findley

I read the penguin classic version, translated by D.C. Lau. I've read many, but this one is my favorite. There was an older penguin version... forgot who wrote it... but it actually reversed the two sections of the book, 'tao' and 'te'... it was pretty shitty all-round. NOT that one.

ehhh I respect spring forest but I dont think its quite my bag... thanks though

whooaaaa stigweard that is a loud signature 'Highest virtue is not virtuous' 'when the dao was lost, there was benevolence' 'good men are the teachers of the bad; the bad learn from the good' (something like that, anyways,) 'the world recognizes the good for the good, yet this is only the bad' dogmatists are the creators of all wrong action.

Maybe that's why (or one reason why,) the Dalai Lama is such a loser-- preaching loving-kindness to earn sympathy with the western world, instead of cultivating buddha-hood. Considering the absolutely temporal nature of psychological states, I have seen some pretty ugly snapshots of (yes, even,) the dalai lama. Even he has not perfectly embodied the psychological-state of loving kindness. Because it's impossible. His loving-kindness only exists in relation to it's opposite. A concept virtually everyone fails to understand. You fools who insist that enlightenment is indicated by a plateau at specific psychological states really make me sick. Look, I understand the amplification effect of kundalini. Well. But I am trying to relay the idea that it is a mistake to emphasize certain feelings; to 'lock yourself into yourself,' by intentionally cultivating specific psychological states. (yes, even the good ones.) I am trying to tell you that emphasizing such cultivation is actually a backwards turn from the pursuit of genuine enlightenment. Really, I like my previous metaphor: that cultivating such things as love, confidence, and happiness is like eating cheeto's. And, Markern, guess what? I'm too smart to be a buddhist. Please, cram your 'right-speech' 'right-up' your ass. I'll tell you what: buddha wasnt a buddhist. why dont you forget that BS religious literature? PS really, I think you would be a fool to believe that what I write into an internet forum was at all truly indicative of my over-all personality. I think that much of my contempt in this world is directed at people like you who would sooner teach 'right-speech' than genuine cultivation. I only hesitate on this one point: that because I have not awaken my kundalini and become a super-human energetic circuit, I cannot say whether or not such arousal leads indirectly to enlightenment. I only assume that such is not the case, because mr. morris and 'santiago' are still teaching the cultivation of psychological states. (and further, 'santiago', however willing to promote dr. morris' 'essay', has chosen not to defend it against my assertions. [was I so hot-headed at my first inquiry...])

Just, nevermind.

OK, look, I will try and spell it out to you imbeciles-- because you cannot be expected to be wise on your own: "The whole world recognizes the beautiful as the beautiful, yet this is only the ugly; the whole world recognizes the good for the good, yet this is only the bad. ...Before and after follow eachother." "Heaven and Earth are ruthless, and treat the myriad beings as straw-dogs; the sage is ruthless and treats the people as straw-dogs." "Heaven and Earth are enduring. The reason why Heaven and Earth can be enduring, is that they do not give themselves life. Hence, they are able to be long-lived. Therefore, the sage puts his person last, and finds it comes first, treats it as extraneous to himself, and finds that it is preserved. Is it not that he is without thought of self, that he is able to accomplish his private ends?" "The five colors make man's eyes blind; the five notes make his ears deaf; the five tastes injure his palate. Ridig and hunting make his mind go wild with excitement; Goods hard to come by hinder his progress. Hence, the sage is for the belly, not the eye; he discards one for the other." -These are quotes from within only the first 15 chapters of the Tao Te Ching. (I'm nto making a writing project out of this, for you morons who fail to read and understand. Manipulating the psychological states, (of course, rooted in the 5 elements, [see last extract,]) will lead you no-where. What fool should imagine, that confidence, love, happiness will lead to enlightenment? -- or even begin to lead the way ?! Good and bad lie in eachother's wake-- what fool seeks to find enlightenment in the good ?! Enlightenment is a state that lies OVER the self. Should you lock yourself INTO yourself by emphasizing this fantasized worth of the emotions-- leads one AWAY from enlightenment. (even if you do make yourself smile !) You fools need to realize, that the 'buddha' 'within' you lies as well outside of you; and is in fact independent of the psychology ! Morris may have the power to slap me an Ol' Chum on the back-- and put me into convulsions-- maybe-- but even this is not truly indicative of enlightenment ! If you promote these practices, do not call yourself a 'Taoist', a 'buddhist', or a devout aspirant of the Way; you are a fool fad-cultivator, with no concept of enlightenment ! Energy practice is not the road to enlightenment: "Rather than fill it to the brim by keeping it upright better to have stopped in time; hammer it to a point and the sharpness cannot be preserved for ever; there may be gold and jade to fill the hall but there is none who can keep them. To be overbearing when one has wealth and position is to bring calamity upon oneself. To retire when the task is accomplished is the way of Heaven." So-- please-- ! edited for profanity...moderator

