findley

by the way... ...what authentic daoist teachers in China? ...Do you have any contact information you're willing to share.... ...If they're authentic, would they really be teachers? also, who is bringing whom? Shouldnt the trip be made on their own accord? hehehe of course if there is an asshole like the above guy who needs to have a teacher there is always going to be an asshole willing to be his teacher, eh I'm sorry, I couldnt resist

Hey, walker I feel that I have to employ a good deal moer tact in the 'actual world', instead of just this forum, because the consequences of my 'behavior' within this forum, at worst, might only lead to my being banned from the forum. Also,I can control my presence on an internet forum. In real life, consequences are much more 'real', and drawn out... so I have to be careful about what I say and do, and really think things out. TTC philosophy, (humility, non-action, [or at least their pretense] are certainly excercised in this respect...) I do realize that using my last name is a foolish thing to do, but... for some reason... I am just too lazy to change it.... -- In regards to my chinese study... yes, I am a beginner. I have a long road to walk. -if I find, after years of intense study, that I was carrying along with me many misconceptions? I would be quite pleased with myself =) That is the fruit of the study, eh? I don't know what 'P'o' and 'Hun' are in pinyin.................... --- " What would qualify them for the honor? Telling you you have already gotten it all figured out?" -It might help !!! hsahashhaahaha !! ------------ saluki-- Maybe it carries the wrong connotations, 'beyond good and evil'.... perhaps that is a state reserved for Hun.... P'o, maybe it is best said, "see's" through good and evil? 'understands' it.... is capable of being 'wise' about it? why do you ask....?

Lucky7strikes, I don't understand your point. I dont think that I have developed an 'excuse' to behave any which way I 'can'-- but merely feel that I am developing a sense of freedom in action, in being, and therefore will react in myriad ways to myriad circumstances. I don't think that there is a 'set' of characteristic traits one can attribute to an enlightened individual. I like to think that he is capable of behaving any which way he pleases at any given time, and that includes a capacity to react 'badly'. Maybe you can be a little more specific about how I am 'way off'? --- Stig, I think the conclusion you are coming to is... absolutely ridiculous. In the real world, I have to employ a good deal more tact in my social situations. In regards to this internet forum, such tact is unnecessary and so I don't bother to employ it. You are somewhat right, that I would (like to think,) that I would still be behaving in any which way I please. Another good point to make, is Ilikely wouldnt have to deal with **** like blasto and this other guy in my forum. As long as no one tries to assert any sort of dogmatic influence over me, I am likely not to get very annoyed. hmm ***************************** <-- This post has been edited by moderators as it was in violation of forum guidelines: * Insulting other members * Negatively charged and personally attacking terms * Excessive use of profanity The Moderating Team -->

I addressed this concept of a 'Benevolent Taoist'-- perhaps you can respond to my actual objection? "Appeal to Authority" is a logical fallacy. I might seek collaboration with 'full-out cultivators from china', but the real answer to the question, is that, yes, you are the final authority on the matter. -Did I take anything you said out of context? No, I didn't. Does anybody know how to read anymore?? We are using the same word, 'virtue', here ithat mean two different things. wu-wei is Virtue, (capitalized, in accordance with tao,) and when it is lost, there is (worldly,) virtue. worldly virtue is the quality of virtue wherein benevolence is even possible. When one is beyond duality, beyond good and evil, beyond phenomenal discrimination, one is beyond worldly virtue. beyond benevolence. My P'o follows this taoist wisdom, and therefore I earn for myself freedom in action., freedom from dogma, freedom from guilty conscience. -what life would be like if it was lived strictly through the Hun soul? Well, it wouldnt be 'life'................... ***************************** <-- This post has been edited by moderators as it was in violation of forum guidelines: * Insulting other members * Negatively charged and personally attacking terms * Excessive use of profanity The Moderating Team -->

I know exactly what you're going through. I wouldn't advise you to 'tackle the problem head on', but rather much more indirectly. cultivate yourself. Make something out of yourself, and these things you complain about will change on their own accord. I chose philosophy, meditation, and weight-lifting-- and am going from zero to hero. ...because as it stands, you probably are a loser... but you can fix that. with hard work and character. good luck =)

