would like to know, the tradition the book came from, the time, the historical period and the author. Only then will I be able to start to have an idea of what does the authore really mean with what he is saying.

At yesterday's lesson I was quite flabbergasted to discover that the origin of the word virtue is "power". I suspect that changes the question quite a bit.

Hello Craig, sorry for not answering you before. We had connections issues here in the office. And I have no internet at home at the moment. I personally see/understand internal alchemy as being transformation and transmutation of energy. If you are going from qi to shen by balancing different polarities, that would be internal alchemy. Similarly if you transform energy from one organ to another that also I see it as internal alchemy. As you can see from the 16 nei gung system this is just a couple of points. You can expand the term to include others, but you can hardly get all 16 under the banner of internal alchemy. And yes, Buddy, the number 16 is somehow arbitrary. But is this is not me and Buddy agreeing, but Buddy agreeing with Bruce. He said so (Ulm, 2001 -about-, weekend workshop on the 16 nei gung system). Of course the assumption that I take (and that Buddy probably does not accept, or flat out denigrates) is that Bruce has taken the 16 nei gung system from a previous system. As such he did not came out with the number 16. But then again in our school you first dissolve all the blockages, until you have reached unity. Which is called the body of individuality. Only at that point the work progresses with internal alchemy. This because at that point you just can't dissolve any longer. The blockages are gone. As such in the water way, the internal alchemy is used only as a very advanced form. I am not there yet, and as such I can't comment on that. Nor can I give a better description of it. Hope that helped. Pietro

Yeah, we should vote for what the next craze should be, after K. Starjump seem fun, even if he confuses neigung with internal alchemy which ARE NOT the same. At least his system is positively hard to study, at least logistically, that we are not going to be surrounded by experts all at once wanting to teach around. Regarding how internal alchemy and neigung are not the same, they are not in the system I am studying, and if there is even one system in which the two are different, evidently the two terms cannot be interchanged. As for giving example of Nei Gung from Buddy system, maybe the best is to recall the 16 nei gung system from Bruce: 1. Breathing methods, in increasing complexity. 2. Feeling, moving, transforming and transmuting internal energies along the Energy channels of the body. 3. Precise body alignments. 4. Dissolving physical, emotional and spiritual blockages. 5. Moving energy through the body's meridian channels and energy gates. 6. Bending and stretching the body, inside out and outside in. 7. Opening and closing all parts of the body's tissues, joints and subtle energy anatomy. 8. Manipulating the energy of the external Aura. 9. Making circles and spirals of energy inside the body, controlling the body's spiraling energy currents, and moving chi in the body at will. 10. Absorbing and projecting energy to and from the body. 11. Controlling energies of the spine. 12. Controlling the body's left and right energy channels. 13. Controlling the body's central energy channel. 14. Learn capabilities and uses of the body's Lower tantien. 15. Learn capabilities and uses of the body's upper and Middle tantien. 16. Connecting every part of the physical body into one unified energy. But of course those are hard for someone who does not recognises the existance of energy.

Hello Star Jumper. Have you tried the K book and found that it did not let you receive the transmission, or have you found that no book ever carried a transmission, and thus you have generalised to say that no book can carry a transmission. Honestly curious. (and no, I am not practicing Kunlun, I am not aiming to practice Kunlun. I just read some of K. posts because lately the community seems to be hacked by this school) Pietro

I read some days ago about a few bums starting with GTD. I have been using GTD from two years now, and I have to say that it have been the BEST non meditative tool, that has more profoundly had effect on my meditation. Essentially is a very precise way to write down lists of things to do, and put things in calendars. The structure is so precise that there are no questions where did you write down something, and what do you need to do. You have it all written down. It takes a few days to get started, and once you are started it takes a few hours to get back in line if you have deranged (as it always happens, like with all good disciplines). But the effect is enormous. Essentially once you do it well, your mind naturally goes into a state of emptiness. Have you ever been in some remote place to do meditations for days on and. And have you ever found yourself being in silent mind? I am sure many of you did. Now here is the question, how much of this effect is due to the fact of doing so much meditation, and how much is due to the fact of having such a simple life. It is hard to have a silent mind when you have many things to attend. they just ask for your attention, and you need to follow them. But if you write them all down it all goes quite. But then you get confused with a huge list. Well GTD is a way to make different lists, so that you always know which one to use, in different sitatuion. After I started with GTD, I often end up having pen and paper near my meditation cushion. As soon as I sit, all sort of ideas start to pop up. I don't ignore them or suppress them. They are important, they are plans for my life. And my life is important (at least to me). Instead I write them out. One tiny piece of paper for each idea. I have A8 papers. Sometimes it take me even half an hour to write down all the ideas that come. But eventually they stop. They don't stop because I have reached a high level of meditation. They stop because I have organised them, and now my brain does not have to work on them anymore. And then meditation happens naturally. This state is called by the author of the system mind like water. And he speaks of it as the state you want to be in when you are a karate person in a martial fight. An empty mind, ready to answert to the environment. I would be curios to know if others have found similar (or opposite) results. Pietro