I think I understand-- thank you

LOOK While 'santiago' and mr. morris share their concepts about being happy what of the concept of enlightenment ? While you guys promote the worth of feel-good emotions you prove to me you have no concept or yearning for enlightenment. The secret smile is like eating cheeto's When you should be sinking your teeth into some meat. I damn the junk-food vendor !

HAH yeah, Mal, I meant it too ! leave me alone ! I think you may have a crush on my personality. Maybe I can make a special trip to australia, and I will... ! In the meantime, you will have to ... you are such a loooooser mal ! If people come to me in the future, it wont because I am some lubby-dubby ... like yourself geez get a clue --unless you can answer santiago's question for him? I mean... do you have the capacity to address directly the content of my post, or can't you see past my big dick? (I'm just kidding. I wouldnt ...) edited for aggressive profanity...Moderator

hah, yeah. Though, I might respect those who worship kitchen gods, moreso than those claim qigong and alchemical formulas leading to immortality. thanks, man

what a dummy thread ! ! I want to know, why is this 'happy' 'lovey' 'orgasmic' smile meditation, which is apparantly and obviously only a direct manipulation of psychological states, -at all an indication of enlightenment?? There are deeper concepts, it is my opinion, that are to be regarded for serious aspirants of enlightenment, PS no, I didnt practice secret smile as per morris-- but as per chia. and compared to what I know now, I confidently assert it as a waste of time PS I may be obnoxious, santiago, but my words warrant their merit ! you would do well to address them. Explain yourself, and the practices you promote-- because you are influencing the minds and lives of many others !

OH ! Wow that is so super-cool interesting to hear ! I was personally assuming that Taoism would largely consist of frauds-- but even government employees for the tourists?? Yes, I know they do that sort of thing in Tibet, (for example, after the last major crack-down,) but ...wow... Hey, you know, I am hoping to find somebody in Beijing who may be able to teach me the inherent wisdom in the Tao Te Ching, and the secret of the golden flower. (I have also been learning teachings from the Complete Reality school, thanks to Cleary's translations in his 'Taoist Classics' volumes... but eh...) You know, I started a fight with a western TCM practitioner, qigong/tai chi instructor who claimed a 'master' from beijing. I paid 50 bucks to take a seminar, (I short-changed them ) with the guy... 'ping',,, and he taught an obviously corrupt interpretation of the SotGF, (I didn't realize until my recent studies...) I mean... do you have any advice, on how I might go about finding somebody in the Beijing area who might have genuinely mastered the art and wisdom of the basic, primary texts? -Any advice, at all? Thanks if you do, man

The ego should be seen as a gift-- not a curse. 'he who conquers others is strong; he who conquers himself is strongest' --or whatever

As one allows oneself to enter and dwell in the Mysterious Pass-- One must forget the desire for bliss. If you are practicing FOR bliss, then you have blinded yourself and fallen onto a disingenuine path. The mysterious pass-- it is 'without flavor'. Never try to intentionally cultivate bliss.

