yugenphoenix

Been reading “Tao & Longevity” lately, great book of course, there’s great depth you can explore each time u pass thru. Nan Huai Chin mentions several times a thing called Huang Ting Ching, or Yellow Yard Sutra. I can’t find a translation on quick Google, anyone have a copy, or can point me in the right direction? It refers to Ching as heat, Ch’i as force, and Shen as light. Intrigued! Never heard it put that way and this time purusing the book it really struck me. Any info on that sutra to explore further would be awesome. Much love.

Thank you dude! Lots to explore there. I'm in your debt, thanks for taking to the time to assist me.

Thank you! Not a big fan of Stuart Olson though...strikes me as an arm chair Taoist. Like a scholar not a practioner, though I could be wrong. I’m gonna keep looking.

What do u practice now?

Great advice there Trunk. I spent the first 2.5 years of my training focusing on basic fitness (especially CORE development which I think is essential to opening, releasing, and unleashing your tan tian), chi Kung, lots and lots of horse stance with empty mind and mild focus on deep tan tian breathing. I then slowly have moved into IMA, pa kua chang and Xingyiquan. The time seemed ripe and I “discovered” sexual energy was the power source behind chi development so I’ve been experimenting. Chia being the most popular and widespread sources but always contrasting and comparing, slowly feeling things out but not too scared to poke in the weeds a bit, outside the well traversed safe path. You and some of the other veterans here have travelled all over the forest and us wet behind the ears cub scouts love your words of wisdom and salty dog tales, but I just don’t want everyone to be too frightened to explore and blaze trails that honor the old, embrace the new, and create something that is personal and works for them. When the map says “there be dragons here” sometimes and some people just have to see it for themselves. And of course only with great risk, come great rewards. Much love to all and thank you for helping to creat Tao bums because truly there is no other place like it and I value it greatly.