I think you're all over-complicating things

hmmm, this is why i am studying Chinese-- to clear up these kinds of misconceptions, (from translation.) if you read the book, you would understand that Te refers more to 'wu-wei' than it does to benevolence, or 'virtue' as we typically understand it in the west. Off the top of my head; "when tao was lost, there was benevolence'. I know I could find many other examples to prove my point.

hahaha -- you're not kidding? -Who is to determine what is false and deviant? -you? -what are 'true Benevolent Daoist teachings'? I mean, not only did you write 'benevolent', but you capitalized it? Have you read the TTC before? I think it is a good place to start, looking for genuine taoist philosophy.

Gosh; I can't believe I caught myself reading through all this stupid bullshit

Hey Drew, I am sorry to come down hard on you. You appear to maintain a degree of discipline far surpassing mine-- and if you are honest and not psychotic, I actually admire you. I have only just lately, and am still stepping into, the realization that Taoism isnt about energetic cultivation, or even immortality, but rather simply learning to 'walk the tao'. People who perpetuate energetic cultivation as being the 'heart' of taoism, I think pollute and destroy this secret. learning to walk the Tao is a much more subtle 'cultivation'-- but its degree of subtlety is matched only by its all-engrossing character. I look forward to reading that interview later P.S. -Mal you are such a cocksucker

When I learned how to dumpster dive, I was taught never to eat things like meat, eggs, and pizza. Then again, I never depended upon it, so I guess you know what you're doing. 'watch cable in full lotus' BULLSHIT !!!! BULLSHIT !!! You cannot practice genuine meditation watching TV-- it 'funnels' your mind, -preventing it from expanding. funny how you reject society and yet watch television? why should you want to reject society at all in the first place? GOD you know you fucking KILLED me, but you are so full of shit ! Even if you do have amazing qi-powers, this is a far stretch from enlightenment. You sound like a complete loser. Why don't you get a good job or something? -still living with your parents? god... I cant believe that =p I mean, so even if you do have amazing qi powers, your life sucks and you likely have no concept of 'enlightenment'.

If this is true, drew deserves highest respect... ..but it just doesnt settle right with me. Mayhaps it is some sort of jealousy, (of so much success,) but this just does not settle well with me...

Yes, I spent last semester pursuing private study into Nietzsche. Of course, I was interested in in any correlations between Nietzschean and Taoist thought. First, if you are learning Nietzsche by means of quotes, you are wrong. If you are expressing Nietzsche by means of quotations, you are still wrong. Aphorisms are fine, if you want to 'jump from mountain-top to mountian-top', but if you are trying to summarize his philosophical points with quotations... guess what... you are wrong. The strongest correlation between Nietzschean and Taoist thought... drum-roll... get ready for it.......... anti-dogmatism. Both philosophies are anti-dogmatic. (simple eh? did you miss it? ) hmm, I could make another strong point but my arms ache from working out, and I am sitting at a meal. Why dont you ...uhm... read his books. in their entirety. and well; word-for-word, sentence-by-sentence? if you dont understand his points, read again. I read geneology of morals a few times. If you want to having a working knowledge of Nietzsche's work, you should too. lazy ass.

Hmmm, I may be able to help a bit, afterall, Stigweard. I have something else in mind. First, how many of you are spitting out these opinions, with your feet, (maybe at least one,) planted onto the TTC? -none? You can read the Tao Te Ching. In multiple, multiple translations. This is all you have needed all along. (the way is simple, yet people prefer devious path-ways.) The secret is in that book. How about: the biggest 'challenge' facing 'western' taoists, are 'eastern' traditions, and 'lineages', (dare I say, 'culture'?) Tao supercedes these things; such things belittle tao. When there is a 'real' Taoist backed-up and certified by some 'lineage', then doesnt that create the 'fake' taoist dynamic? Doesnt it create the idea, that you cannot be a taoist on your own, without the help of some 'master' who has personally recieved spiritual gifts and tutelage from some other ascended master? Thats all fuckign bullshit, and THAT is the biggest obstacle to so-called 'western' taoism, because it creates a means by which we lose confidence in our capacity to discover Tao for ourselves. as individuals. anyways, I would probably use these points, (amongst a few others, I am sure ) in a paper with this sort of theme. be sure to utilize the philsoophy of the tao Te Ching, dude. (tehhhh ) I mean, come one. Tao is noisy. if you think you need silence to find it, you're lost. =p again, no one ever reads the Tao te Ching. maybe shoot for chuang tzu for help. he has one passage, where he calls a pile of dogshit 'tao'. it was a good point...