Eh, I never became a better lover for it. In fact, I think all the jerking may have de-sensitized my penis, making it alot harder to come during sex. HOWEVER, since I started doing it when I was 17-18, I do have a huge boner. I get comments from every woman-- and I have learned techniques that make me a unique lover, capitalizing on my size. So, yeah, it didn't take me too far spiritually, but it is nice have a huge cock.

Hmmm, I gave my (inferior) wilhelm translation away and kept my cleary-- so I cannot read the section you are referring to. I would encourage you to remember, however, that the practice of tSotGF is a 'living' one-- and so formal sitting and meditation methods become obsolete. You are learning to carry the practice with you throughout the day-- as you live your 'new' life. So do not over-emphasize specific techniques that are suggested to you by wilhelms translation. They are not important. Even the breath is not important-- only the cultivation of the light. these are just my opinions (-I think that this thread is rather dedicated to a corrupt interpretation of the practice, so it is important to say.)

....I'm on a lonely, broke sabbatical-- writing my book (finishing? the rough, at least,) prior to my departure to china. And as bad-ass I am, I have no one to tell, excepting this board. I AM A GENIUS. I even know this is the wrong place to do this sort of thing. I just, ... I have to shout it from the roof-tops. Many of you assholes may even own a copy of my book in the coming years. It's really coming out brilliantly. I am such a genius !!!!!!!!!!

ooh ! I love that stuff ! I am a philosophy major, really; I have studied Nietzsche to a serious extent, read quite a bit of Heidegger, and have always had a fascination with Jung's work. Haven't gotten into hegel yet. German Idealism, I believe, will be formal focus as I continue my career in philosophy. 'Phenomenology,' I believe you may be referring to, is cool-- but I don't see directly how you mean to imply that classic phenomenology should be important in my own work. Also, the works of all of these authors are all so different, I don't understand how being grounded into them should serve my efforts. You know, I was thinking about taking a break from writing and reading a good book. I was thinking Sarte's 'Being and Nothingness'.. but honestly I don't like that guy. I could re-read something else... Being and Time... maybe even study up on my plato... Schelling would be cool, but I'd have to drive all the way out to memphis... kant's out of my league.... You have any suggestions, man? I'm heading out to my local library tomorrow to browse there collection... lol-- you got me all excited. I really am forcing myself to finish up this book, and I am making it suck for myself. I'm looking forward to getting back into a good book PS -- I have had to backtrack and CAN alot of my material that was developed out of my fascination for Nietzsche. I had some great idea's, and it was cool struggling to implicate them into my theories-- but backtracking was a good idea. It is too easy to run with a fascination with the giants. ...though, if I could have ever pulled off a teleology of the individual and NWO rooted in chaotic determinism (ever get into Katya walters?), I would have been remembered for all time yes, I am often manic

"the reason is because my qigong training was based on celibacy but I was being attacked by females -- young -- old -- sucking me off in public -- going crazy for my stored up sex energy." no way dude. I thought I got laid often enough-- but getting sucked off in public you are a god

Thanks SKF = 'Sexual Kung Fu" -- mostly just jerking off and trying to bring the sexual energy up into your body-- particularly parts of the brain and 7th chakra. I practiced it for hundreds, hundreds of hours. Cool consequences, but ultimately nothing 'real'. (that's a lot of jerking off, man. )

The constructive criticism inherent in your message belies a good deal of wisdom, Hyok. --However, I wonder if there is an implicit degree of pessimism. Is it, intentionally, part of your point to dismiss the possibility of enlightenment, (whatever that word entails?) -That my attempt to discover a higher sense of being is folly and impossible? I'll be the first to admit that I am largely confused, but also the first to express the opinion that perhaps I am discovering something-- different than energetics, than SKF; unfolding the secret of the cultivation of a primordial spirit. That words and concepts are confusing along the way should come as no surprise. ...maybe you're right in your pessimism... However, I'm following it through to an end. I mean, what the fuck do you want from me, dude?

