Pietro

Some years ago, before starting my adventure with the HT I was studying with a native american shaman. One of the things that I found very interesting is how spirituality was grounded in everyday life. And how there where phases in the evolution of a person, that where signed with rituals. But more than that you had teachings that would be given as those doors where reached. Then looking at other traditions I found that this was the case pretty much everywhere. In China kids of a certain age become part of taoistic rituals, where they beat the drum, for hours on end, developing a sense of rythm, and a respect for society. As well as a certain phisical endurance. As well as an understanding that they are part of society, and an important part, too. In the west we have baptism, and cresima (becoming a soldier of Christ), and although many of them have now been transformed in empty rituals, this is not always the case, or at least not the intention of who makes them. So, here is the question... but first let me clarify that I will not answer to this question in this post, but I will pose the question and then answer to it, with another post. Ok, to the question, imagine two possible situations: a normal family in the normal world and a family in a tao village. What would you teach to the kids (your childs, or the childs that society have assigned you, through adoption or through being the godfather...) in both situations? In the first situation you are the parents and have to make decisions about the education of your kids. In the second you are the whole congregation of all the parents, and elders, and all the adults, and have to make decisions for all the kids of the tribe. And if your vote is that each parent should decide by themselves, what would you decide for your family The situation main difference is that in the second case (the tao village) your solution will be adopted by everybody. So also the other kids of the village will be raised in the same way. Your kid will not feel loney, or different or would mature faster, because of what you teach him. I especially would like to know a) the list of concepts/techniques (if any)/values that you would consider important and the age (or what should happen) at which those teachings should be given. c) the actual way in which you would let those teaching be tought d) would you keep them secret before a certain age not to ruin an element of surprise or would they be a part of everyday life, or something in between, how so. I would like to add a few points. When I read about Taoism from Bruce he clarifies that in Taoism a person is not considered to be ready to have a family and kids unless he has gone over the wounds from his family, and has become a mature human being. Only from that point onward can the path be considered a spiritual path and not a recovery path. So shall we say that as a parent you will consider your job to be completed when your kid is ready to have kids himself. Or at least you have given him enough tools that he can, eventually, reach this goal. Your goal is not to make an enlightened master, but a mature human being. Please also consider indirect teachings: you might not teach zazen, but if you practice it at home he could pick it up. Would you then practice it in secret, or explain, or not explain or what? An example, also: think about the diet, Yoda just said that it feels some of the things he is learning right now, he should have learned them from 5th grade. So, What would you teach? Why those ...? When? Why then? a) If you where living in a normal society and If you were living in a taoist village. I am particularly (but not only) interested in hearing the point of view of fathers and mothers. Many thanks to all those that try even a partial answer. Pietro P.S. added later. Oh yes, to make it simple the asumption is that your companion agrees with you whatever you decide. More than that, would have reached the same decisions him/her self!

I am so happy that this fatherly energy gets expressed.

Food combining is fundamental for the enzymes. If you have a serious enzyme deficiency you can litteraly die by eating separated the same food that would make your health when eaten together. Some rules (see what I do just not to write my phd): Sweet should go with fat. This prevents the glicemich spike. If you have problems eating something check if adding unpastorised butter mixed with unheated honey in the same meal makes it more digestible. Example: I could not eat eggs and was feeling very weak. COmbined them with (nearly) raw butter and unheated honey I could eat them. There is more to it but I don't know it. Essentially everything you eat needs enzymes to be digested. If you cannot eat it often it is because you lack the proper enzymes. Often the enzymes are available from other sources. As your body gets stronger food combining becomes less a vital necessaity. Now I don't need to eat butter and honey every time I eat an egg. But for some months I had too.

