shaolin

As God is unlimited and does not share any limiting attriubtes, God is incomprehendible. To see something or to be able to analyse something, we would need to measure it in some way or another. If a thing can be meausred , then it is limited and can not be the unlimited God. We can get to the understanding of the existance of God through deduction buy looking at what exists around us and the fact that they are not able to create themselves or anything else. So there must be One unlimited thing to create them in the first place, because limited things are not able to do that. Matter can not create its self or anything else, thats a fact. Matter is as small as a sub atomic particle, of which everything else is made. To have a beginning or end or to be contained in time or space are all limitations and can not be applied to something that is unlimited. So the unlimited is beyond having a beginning or end and or being contained in time or space. Something beginningless can not be created.

Matter can not be created. everything is matter or depends on matter. Everything is limited and limited things can not create themselves or anything else. Matter cant create its self or anything else. Create means to come in to existance from nothing at all. So how did everything come in to existance? There must be only ONE unlimited thing that is unlike everything else that which are limited to create the matter to begin with. Limited = anything with a beginning, an end, a height, shape, width, weight or can be measured in anyway or depends on anything else. Unlimited = without even one of the qualities of limited. Create = to come from nothing. God is unlimited, Tao is a description that can not describe God but is sometimes used to but always misses the mark. God is singular, and not an idol made of matter , nor a human made of matter which are limited. have a look at previous posts on limitless and can anything create its self or anything else.

Me too, it sounds great

If these problems were causd by retention, then maybe he could try to totally exhaust his energy. Frequent ejaculations every day combined with running every day and weights training. This might be a way to re balance the imbalance he has at the moment. When you train very hard, you exhaust yourself to the point that you dont have energy for anything else, including extreme feelings and emotions.

Cool. Let's see what happens.

gj551, Im with you on the 100 days. Good luck!

Jesus had 12 disciples according to Christianity. why do we not have accounts for all 12, but we do for people who never even saw Jesus? The Bible is one of , if not The most corrupted book ever. Even the most recent one "The newely revised king James version" is heavily edited by King James who alterd it to suit his own aims. Its been altered by many powerful leaders before him too , such as Constantine The Great who was a Roman pagan who altered christianity and used it to seal his authority with "Devine authority". It was heavily influenced by ancient roman paganism which he allowed to prevent rebellion in the Roman empire. It was also edited and altered by Jerome and at Nicea and by Marcius even before that. Its all based on the authors being "inspired by God", but that leaves the door wide open. Who decides who is inspired? Can people still be inspired today and alter the bible as it is now? Did Jesus say who was inspired? Thats why Paul can write what he wants about a man he never met, and who is not present to defend these claims. Pure corruption.

The idea of original sin is full of contradictions as is the Bible from where it originates. The Bible is a selection of writings by unknown authors and has been complied and re compiled several times.The council of Nicea being the main moment of selecting what should be rejected and what should be included in "The bible". It even contains letters from one person to another ie Paul to Timothy and then it is claimed that this is the Word of God. If this is not blasphamy then I dont know what is, especially given the fact that Paul was originally called Saul and he used to hunt followers of Jesus and kill them. He then saw "the light" and became a christian himself and made new additions to the bible and quotes sayings of Jesus when he never met him in his life. He then introduces the notion of God being a human, and three in one whilst before him and through out the whole of the Old testament God was One. Ok , the bible says Adam and Eve comited a sin and were punished and now every descendant of Adam and Eve are guilty and being punished for sins that they didnt commit. The punishment is that man must work for his sustinance and get it from the sweat of his brow and that women will suffer great labour pain during child birth. Now we are all sinners and are punished in the same way, even though we didnt commit that original sin. Is this a just loving God? Then, the only way to be forgiven is to believe we are sinners and that to be forgiven God had to have a son, who was actually God on earth and he had to die on a cross, or was it a tree? while the god in heaven was watching and he didnt want to do it and asked for the "burden to be lifted", even though this was his purpose. And then if we believe this we are forgiven. If we are forgiven by believing this story, then why are christians still being punished? Why do they still have to work and sweat from their brow? Why do christian women still suffer labour pains? Why cant you just be accountable for your actions yourself and if you do wrong simply ask for forgiveness? Why the son dying on the cross and believing it is the only way to repent? Cant God simply forgive you when you ask? The Bible doesnt contain even one word of Jesus, who christians claim to follow. It is at best a third or fourth hand story that can not be varified. Ie an anonymous author says, Paul or Matthew says, Jesus said. Its authors want total comitment from blind faith. People are still being conned and abused to this very day.

Is there anything that is able to create its self or anything else? Create means from nothing at all to something. Manufacture means for something that already exists to become something else or to change an already existing thing in to something else. ie somone who makes a chair out of a tree has manufactured it and not created it, because to create means from absolutely nothing. Or to clone a sheep from just 1 cell or dna is to manufacture it because it started from something and not from nothing just like human life from a sperm and an egg etc. To write music or poetry or any art or thought is manufactured as it comes from something and is developed. Creation means nothing at all - something. It doesnt matter how big or small.