Oh, you know, it is difficult to describe minkus. In fact, I don't think I am very good at it, either. I believe that perhaps the best way to tap into it, is by first being quiet in your mind. And then... well... hmmm... You know, when I describe the mysterious pass, I often say things like, 'The center-less center' 'everywhere, and nowhere' 'everything and nothing' -and that sort of nonsense. When I read about it in certain texts, I feel like they are like koans. Zen use koans to empty the mind, ('one hand clapping' or whatever...) but I feel that by intuiting the 'formless form at the centerless center' (and not by means of my intellect, but a subtle, unexplainable 'intuition',) I feel as if I somewhat understand, in some mysterious way. Perhaps it may help, one of the things I want, is the capacity to sink into the 'mysterious pass', and 'switch' my sense of identity from my old, standard bodily ego, to that something else. a 'realignment' of my sense of identity, that will be otherwise only 'condensed' into my body-- and is in fact 'in' all of my surrounding environment that I can sense. --though I fear that in trying to do just this, one of the things I may be doing, is 'having the light, and failing to turn it around' ... so... bleh hmmm, it's difficult to talk about-- I hope you understand what I am trying to say. And remember I really am not very good =( I think I may be in the future though, with continued practice =) OK fuck you know, I was THINKING that the other day, but I don't think that is right -After quieting the mind, 'contemplating' the mysterious pass in its 'nothingness and everythingness' -ness I almost intuit a void 'behind' this manifest reality and when the two are combined the prior happens I don't know I feel so dumb

Oh, well, I was reading through the Tao Te Ching again, and was particularly influenced by a line, that the tao is 'without flavor', or something or another. It was particularly appealling to me, in that it seemed to help trigger a 'turning around' of 'the light'. Also, the TTC doesn't really seem to discuss the concept of Bliss at all-- it seems a book dedicated much more to the practice of wisdom-- and in my opinion, a genuine sort of 'enlightenment'. Why I wrote this, is whenever I try and cultivate bliss directly, I make things worse. Whenever I intentionally try to induce bliss, in whatever aspect, I feel as though I take a step backwards. So I thought I would share and see what you guys have to say about it. In regards to how bliss may affect one's capacity to dwell in the mysterious pass-- it is far too easy to cling to it ! and then, if you are genuinely seeking enlightenment, I imagine that it is a bad thing. That it may stunt your 'growth'. anyways, this is just what I am thinking. Maybe, though, bliss is actually a reasonable alternative to enlightenment? Maybe enlightenment isn't really a big deal.

Oh, I have a big head Well, no-- I cannot read or write in chinese yet. This is the primary reaon for my moving to Beijing this coming academic year. --It is, however, a book based on Idea's. In fact, it is being presented as a somewhat comprehensive philosophical system, grounded in a specific aspect of I Ching Metaphysics. However the fact that my last section is titled 'enlightenment', wherein I will discuss implications for enlightenment, I dare not say that I have achieved such a state. However, I would like to express the notion that, perhaps, philosophy grounded on 'experience' is actually less valid that that which is grounded solely on decent philosophical basis. (ie I have read a few books written by the 'enlightened'-- or those who claim to be.) Hopefully, the idea's should speak for themselves. I am still finishing up the rough-draft, (skeleton-form,) of the treatise-- it will be some, some time before I am even going to consider looking for publishment. Likely around the end of the fall semester, after this one.(in this respect, I regret bringing it up )

kunlun is an ENERGY PRACTICE that serves only to enhance the TEMPORAL SELF. PROMISES given by kunlun advocates BLIND others from achieving ENLIGHTENMENT-- only tempting the practitioner with ENHANCEMENTS OF THE TEMPORAL SELF. one must learn to recognize the MYSTERIOUS PASS, and to carry it with them throughout the day. Dwelling in the ATEMPORAL is the only means to enlightenment. YES ! SEE GHOSTS ! ENHANCE YOUR BODILY PRESENCE ! BECOME A 'BEING OF LIGHT' ! -don't you see, these are only TEMPORAL TEMPTATIONS ?! I promise you, you want to practice to attain ENLIGHTENMENT. It is infinitely more 'correct' than practicing to attain a 'light body' ! -Learn to recognize the mysterious pass! carry it with you through the day ! THIS is true evolution !