This is from "The Art of the Bed Chamber" by Douglas Wile. (I wish I knew how to do screen shots or directly quote pages in here then having to copy and pasting but I don't know how to, perhaps one day someone will teach me). This book is fantastic NOT just for Chinese sexual yoga but meditation and cultivation in general, and if sexual energy practice is your thing (as it is mine) this book can be a touchstone for you that allows you to have a place to examine disparate sources compare and contrast them and find the wheat in the chaff so to speak. Get this book. "Mantak Chia’s impact on the importation of Chinese sexual yoga into the West goes well beyond the two books, Taoist Secrets of Love and Cultivating Female Sexual Energy, which I propose to review. No one to date has published such a detailed system of Taoist sexual yoga or personally propagated it so widely (TheLerner, you hearing your echo here my friend? ) Chia‘s stance is one of a modern day master who addresses his readers as potential disciples. Because the pair of books represents two sides of the same coin, and much of the information in the first is duplicated in the second, I will treat them as one in my discussion. In the introduction to his first book, Chia tells us that his teachings are a synthesis of practices he learned from four masters in Thailand and Hong Kong. Although his teachings accord in the main with those found in the present anthology, Chia’s books show no evidence of his having studied the ancient texts in the original. The only title ever mentioned is the Classic of Su Nu. which is quoted at the head of various chapters. but invariably from the lshihara and Levy translation, and one passage containing a gross error is quoted in both books. All Of this by way of speculation that what he offers seems largely to be the product of oral transmission and in fact contains much Of value not found as such in any of the published documents in this collection. Judged against the background of the present anthology, Chia borrows broadly but selectively from traditional teachings, making an important contribution to adapting these to the modern social and scientific setting. For example, the concept of mutual absorption, which plays a minor role in the tradition, becomes the centerpiece of Chia’s system. Chia ensures a balanced trade partnership by requiring that both practitioners be schooled in the techniques of microcosmic orbit meditation and absorption of sexual energy. Introducing Western notions of love and monogamy makes his message more palatable to modern couples, but his strict construction of coitus reservatus and suspension of menses proves that he is not merely watering the potion for the current marketplace. As radical as Chia’s message is in regard to ejaculation for procreation only, the pleasure principle and romantic love have by no means been banished from his system. By accentuating the healing properties of pleasure still apparent in the early classical texts and combining this with the later phases of sexual alchemy, he promises unimaginable ecstasies far surpassing exoteric orgasm. Chia seems willing to allow his students to focus on the immediacy of pleasurable sensation and, by enforcing a strict code of nonejaculation, trusts the health benefits to follow as a matter of course. Although Chia‘s conclusions regarding the role of sex in spiritual practice spring directly from Chinese roots, he also is the product of cross-cultural influences and uses Western scientific theories exten ively to support and even to express his own teachings. Chinese and Western medical models are woven so tightly together in his system that acupuncture points and endocrine glands constantly jostle each other in the same sentence. Purists might protest his eclecticism, and scholars might find some loose ends in his synthesis, but most readers will sense that Chia is simply availing himself of an expanding palate of language to communicate authentic experience. However. although borrowing freely from Western physiology for his own purposes. Chia is not impressed with modern sex therapy's emphasis on orgasm or techniques like Karezza that build heat and tension in the prostate without teaching the upward cycling of sexual energy. Like many observers of the West, Chia finds that sexuality is the chief obsession of our culture, but comes to the original conclusion that because of this perhaps only sex itself can serve as a vehicle for the spiritual awakening of the masses. To attempt another path in such a sexually charged culture, he fears, can only lead to repression and all of its distortions of personality and society. (This is the crux of Chia for me and Chinese Sexual Yoga in general and why it works so well as a path for me personally. I was a sex obsessed porn addict for years and years and it burnt out my Jing and kept me from ever starting a path of cultivation until I got it under control. Oh I had read lots of books and lurked on here for years, but never practiced until I got my sexual energy under control and harnessed it for something good. Now I think of all that time and energy wasted, the hours of looking at porn and the massive Jing loss of it...but this here and now and all there is, I rejoice that I'm here and free now! Take home message you can too if you are caught in the throes of online and in person sexual obsession, there are ways out, but no one can tell you yours, or when the time is ripe for you to strike out on it). The advanced stages of Chia’s system, again following traditional lines, demonstrate that sex may not be the ultimate experience of the union of yin and yang, but it is the safest and surest place to start. Chia‘s writings throw considerable light on the critical process of “refining the ching into ch'i and the ch 'i into spirit.” Arguing that the ch'i available from food and air is too gross to be absorb able in large amounts, we must turn to ching, a more highly refined and concentrated source of ch ’i simply waiting to be transmuted through sexual alchemy. His belief that ching energy is the fuel of creativity. spirituality, and even kindness and compassion is reminiscent of the classical Western conception Of eros. If conserved, he says, the yang fire in the ching burns up negativity, whereas ching loss engenders physical lassitude and dries up the very “will to enlightenment.” Giving an egalitarian twist to the tradition, he states that a law of sexual practices prevents one from absorbing the partner‘s power without giving freely of one‘s own. Chia‘s concept of “Valley Orgasm" or “Beyond Orgasm,” though perhaps implied in some traditional texts, is elaborated in great detail in his two books. He says: “No technique can guarantee it will happen. . . . It is a state of prolonged orgasm that generally occurs during the plateau phase when yin and yang energies come into an exquisitely delicate balance. It is a fusion of opposites, a melt down. . . . The valley orgasm actually is a fusion of Ching, Chi and Shen in the two lovers.” Dismissing genital orgasm as merely “itch relief,” he emphasizes the necessity of properly channeling sexual energy, for once aroused it can travel either up or down, but travel it must. The process of channeling this energy requires mastery of two techniques: the “Big Draw,” or puboccoccygeal pump; and “microcosmic orbit meditation” to circulate the energy and share it with the glands, organs, and finally the brain. One feels simultaneously satisfied and revitalized after releasing the sexual energy from the semen. As the “Valley Orgasm" rises from the lower tan-t‘ien to engulf the middle and upper tan-t'ien, it permeates all the organs and fuses ching, ch 'i, and spirit. (This was a major key for me, the sexual energy I create through meditation, cultivation, and stimulation exercises and the constant tidal sexual feelings we all get and that "controls" us throughout the day can be harnessed anytime, anywhere by simple activation of your PC muscle and Mula Bandha and funneled upward to rejuvenate your whole neuro endocrine system). Finally Chia offers a glimpse of what in the present anthology is called, “intercourse of the spirit without physical contact,” and beyond this, cessation of semen production and direct absorption of cosmic energy. This breatharian state also is in keeping with traditional teachings and considered the next thing to immortality." Much love my friends and blessings on your path. Hope this helps to show that though Chia is flawed as so many others pointed out, if you use him as a base and include other sources you can find much of great value in his teachings.