Hello Neimad, I just remembered some extra elements that might be necessary against yeast infection. You might want to test them. I found them in some obscure extreme diet corners in the net. You said you were doing: It seem that to really have them working you also need: A full apple. Green ones are better. Very sour. Just keep it in your mouth, as if biting it, for as long as you keep the garlic implants. This will create a nice yin yang balance. Also since the skin might contain parassites some raw olive oil on the skin can be very good. The next elements is some raw potatoes, good for absorbing extra sweat. Cut in thin slices and places nicely on the naked skin. And finally to make all the elements work together I suggest, while keeping all this to have a good sauna. Good luck. Pietro

http://taotewiki.net/teeth

Perfect. I just would like to add, that not all raw honey is really raw. I don't know why. FOr example here in Germany by law it should be all raw, and yet some gives me really problem with the spleen while others don't. Normally I find out immediatly as if you take 200 grams of unraw honey your spleen will really not like it and cry bloody murder. Some people say that it is because some farmers put sugar near the honeycomb, which the bee start using. Or bacuase the honey from some flowers is more miner than others. In short I don't know. But what I do know is that by taking a lot of honey with my butter I know if it is wrong for my body and then I avoid that type (not the whole brand, just that type on that brand). And all this brings us to my father asking me what should he do with the 8 jars of open honey that Ileft at his house in Rome

Ok, a few info and correction based on the sources. I have the books from Stefensson here. They are mostly the books refered to when people speak about eskimo. a) it is not true that they eat always the whole of the animal. They tended to give to the dogs the interior. But I also don't think that they would also only take the lean meat. Just they mostly would not eat the organs. But yes they would eat the fat. (I am not saying that the organs are bad. I think they are very good, and full of enzymes, which is why wild animals are eating them first. Just the eskimo would not eat them often) most of the time they live in a hot and damp climate uh? well, inside the igloo was actually very hot and damp. I don't know why, as I suppose that an igloo made of ice could not be hotter than 0 degrees, but according to what stefensson who stayed with them and lived in their house for years) sais. Inside their huts it was so hot that everybody would be naked all the time. (also him who is a westerner). And damp too. The only moment when an eskimo would go in the cold was often to pee or for few hours in the morning. This is winter. In fact he states that probably it is because of this hot and dump environment that also they achieved some fantastic health. And c) it is not true that they have such a short life expectancy. Provided that you are speaking about eskimo living in their traditional lifestyle with no modern diet. For the differences on the health between before and after using a western diet you can get it all from the Weston a Price book.

Many people in the raw community I follow consider yeast (as bacteria in general) good for detoxifying. But I suppose you need to be willing to take raw meat and similar, so on one side you rebuild your body while on the other side the microorganism are taking care of the old and sick cells. I have some doubts on molassas in general and in putting it in tea in particular. I use only fruit and raw unheated honey. But I use huge amount of honey. Maybe 200 grams a day. Mixed with raw butter. Now the raw honey is ok because is a kind of sugar that the spleen can recognise and binds with the molecule released by the spleen (the insuline?). Sugar is not so, and this is the problem, as the spleen will keep on releasing insulin (I think) trying to balance it. But it doesn't bind, so the problem does not get balanced, and this is why people end up having diabete. Now, when you heat up honey you are essentially breaking up the complex sugar molecules into simple sugar molecules, similar to the ones you have in sugar. Which is why I don't put honey in my tea. I am not sure on the chemical composition of molasses. I think it has been cooked and it what remains at the bottom of the pot after you cook it. In any case you are cooking it when you put it into the tea. Also the honey is full of active enzymes. I doubt on molasses... Ok I got the book and checked it: Sorry. May I suggest that you go and look for unheated honey?