I think we all needed a long time to find how to implement the system in a way that fits us. I tried to use a Palm, but realised that I did not want to open up a computer every time I wanted to take a piss or make a phone call. Personally I use the 3x5 cards. Divided into buckets. Each bucket is a small plastic container. The size of a 3x5. I bought hundreds of them when I was playing Magic (the Gathering, the card game), and now I had them running around. So I use a 3x5 card with the name of the bucket. But then mostly A8 papers inside (that's half of a 3x5). One paper one task. I also have a huge box with the maybe someday's. It is a wooden box, that sits as my dream box. The box of all the things I dream to do. I only open it once every few months. But then I read them all, and update it. FOr the calendar I use the one in my phone. SImply because I have it always with me. The only thing I have implemented but not really using is the 43 folders system. I just can't be bothered every day to check it, so it it useless. Essentially as I am using it right now is not keeping me in the mind like water state all the time, but I have the possibility to go there any time I want.

interesting, thanks. Renting it might be the best thing. Actually the EEG machineone used by the italian researcher (whose name is Nitamo Federico di Montecucco) is a Brain Olotester. Very similar, only it also has a measure of how the right and left brain wave are in tune. I just found the company which presumebly produced it for Nitamo, and I sent them a mail asking for the prices. http://www.elemaya.com/XProgetti.htm Nitamo wrote a book on his results. Most of it is pretty philosophical, but one chapter had the rigour of a scientific paper, and that chapter I have found in the past in the internet. Too bad is in Italian!

Yes, there was some great work on this from an italian researcher. It has not been translated though, and so it is fairly unknown. I would REALLY like to have one of those machine. If anyone finda a way to get hold of one, please let me know. I suspect that with the explosion of technology the prices should be going down to the point to be affordable even for modest amatours like us. Cheers, Pietro

Benny, we are trying to defy gravity here. Not reason.

How would that be as an anti Verruca potion? That's just because you don't have any Verruca in your feet!

I don't know how many people noticed this. But considering how weird this group is I am quite certain quite a lot will find this info interesting. Si I was reading a pop science italian journal, and there was a few lines on the most weird scientific research being done. The last one was on... (make some noise) "Direct documentation of alien abduction for sexual reasons to produce alien-human ofspring." from Professor J. Mack Harvard Medical School. I went, wow, I want to read this. So I started googling for Mack, and I discovered that: as soon as he published his first results (1994) he was under inspection to check if he had followed the scientific method. He did, and the commission took no action. And then in 2004, 10 years after he collected his first results, he died of a car accident. source: http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachus...ed_in_accident/

no, no, even people who have met David in person are clueless about it ------------------- Cat, Ok, first of all I found your answer about why guys were asking you if you where an art student. Oh, by the way, don't miss this: http://www.pornforgirlsbygirls.com/ LOL: Totally work safe! And through where ? I never spoke about oil. What about avocado, or unpastorised butter. Ok, forget about the raw butter, that was a joke in the uk. But you can buy raw cream not far from london. Also mixing avocado with unheated honey, should make you a nice juice, sweet, and yummy. If you eat enough that will start to throw away poison from your body. And of course the best is raw butter. But you need to smuggle it from french. Regarding the oil, the problem is that often it is not "cold enough" pressed. You really need something that was pressed through a stone grind (is that the right word?). Because the heat if not does not get diffused and locally it gets warmed. Now the stone grind tend to hold the taste of the oil. So who has one will not let people from another farm, with lower quality oil use it. Which is why it is so rare.

I don't think cooked fat counts. Not sure about being an artist. It's probably more depending on you than on them. Did you consider to go out dressed normally for a change? But last week when I went Salsa dancing with a friend, I could see a whole PU made on her. It also included interesting topic (the guy was from Africa, and understood that this can be a really interesting topic for a white western girl), and winging (a friend of that guy who just went near and patted him on the back while he was failing in getting her number.

May I also add, just to be myself on the safe side, that I have NO intention to PM secred sacred information. That I have no idea if I even kept the info that was once copied in the old thread, and that I just don't give a dam about the whole thing. But I AM concerned about Cat's foot. Are you eating enough fat. That is necessary for your body to expell poisons.

Oh, boy! It's a virus!

Hmm, I seem to miss the part in the taoist canon where it says to just roll another to reach the tao. So I think the general understanding is that the relation with drugs is quite personal. Yet most taoists realise that a) drugs tend to fuck up your internal organs drugs tend to bring you far away from reality. Two things that taoists in general cherish. So I would be surprised to find a group of taoists where drugs are part of the student curriculum. Now the decision to destroy a plantation, once it has been clarified that it is no academic use for the school, seem to me more a political decision than anything else. In other words, if poppies where legal, and not dangerous would they have destroyed them as well, or just ignored them?

make it 16, and I am off

I was surprised to discover that there were so many taoists in the west, until I found: http://www.colombiasupport.net/199606/tao.html Now I am just very confused And the date is also important: June 1996 News