Great thread thank you for this information, but you sir what exactly is your problem? You harken back to those dark days when TDB was this ceaseless BS like you spew. Isn’t there some Little Witch Club Forum or whatever other pansy thing u pander you can go and act like a know it all adolescent on? I have great respect for Steve as you should if u had any progress in cultivation to see or hear clearly. Keep your baseless accusations to yourself.

Get more exercise, if u are beat from a fitness routine you will sleep as soon as your head hits the pillow and not wake up till morning. Another trick is get up early at the same time everyday, even if you didn’t sleep well. Practice shorter if necessary if you are tired, then if you must take a nap in the afternoon. But only a short one, 10-15 minutes is optimal recharge level, longer will make u feel groggy and affect your bedtime sleep. But always middle path here, as the first of the 100 Buddhist Health Rules state, “Sleep is the first element of nurturing life.” Much love my friend. 🙏

I’ve said it before in another thread but one of the simpliest and most motivating reason I get my ass out of bed at 4 a.m. every day (most days 😉) is when I skip practice one thing I notice glaringly is less patience, especially with the chaos of my four girls. And being a better, more patient dad is reward enough but of course there is so much more...as you all know, but that springs to mind as a great concrete example of the benefits of Taoist practice. Much love to all.

Gerard, I’m only on page 14 of 185 in Seth Speaks and I can tell you this is a synchronicity. The ideas and information is very very similar to that in My Big Toe. It’s somewhat unsettling to me but in a good way, a “weirding way”. Thank you 🙏. The ideas develop quite slowly in MBT, so hang in there it’s a long book (not sure how fast of a reader you are). “consciousness creates form, it is not the other way around”. That’s it in a nutshell. Looking for a quote to match it in MBT, but need to attend to my daughters diaper 😂. There’s reality for you I guess..

Oh and I plan to check out that Seth Speaks, I was just overwhelmed by all that info on the page you referenced and honestly a bit turned off by the “Christian” feel of the things I skimmed. I’m not anti-Christian, I come from that background (no longer a “believer” or practice it), but do feel that the three great world religions of Islam, Christianity, and Judism have caused mostly division and separation so far in its history, an example Christian missionaries are wonderful to help indigenous people with things like building and medical care, but they don’t need to be converted, they already have beliefs that are far more advanced and helpful to their society than the Bible, though most consider there beliefs primitive I consider them to be some of the last remaining “real” spiritual traditions. I’d in a heartbeat study a shamanic, indigenous tradition if I lived near one, but I’m a family man in the middle of Pennsylvania, perhaps one day when the kids are grown and have fled to the four winds I’ll apprentice myself to an Inuit shaman, my wife and are both nurses so we could maybe help the people with our medical training while I learn their ways...what a wonderful fantasy 😊. You never know though where ones path lies...I’m open and ready for what I’m suppose to learn here and now.