I kept bread for 4 years, and of course I would eat out when I was with friends (less than once a week) or when I would go back to Rome. I kept bread essentially because my body would go yoyo if I were to eat not enough bread. But white bread would absorb some of the excessive hormones. Then as time went by I was eating more and more bread. Moving from one little bread a day to 3 or 4 a day on which I would put the butter and honey. The result was obvious: pain in the teeth. After all archeologist / anthropologist spot when a culture discovers bread by when the teeth of old people are not perfect anymore. Also in time I had become slack with oil pulling and was a couple of years that I had not been doing my remineralizing tea formula. Somehow believing that my diet would keep me free of teeth problems, which would probably be true if I was 100%. But I wasn't. So 3 weeks ago I woke up in the night with serious teeth pain. Luckily the remineralization formula worked immediatly so I went back to bed after making a very painful tea. But from then I am 100% raw, also remineralising and studying Nora's books. The hormonal problems I had 4 years ago had disappeared in the meantime (as Aajonus predicted). Have you tried drinking eggs, by making two holes one on each side and then sucking it. From which comes 'sucking eggs'. I am still looking for blenders, but I might have spotted a serious problem: in Italy the amount of electricity you are allowed to take depends ont he contract you have. Both in terms of amount per month and amount per instant. The average household uses a limit of 3kW. Shops use 6kW (or more) but costs much more, and single people in a small house with no washing machine would use 1.5kW. One of those blenders alone uses more energy than a whole italian house is allowed to pull from the system. No energetically self sufficient community would let you run your blender. Those are all thoughts that are running in my head, but today I want to see what is available at the local household appliances shop. Also AV speaks against blending eggs (although his recepy book blends them often) as it should break down the long protein chain. And this is with normal blending. I suppose if you blend it at 3kW you can as well put a bunch of carbon, hydrogen, and oxygen inside and just pour Maybe I'll wait for the next generation blenders, you know the ones you just pour gasoline inside and has a 6 horsepower engine takes from a motorbike or some small truck. Thinking about it I could link the blender to the engine of the campervan. Not electically (12volts) but mechanically !! I don't eat seed. But probably I should, and the way animals do (goats...) is by keeping in their guts to soak for some time. And often eating the bacteria that is eating the food, more than the food itself. So most of those animals are not 100% vegetarians. Some people believe that our appendicite (the last part of the small intestine that gets cut off when a person has it infected) was originally a small sack to enzymatically digest food. Makes sense. For some reason AV is strong about not using salt, probably believing that you can get the natural salt and that's enough. The problem with salt is that generally the balance of minerals is hevaily imbalanced in one sense and when it gets into the body it ends up pulling out some minerals more than adding some others. But I am not 100% without salt, as some fish that I buy have added salt as well as some raw cheese.

What about the difference between raw and not raw. I am already 100% raw (and feeling 100% wow) will I notice any improvement. BTW I know many people who eat also the seed of the apples. But not of the apricot

Very interesting description Max. I was reading yesterday Howell (the guy who studied enzymes, cited by everybody). He sais that 'it seems' (remember he is a scientist) that enzymes enter through the cell wall without breaking it apart and digesting the food inside. But of course I have no 3HP experience, I am just refering. Also it will not take digest food that the juicer discards. I wonder what 3hp blenders are available in europe.

I simply drink tap water. Never seemed to have a problem with that, or never noticed any major change when I tried anything different.

Interesting the financial situation of the third world countries is so bad that they are actually collapsing due to the interest of the debt. Essentially for each dollar the US gives there are more (about 10) that are taken away in interest. I remember reading of a help where lot's of money was allocated for a country, and essentially not one penny reached the country as they were moved from Bank A to Bank B in the same US city to cover for the growing interest of the debt. I know all this is very smoky, but if anyone is interested in the data I can contact the friend of mine who knows it all and he can fill the data in. In any case speaking about 'we are the nation that gives more' is quite ludicrous in this situation. And I speak as an Italian, being Berlusconi's Italy the nation that gives less in Europe.