TzuJanLi, I understand you. Now we are moving in to what is human, what it is comprised of and who we reffer to when we say "I". Again , these are loaded words and thousands of pages have been written about such subjects dealing with what is mind? does it have a physical location ? What is the soul and where does it exist? etc etc. These are all relevant questions, but my questions were just two. is anything limitless as I defined it and can anything create its self or anyhing else, as I defined create as something from totally nothing. The soul and mind and body make a person and are all connected but are all limited and unable to create themselves or anything else. Anything that can be contained in a limited area is also limited, anything that is part of a limited thing is also limited. The next question could be, if the unlimited One created everything, why? for what reason? also why create a soul and a mind? for what reason? Has the Unlimited One contacted us and how? So many serious questions arise, but I'd rather deal with one at a time to be totally sure and factual rather than let it be just another floating idea or possiblilty. For an idea to be true, it must not be a possiblilty among other possibilities. It must be the only possibility. Then it can be the truth. eg, you are expecting a visit from your mother at 6pm and at 6pm you hear a knock on your door. Its possible that its your mother, its also possible your mother could have died and its the police. Possibilities are not absolute truth until only one remains and the others have been rationally ruled out. Leaving the one that can not be ruled out, no matter how hard one tries. If we get on to the topic of God, as being the unlimited One or Creator, then any belief that claims a limited thing or a created thing to be God would be in correct. Such as the trinity where God is also part human. How can a limitless thing be part limited? part limited means fully limited. Youre limited or limitless no in between. Ive gone way too far. I'll stop there. The question is , has this unlimited thing left and clue or reason as to why it created things? Is this totally verifiable. Doubtless and proven?

3bob, Prism, colours are all matter, and limited and matter cant create its self. TzuJanLi, I disagree when you say "the human is a freely independant aspect of Oneness". Perhaps I have misunderstood what you mean, but a human is totally dependant and is not free at all. Dependant in every way in its form as a whole , to its smallest part. Its limited in its each and every cell and can not create its self or anything else. it is made from atomic structure and elements.

If we were to define "limitless" as something without a limit and is without a height, weight, width, beginning, end, or is measurable. Does such a "thing" exist?

Please view the "can anything create ist self" thread. Everything is limited. All matter is limited thats a scientific face, simple by the structure of atoms , elements and the number of electrons and protons to each particle of matter that produce different elements. Everything that emenates from matter or relies on it is aslo therefore limited. The other thread has an observation that may be interesting.

Ok, I checked with a friend of mine who studied physics and chemistry and asked him about these particles that come and go out of existance and if they create themselves from nothing or come in and out of existance. He said that there is a principle called "Heinsberg Uncertinty Principle" which deals with the atomic level. It states that electrons dont flow in an orbit around protons and they actually wizz all over the place at great speed in different direction causing a "cloud". This cloud is like a dust cloud that can be made when a car travels at speed in a desert kicking up dust that can obscure the car from view. The "cloud" produced by the great speed that these tiny electrons cause result in a 90% chance of certinty of finding an electron in the "cloud" and a 10% chance of certinty that you wont. This means that by the time you think one is located, its already moved and may "appear" to come and go in and out of existance. At atomic level , we cant be sure of where the electrons are in this cloud , let alond in the sub atomic or sub , sub atomic levels. This is due to the sporadic, fast movement and the cloud that it produces. We cant predict where they are in time or space, meaning we cant say "this is here now". They move too fast. So we cant say if it was always there or not, or if it moved, or came in to existance. There is a Hadron Collider machine in a lab in Switzerland that accelerates particles at very high speed to fire atoms against other atoms to see the results of the collision. As previously mentioned, it is taken as a fact that "matter is neither created or destroyed" which would mean that nothing can be created in the meaning of from absolutly nothing. So many say that matter was always there. Also matter is limited. Different amounts of positivly charged protone and negitivly charged electrons linked to neutrons produce different elements like water, 02, oxygen methane, copper etc. They are limited in number and arrangement. Therefore if all matter is made from such matter then we have a conclusion. Everything is limited, limited can not create limited, so how did everything come in to existance? The only conclusion is that there must be one, unlimited thing to create the limited matter which could not create its self or any other matter. This unlimited thing has no limits, no beginning, no end, no height, no weight, no width, can not be measured and is totally self reliant, independant and incomprehendible. So we can not see it or percieve it as it is unlimited nor can we ask who created it, or what was before it. It must be beyond time and space. Please tell me what you think about this.

Thanks Apepch7, Ive read the link a few times, Im going to ask some questions to a few friends of mine who are more knowledgable than me in these areas. Its a very specific area of learning that I havent got a clue about. But this is exactly what Im after, an actual "thing" that can be studied.