I practice Pa Kua Chang, love circle walking but also do straight martial/chi Kung drills (I donot practice forms, dont believe in them feel they are lifeless imitation) as well...guess I’m still encumbered by Ego but hopefully in a lifetime or a 100 I’ll find my way out 😀. No rush it’s all waiting there for each of us, the universe is providing just the challenge/learning we need right now to continue to grow. I have asked you this before Gerard. I’m a Metal Boar. Any info on that for me in brief or could u direct me to a source to read up on my birth year and type and what I need to look for to heal my weaknesses and accentuate my strengths? I hope u like his book, it’s probably not for everyone. It just totally clicked things for me like a missing key unlocking some hidden secret but that said it was for me, someone else may not be at that exact point that his kai shout or stick hit might open things up just right. The real value for me in it is as said I said it uses western ideas of science and computers as metaphors to understand things like Indras net, not every one needs a “crutch” like I did, and it really is helping me in finally breaking thru to some understanding. Just want to put it out there and share with anyone who it may help as well. I’m not at all saying it’s “the answer”, just a another finger putting the Way. His writing style too is great for me, conversational with a kinda dry, sarcastic humor that is on mark with my way of being and thinking. Again not for everyone, some will probably hate it. Much love my friend on your path and way.

https://theurbanmonk.com/the-anatomy-of-alchemy/ Interesting, I think, so I shared 😊 much love friends.

Thank you both for the added discussion. Shazlor, what is the book that you shared and so meticulously marked the pages of?

Yes I have the book and I read it on Google books at work 😊. I want you to read it though my friend 😃.

Gerard, Do you know anything about “My Big TOE” and the teachings of Tom Campbell? The book is really integrative of so many eastern concepts as you describe here, that all is consciousness created by our mind that we will one day merge and/or are already an intrinsic part of Big Mind. He is a physics PHD so a lot of the explanations, metaphors, and learning strategies he uses come from western thinking and computer science but are anointed and made clear in an eastern flavor and paradigm. You maybe don’t need this “crutch” or angle coming from such a strong Buddhist background, but his teachings and ways of explaining eastern concepts I tried so desperately to understand from the East in sutras, etc are made understandable to me now and most impressive to me is now I apply his way of thinking reflected back on pure Eastern sources I read and I’m finally beginning to get some of it and it’s clicking in my mind. The book is free to read on Google books. It’s a massive tome I’ve been working my way thru slowly for months chewing on it, digesting it, no rush, it’s all just there waiting for me. So freeing! I encourage all Bums to check him out.

Thank you both. Seems fanciful for sure and too mystical for my tastes. My plate is full anyway, but it seems what he has to offer is nothing “special.” Or too special depending on how you see it 😉.

Kinda what I was thinking and hoping to hear. I’m just feeling my way thru this all and going on a lot of intuition and grace. I was just thrilled to be able to sit full lotus again.

Prior to doing much cultivation, I was able to do full lotus with ease for reasons unknown. When I began working out two years ago, I suffered a right knee injury from running that still plagues me at times but it waxes and wanes. After this injury if I try to do full lotus with my right placed first on my left, then my left on my right, my right knee is in agony and hurts for days after. So I gave up on full lotus and just sit on a chair or in so called tailor style or do my meditation standing no big deal. Today I just was doing so stretching and my left leg went on my right and my right over it on my left, and I was like, “hmmm is this full lotus too?” Consulting the good ole Internet first, it seems to be like many things it’s tradition based and male/female based, with the opinion seeming to be left over right in general and for males specifically left over right. Now as background when I place my hands over my Dan tian I’m suppose to be right on top of left (being male), but it always feels forced to me and I keep drifting to to doing left on top of right which just feels more natural. Any thoughts, help, insight? Or am I just reallly a girl? 😂😂. Take care all and thanks.

I wonder does it is all? From anyone’s more advanced opinion?

“The idea that no ego is synonymous with weak, powerless, and effete demonstrates a lack of understanding of the nature and dynamics of consciousness. Low personal entropy, high personal power, fearlessness, love, and no ego are all on the same team. Beings with low or no ego have the highest quality consciousness and the greatest personal power...the personal power I am speaking of subsumes the standard definition. The power to take charge of your life, to defend yourself in the face of determined hostility, to find satisfaction and fulfillment, to lead and inspire others, and to accomplish great and lasting things in both the physical and non physical realities in which we exist, flows naturally from the same process that dissolve ego.” -Thomas Campbell from “My Big TOE (theory of everything)” Anyone else know him?! I’m so excited by his writings and concepts. It really confirms and fits into place much I’ve been missing. I’m only halfway thru the book (it’s actually a massive 800 page triolgy in one tome). I’m slowly digesting it, it’s mind blowing me. It’s a deep eastern like approach to life, the universe, and everything with no religious trappings. Highly recommended.