Hello Peregrino, you know that you have such a good name that when I saw it I though: Fuck I should have thought of taking that 4 years ago when I started posting on internet? You ask some really good question, I will try to give you my answers. First of all Democracy is not about not having cojones, but about everybody in a society having cojones in an individual way instead of few people deciding for all. I was hearing a Beautiful talk from Paolo Rossi. It was taken from a discourse from Pericles. (starts from "Most of my predecessors"). The 2500 years old talk was censored by italian television during berlusconi because it contained strong affirmations like: "We don't use political power to fix our personal problems" and " and let every athenians grow a sense of individuality and the ability to face every situation, and this is why we never send away a stranger. And thus I declare Athene school of the Ellade (Grece)". I think a healthy democracy is able to face and overcome the growing invasion from the muslim culture. We need laws and we need them clear and respected. But not reaching such excess that are really forgetting our roots and the democratic process that happened in those countries in the last 300 years. The problem is that democracy does not scale, and from the greek deomcracy where people would discuss on the street we have reached a big amorphous democracy of people who are more or less slave of the television. Are we surprised that those people are unable to defend ourselves? But I think internet is bringing back the possibility for fruitful discussion to be there. And we should use it. I will make some examples later. I shall give you now some example that I thought were healthy way of answering: Example, think about the division of state and church. I think they got it right in France where they require no religious symbols in school. We have to be very strict about it, and stop permitting to the pope to tell us what people whould think. Clarify very well that sin and crime are different thing. As the previous generation did during ''68. In England they require an exam of english to people who want to come and live there. It doesn't seem such a bad idea, if you want to join our society you should know about our uses and costumes. Maybe let it also include something about the costitution and why do we think what we think (example the division of state and church). And we should stop refering to the division of state and church as being only an application of Jesus saying give to Caesar what is of Caesar, or we are effectively unrooting the whole concept. I am not usually in agreement with this pope. In fact I think this is the first time (but he doesn't seem to mind), but lately he decided to stop the praying together with the muslim. Saying that unless the muslim accept the division of church and state there is no common ground even to pray together. Think about the cartoon story. I think we should not have given up. No government should have say they are sorry and in case we should have closed all the embassy. It is more them wanting to keep the relations open more than us. Of course in this reasoning oil poses a problem, but their government wants the money too, so not that much. In short clarifying very well what are the base of our democracy and staying precisely on that. Accepting that this might mean to divide and polarise a bit more the world. Buut still without losing balance to try to overcome the silent invasion. People who come here will be less extreme, will not have the possibility to create so much of a sub culture and by the time they are many they will have a democratic heart. Regarding imams preaching, we don't need extra laws, we need to apply the laws that are there. Inviting people to kill is "apology of crime" and a crime in itself. Public discourses from both the extreme xenofobic right and the extreme jihadist (but also extreme left) should be recorded and offered on internet and discussed on internet and on the major newspaper. The way in which a person speaks when he knows his words will reach millions of people is different if he is speaking to only his friends. The government might even pay french philosophers and historian to explain in plain language why do we believe what we believe, how we came to believe what we believe. And as Pericles sais we should... "Not see discussion as an obstacle toward democracy." You see the leaders might be thinking about inviding, but most of the people who come here want to have democracy and want to have exchange of ideas. We should let their ideas and their uses propagate in our society and learn from them, and in this we will inevitably teach them the basis of democracy. We should not be afraid to test the strength of our ideas, because they have been filtered by generations of people discussing them. The people from Mexico who were protesting some days ago in the US want to be american. They have translated the american hymn, but the spirit of the hymn was kept in the translation. I saw the pictures of those peoples and although they were of latin origins I was amazed by how americans they seemed at first sight. This as a society. Regarding answer to Terrorists, I don't think we should consider it a war, but work against it as criminal actions, while trying to take away the ground of poverty that is feeding its plant. "Osama Bin Laden said, if we were against freedom why would we not attack Sweden". It feels starnge to think that he might be right on anything, but on this one thing I think he really is. Most of terrorism is not against our culture, is against the militar actions of our government. And the poverty that our strong economy induces. We should heal that and the symptom will disappear. Now as a Taoist. A taoist does not has a heart of his own but take his the heart of the people. We adapt to whatever culture is there. If there is slavery we keep slaves. If people don't keep slaves and marry at 38 we marry at 38. We don't have our set of values, except the value of finding our own value but still being able to live within the values of the community. So, just be like water. I hope I answered your questions. Take care, Pietro