hey Stig-- OH SHOOT !!!! you're writing this because we need to apply for invitation to the summit??? hey, do you mind if I save these points I just made for my own paper???? :wacko: ergg, I am contacting the organization, (thank for the contact information,) so hopefully I will get word on how to complete the application process myself-- in which case I may very well use just these points. Let me know, ok?

WHOAOAAAA !!! I AM SO THERE !!! HOW EXCITING !!! THIS IS SO AWESOME !! I'LL GOOGLE IT RIGHT NOW !! hey !! can anyone give me any contact information, (JessinChina??)) THANK YOU SO SO SO SO SO SO SO MUCH for posting this !!!!!!!!!!!

regarding the question of Objectivity, Nietzsche insisted that it was a faulty concept-- and that the closest thing to, was by adopting, (not just merely understanding,) myriad points-of-view. This may perhaps be one explanation for his apparant contradictory nature

hahahaha !! Did I hit a sweet spot, sucker ??? I know that if you did read the majority of his published work, with any serious degree of comprehension, you would relay a valid understanding of his philosophy ! You accuse me of reading only second-hand literature, and however completely ungrounded and un-true such an accusation is, it is I who has to correct your error ! hahaha 'be ashamed' ! Do you think you can prop up your imaginary understanding of Nietzsche's philosophy with a single implication of understanding?? one right doesnt right two, three, four wrongs !!!! -You know, I think I might head over to Bai yun Guan this sunday and roll my eyes and some old dudes !!!! -just for fun !!! waaahahahaa !!! Look how foolish you have become because I (just had to) take from you this crutch you use to support your ego ! If you want to support your intellect and self-image with nietzsche's philosophy, I suggest you do better to understand it !! -Otherwise, I did the same thing when I was younger

YOU ARE SO STUPID DUDE ! Ok, Zarathustra was supposed to be the 'john the baptist' of the superman-- and we were supposed to learn much from him. But the fictional content of this fictional characters 'life', (ie. 'he came down from the cave to share his wisdom',) does not mean that anyone who comes down from caves to share their wisdom is 'nietzschean'. Do you want to know how I know you're dumb? That you don't understand Nietzsche? HE WASNT AN ANARCHIST !!!! NO HE WASNT !!! IF YOU READ HIS BOOKS YOU WOULD SEE HOW HE CRITICIZES ANARCHY AND SO-CALLED 'FREEDOM-THINKERS'!!!!! IF YOU HAD ANY GRASP AT ALL ON NIETZSCHE'S PHILOSOPHY YOU WOULD PROBABLY REMEBER HE FAVORED HERO-WORSHIP ! FIGURE THAT OUT, POLITICALLY ! I know it is nice to think you have a grasp on Niettzsche's work. The thing is, rivergazer, you kinda-sorta have to EARN it. havent figrued me out yet... what are you, 16? -think you understand Nietzsche because you read most of Zarathustra? pfft

hahahahhahahahahhaa marblehead !! Are you serious?? what-the-fuck-ever, dude !!!!! No, No, beecause you can stretch some shallow 'similiarities' between river gazers 'poetry' and living biography of the character, zarathustra, does not at all make river-gazers post 'nietzschean'. (I mean, are you serious??) When your apply the term 'neitzschean', you're implying that theactual philosophical connotations are, at least, compatible. lol I, guess, to be more clear: the philosophical connotations of nietzsche's work, as a whole-- if I wasnt too clear above