“Ego is the direct result of fear. Needs wants, expectations, and desires are generated by the ego as part of its shortsighted strategy to reduce the anxiety produced by fear. The ego has the job of building and maintaining a feel good fantasy barrier between fear and intellect. The ego, in collusion with the intellect, builds a complex delusional structure held together by convenient beliefs that justify an intricate web of interactive needs, wants, and desires. The devices you use to maintain your fantasizes or delusions are largely not understood for what they are-whether they are employed by yourself or by others. To see with clear vision, you must first become detached and fearless in the face of ignorance. Without fear there is no need for ego; no use for needs, wants, or beliefs. Your capacity to love (a measure of entropy in your system) is inversely related to the ego and fear your being contains. Because the ego is generated in response to fear, you can see that to love, to increase your capacity or ability to love, you must primarily let go of fear. “

The Three Gates of Practice: 1. The Gate of Sleep -When first awakening, the initial thought will be, “I’m tired, I need more sleep, I feel like shit.” You must push through this and get up, perform your morning ablutions and go immediately to practice. Focus on that relaxed, energized post practice feeling that will come if you can get yourself to it. 2. The Gate of Mind -From the moment of awakening enter the sphere of empty thoughts (Mushin). If a thought comes, don’t follow it or it will lead to more and more blossoming; just say “thinking, thinking,” and move on. Don’t let it lead to a feeling of negativity, either from what the thought was specifically about, “my practice is not as good as others, I’m wasting my time,” or your mind will try to distract you with fantasizes and delusions of the past and future and keep you lost in the daze of illusion. 3. The Gate of Body -The body and its subtle energy must be the focus, not the mind, not the endless parade of thoughts (at least in my practice). Just feel what your body feels from each posture to posture, let the energy flow but don’t focus on it too deeply or specifically. Don’t become too excited if you feel an obstruction open or a “good” feeling through your channels, nor get down from not feeling as stretched or able to achieve certain perfect posture that day that you could the prior days. Treat it all like passing clouds in the sky, say “there it is, let it go now.” The tan tian can be the focus anytime and should be throughout the day “place the heart/mind in the tan tian,” breathe deeply into the deepest regions of your belly and feel the energy gather there till it overflows.

Hey Exorcist, Thanks for the comments, much appreciated as always. I was definitely not saying that sleep is evil or you should force yourself to not sleep when you need it. I was just saying that you can't let yourself hit the snooze button everyday and keep saying "I'll practice later, or tomorrow." But as a busy father of four girls, who works full time, likes to workout a lot and to cultivate, I do have to sacrifice sleep to do all that some days. But as the first of the 100 Buddhist Health Rules state, "Sleep is the first element of nourishing life." So on some days I do in fact say "screw it" and sleep in. I listen to my body and when it tells me I'm pushing it I listen and let it rest, you just can't do that everyday and that was the point of my "gate of sleep." It's a personal motivator that has totally helped me on more than one morning to just get to it, and EVERY time I push through it and do, I always feel better for it physically and energetically after and throughout the whole day. In fact I find my mental and emotion state suffers when I don't practice, I have less patient with the kids, and tide of life can bog me down, and that is a big incentive to practice everyday for me and something that I take as a good sign my practice is worthwhile and doing something positive for me. (so that's why I shared my list, it has been a quick mental pep talk to myself that I thought might help someone else in their practice). Take care and thanks for the input again. Btw the what is the origin of your name? I've always liked it but wondered if the 1699 had any significance.

Steve, Means ALOT coming from a guy of your caliber. I’m so glad it helped you and many thanks to all your posts. They are ALWAYS insightful and helpful.