Hmm, I don't know what should go in the main discussion and what shouldn't. But one thing I know. I never go and check the others. Is not a political position, is just that I am lazy. I also open maybe one thread out of 3 or 4. SO maybe my suggestion would be to keep everything in the same main place and then just have instead than 15 threads 50 threads. And if the community grows so much that 50 threads are not enough we might rediscuss it. But generally those systems tend to be self balancing, and when too many people post too many people have a hard time in keeping up and some just go away or post less. I have to admit that some time ago I wished for some space to be there for diet (and I would have put the deodorant thread there, for example), and since I am now discovering that there are quite some people who have practiced things derived from Bruce work a space for that. But then I wouldn't even go and check those threads when it becomes clear that people are not posting there regularly. In the HT they divided into three categories that are so all importnat that you really can't miss any. But as a mater of fact I am still using the old version because I find boring to have to check in 3 pages instead of in one. Maybe giving to a lot of people the possibility to move threads (like if it was a wiki) then things would be so fluid that we would have to check all the threads just to find where the hell had that one thread we were following gone

You know one of the things that I like when I go to south east asia are the smells. Here it all seem so aseptic.

Happened to me too. Not exactly to be called in the boss office, but to have the clear sensation (and knowledge of gossips) that my odor was disturbing people. But at the time I was living in a campervan so I could wash much less, but also the fact of having raw food around me.

I too don't use deodorant, and I am in a raw food diet. I am not sure if I smell, but I do think so. I just try to wash, but of course I don't live in a desert. I remember a person at last Bruce workshop being very surprised that I eat so much meat. She said she was usually able to smell the stink from people eating meat and couldn't with me. But when I dance in the evening I do smell: eau de fromage or eau de bastard, depending on what my body needs.

All this is very interesting. I am surprised people are getting so much from Bruce DVD. I find his CDs (2) on breathing outstanding. I also bought the Video which I think is the same as the DVD, saw it one time and found it less good. Basically it was bits and pieces from the lesson. But the CDs are really something Essentially are 24 lessons, each of a few minutes, that goes through all the process. It is so deep that I have reached lesson 6 and am at the time there. You are also supposed to go through all the lessons two times. The first time just learning the phisical breathing, and the second time (after you have reached lesson 12) learning the 'mind' stuff. Each time you will need to repeat the same lesson as many times as it is needed. By the time you reach lesson 24 you are supposed to have developed a 20 or 30 seconds breath (I don't remember) and then having the tools to extend it further. Some students claim minutes. SO I would say, get ALSO the CD.

Would this also be true if the dollar would not be the currency of the world? After all Argentina DID collapse economically, and Italy is going in that direction, so the self healing of the system obviously didn't work at least in that one case. Surely now it is a great time to buy a house in rio de janeiro... still it doesn't seem to be enough. What if china produced this very strong asian currency, and the euro started to be the currency of choice to buy and sell petrol.

Yes, there is a serious risk that Italy will have to quit/ be thrown out of the EU. This is how bad berlusconi was. And it is the reason why I asked my friend in the first place financial questions. I wanted to know if it was safe to keep money invested in Italy or should I instead buy Bonds from other countries. You see Italy is really following the way defined by Argentina. If Berlusconi had won the elections again I would have got out of the boat, but as Prodi won who is in my opinion much better and way more Euro aimed whe might actually recover. And yes, each country have it's own debt, but being in Europe requires that a country keeps its debt within certain values. Italy failed this this year. Still I don't think Italy quitting is enough for the whole Europe to collapse. But in this regard it is more interesting the vote on the European constitution that was done little time ago in some countries (depending on the law of the individual country, the procedure was diffferent). It is interesting because France voted against and this slowed down unification a lot. You see no one wants his culture to be destroyed, and we are dealing often with new laws that define traditional ways as unsafe. The italian cheese with worms is now no longer inside EU health standards. People are allowed to make food from a region and then label it as if it was from another region..., And on Italian highway people need to keep the light of the car on even in daytime because is sweden... (in sweden!!!) that's the law and we need to standardize with them. When I was in Amsterdam my gf was against europe and I could not see why. Now I can.