'so nietzschean'? How so? ...please coherence is a virtue

One of the things i want to do is overcome emotions. This means I do not want to emphasize 'positive' emotional experiences, and that I should also accept freely 'negative' experiences. I do not necessarily want to believe that the sage is without emotion. The ego is the gateway of experience in our corporeal, every-day existence. It should not be dissolved; rather, in 'overcoming' emotions, they flow freely (with the Yi; any plateau is not worth merit,) and allow one to experience flux without clinging attachment. I know it is nice to be happy, confident, etc; but to truly be free to be angry, to be, even to be malicious sounds to me much more truly in-line with Tao. Our egotistical existence is defined by flux, and I would be a fool to train and repress my ego to conform to some 'moral code' or 'ethic of behavior' or being something 'characteristic of enlightenment.' Of course this is strictly applied to P'o; to cultivate Hun by means of the Mysterious Pass will of course lead to a passive, if-not-completely-lacking-in-temperament=at-all-whatsoever kind of demeanor. I want to assure everyone who reads my posts, of oen thing: that I am genuinely looking for genuine enlightenment. This, first and foremost, despite my apparant behavior on an internet forum, should be how I should be respected. So, for all those fools who do not know how to react, let alone understand, to my average behavior on this forum: go fuck yourselves. -And if you dont think that there are repercussions for doing all of this with my real last name, let me assure you, there are. And I will be damned if I do not do it anyways-- I will not allow for temporal obstructions from discouraging me in my own, private, pursuit of enlightenment. I will always choose to be free, and therefore conform only perchance-- not because of worldly discouragement from worldly people.

I started reading Cleary's Opening the Dragon Gate yesterday... will be good reading material for the trip to Beijing today/tomorrow. I am interested, but even somewhat dubious and disappointed. I don't appreciate the 3 masters' 'training' methods for young Liping, and already I have run across some interesting metaphysical ideas presented by these taoists. and then, I went on a date with a new girl, who got my high on some excellent marijuana, as a going away gift. I had these revelations, later, sitting in quiet... I'd like to run them by the Bums here for critical response. ...That modern taoists in modern china are probably running a highly secretive 'side' of things, behind the baloney of such books as 'opening the dragon gate'. I even wonder, because wang li-ping is supported by the government, if it is possible that wang li-ping is government supported perpetuation as a modern living legend. I've also decided that when I meet such 'enlightened' folks, (I plan to meet wang li-pings students for guides, if not wang li-ping himself?) I should treat them in highest, dubious scrutiny. When I speak, I think I should like to do nothing more than quote the Tao Te Ching at them. In this way, I should earn highest respect as a genuine student of the way. I would like to remind mr. wang that he is the 18th generation lineage holder of the dragon-gate sect of the northern (/southern??) school of the TAO. I will have to remind anyone I meet that I am not looking for a master, but for TAO-- as I am rather in genuine pursuit of awakening to Tao-- and in such pursuit I shall trust no one more so than myself. I should not venerate anyone as a master, or a sage, but rather as an equal. I guess this is expressing a desire for help, and not some baloney student-master relationship. I also look forward to sharing my personal revelations regarding metaphysical theory extracted from I Ching theory-- and hold their metaphysical postulations against it... see how they respond. I'm looking for a sage-- not a master. ...you know? Anyways, I am not going to allow myself to be another piss-ant kiss-ass who will believe whatever he is told. I am going to do my best to cling to the sagacity of the Tao Te Ching, and in this way not so much ASK for help, but EXPECT it by portraying a more-than-adequate understanding of the most basic, primal, taoist wisdom. Anyways, this is all what I decided thinking about it last night; I was so high. I don't think I am going to choose to humble myself, but rather approach them with as little 'self' as possible... which may come across as offensive to them, because it means that there isn't going to be an abundance of awe and respect. (if that makes sense.) what do you guys think about this approach?

Blasto, you are a monster. 'three poisens''sit in the wheel of life' 'buddhist psychology' ?? you are so fucking stupid, man. You are such a hhuge hypocrite, in ways you obviously dont understand for yourself. Your dogmatic attitude is repulsive. It feels good to hate you. You arethe ultimate scum walkingm (or thinking you may be walking,) the path.

well. It is better than blasto-- who uses the facade of behavior to assert a sense of superiority. (doesn't even seem to know it.) otherwise................. ..... =p I guess I'm done =p thanks