Apepch7, I'd like to find out more about the small particles that bubble in and out of existance. Are they able to create themselves from nothing? or do they reveal themselves and go back in to hiding? I have no knowledge about these things at all and Im asking blind. where can I get more info? (non theoretical). Tzu JanLi, What leads you to believe that the energy that "pops" in to existance is pre existing? What exactly is this energy and what does it do? Also can energy create its self from nothing , or create anything else from nothing? I accept that it changes and is full of potential. (again from very basic knowledge). OneSeeker, no need to apologise, what you have written about the first cause and the unmoved mover is very interesting. Its like an un named limitless thing affecting the limited things. We just need to find how to get to it , if it exists.

Ive just started reading it too , and its quite confusing. Are you supposed to practice one exercise at a time , chapter by chapter or do the whole thing? on pg 18 - 19 it says that the generative force should be held for 100 days then it mentions the results of each subsequent 100 days of which there are 6! Perhaps Drew and other experienced taobums could advise on how to use the book. Any help would be appreciated.

Depending on how this thread goes and the other thread on created vs manufactured goes, I may have found a way to rationally show a limitless thing actually exists. I hope we will continue to question our ideas. And thanks for everyones input and patience, this is what makes this site so great.

Thanks guys. OneSeeker, your last post made me smile. TzuJanLi, I would describe limits as a height, weight, witdh, beginning, end or being measurable or dependant. If you "ask whats on the other side" then that is evidence of not knowing at all. Having no idea. something may be there or may not be there, but until there is evidence of something being there, then there is nothing there. Also there is no real proof of actual existance of the void. I see it as a theory and not a reality. I may be wrong, but I havent found enough proof to see it as being really there. Ive been thinking alot about what we've been exploring and I've got another question that I will open as a new topic. It is "is anything able to create its self of anything else" I'll explain my meaning of the word "creation" too. All replies should be on the new topic so we dont lead from one topic in to another on the same post. This topic of limitless should remain on this thread.

To say the void is limitless is fine, I can say the vastness is limitless too, its just a word until there is proof of its actual existance in reality. What proof is there that it actually exists. Anything that exists only in the mind is not limitless nor is it always real. It must exist outside of the mind and not contained by it or dependant on it to be limitless. I understand you OneSeeker, but it must be understood by the rational mind, or how else can it be understood ? Without rationality how can it be understood?

OneSeeker, I understand you and agree to some extent, but if we dont define things then we are not dealing with reality as we can only define what is limited. Obviously, defining the unlimited, what we are looking for is not possible, so it lookis like a contradiction. It is not a contradiction though, because we can reach the undefinable, unlimited thing, if it exists , by its attributes or power or abilities, which would be limitless. Like smoke being an indicator of fire for example. What I mean, is an empty word about something for which there is no compelling evidence of its existance is not enough. There must be total proof of the existance of such a thing, that is clear and with out doubt. Even though the actual limitless thing may be incomprehedable due to its nature of being unlimited. Being unlimited, means not being limited, but this is not a limitation. Its absolute, one or the other. Space is an area or distance between two objects and is limited for that very reason. It has a beginning and that is a limitation.

very true 3bob, thats why I defined limitless as anything with a height, width, weight, beginning, end or is measurable or dependent on something. From this point we can move forward by applying these attributes to see if such a thing exists. I know it may seem "dry" and restrictive, but without that we will end up in poetry, when we really want to find if such a thing exists. When we clear the fog and understand what these words we use really mean, we can find that they are words describing something that is unreal or non existant. We want to find an actual thing that does not have even a single limiting attribute. With such a topic its very easy to get caught up on words , I think its unavoidable.

Thanks for taking the time to explain. Its starting to get deeper and deeper! When one theory runs in to another then we go on a mind trip, thats why I try to avoid theories because they are unproven ideas. We can talk about the existance of something that may or may not exist rather than what we know actually exists in reality. I know Im using unqualified loaded words like "reality" but you know what I mean. I'd like to find an actual thing that exists that does not have a beginning, end, height , weight, width or is measurable or dependent on anyithing else. Just one of these qualities is a limitation. Thats why if the world is made up of limited things and the universe contains these limited things as part of it, then it is limited. Even if only in one small way, but it is limited in many more ways than that. The absence of oxygen or gravity is also a limitation. I understand , as we have already seen in previous posts , that something unlimited is beyond human comprehension, but we should still be able to be sure of its existance if it really exists. Sure meaning knowing rationally and without doubt, that it is actually there. At least by its attributes which should be exclusive to it and not to anything else. Im gonna take it easy, I feel insanity creeping in!

TzuJanLi, thanks for your explanation. I understand a bit more about what the void is. Can it be percieved without death? If I cant percieve it, then its not part of my reality and doesnt exist to me. How do we know that it actually exists? Marblehead, the universe is mad up of totally limited things, so if its made up of limited things it cant me limitless. Also it is expanding, which requires a limit. Without a limit, it would not need to or be able to expand. Also the universe is said to have had a beginning. Obviously, these points are not 100% because they are scientific theories, that I have not experienced nor do I have great knowledge of , so it could be one theory against another, but this is what they say at the moment. But I'd like to hear a bit more about "absolute nothingness" and how it differs or relates to "the void".

Peace & Love!