Very interesting, thanks. I was speaking just one month ago with an american who come from a wealthy family involved from more than one generation in finance. I asked him about the possibilities of american collapsing because of china owning so many dollars. He said if china where to try to make america economy crash america would just pass one law forbidding importation from jobs that don't have some minimum wage/laws/respect for the workers and all china import would collapse too. Now, I know that both china and america are in the wto. And my understanding is that such a law is against the rules of the wto. Still I don't think it would stop america. They have ignored international economical treatise (ref to medicines) before forcing everybody to rewrite them not to show that those rules are a fake, so...? But the idea of china trying to get a different currency makes a lot of sense. I remember a very interesting article that would describe the war in Iraq in terms of currency. After all Iraq was selling oil in Euro. And Venezuela and Russia could switch too. This would have made the dollar much less needed in international market, permitting every nation to free all the dollars they have in their tresury, and using it back to buy things in america. And of course the reason why american economy is generally going down it is also at the root of why the euro keeps raising. Europe is not doing that much good, but america is really collapsing economically at this point. I mean, when Berlusconi was trying to be reelected he made some big posters that he placed all around the town. It is generally agreed that italian economy has never been so ill. Basically we had NO raise of the GDP at all. 0. If we were trying to attein sustainability that would make sense, but Berlusconi is as green as Bush, so... So back to Berlusconi posters, in some of those he presented the average salary when he came to power and when he left, and the ads showed that the average salary had INCREASED!? And everybody went nuts? Increased, how come, and we feel all more poor. Then they looked at the ads better, and the average salary was not expressed in euro but in dollars. And if you make the exchange of euro to dollars with the historical rate, and the modern rate... well the average salary had actually DECREASED in euro. So by giving it in dollars, he could give a raising figure instead of a lowering figure. But people are buying things in euro, not in dollars. You know what does this mean, right? It means that italian economy was going bad and not good during those 5 years... but that american economy was even worse. And knowing how bad is italy in this moment, man, that's really something! Or it is all a strategy from bush to try to keep the dollar law to get more turism, more export... it would make sense. In any case the good news is that the debt of third world countries is in dollars, so if the dollar will stop being valuable, they are getting automatically our of debt.

No offense taken at all. It happens pretty commonly, and I (we) normally keep our mouth shut. But in this case it fitted well. After all you asked what was wrong with the US and I thought the problem is in the government and the root of the government is in the people and in this attitude. I was just giving a feedback. Lozen, how long have you been in other countries? Where you living there or being a tourist (or something else)? Thanks.

Sorry. Let me rephrase it, I kind of put all the crimes under the same hat: things that made people go away. The one reason that enough would have made him fall regardless of anything else. The crimes he made, the way he treated people, the whole thing made sure that anybody with a spark of creativity and money, left. At that point the technological jump happened somwhere else. And if the war wasn't already won by that time it would have made sure Germany would have been history. And of course the crimes placed also America in the position that if they had to use the bomb it would not be have been a political problem. I am not making here a moral statement, but a practical one. If a person has a gun and reason (true or believed) that he needs to use it, and a morality that let him do it, on someone else who has no gun (ok exception made of the creator of Aikido), the other is probably dead. Well Hitler by acting like he did made sure that the technological jump happened somwhere else. And before German war technology was among the best. The machine guns of WWII of Germany would fire more bulletts without jamming than even modern machine guns. But there is something on how the military is grounded in society. And society in creativity that made germany eventually fall behind in something more important. Does this sounds better? Pietro