寒月 Hanyue

Thank you, do you recommend any particular translation? Interesting stuff thanks Best,

+100 and more! Exactly. MANY alchemical techniques were balanced by the environment they were practiced in. Quite a different story if you aren't living in such a place

Sorry, mate. Take my post as using yours to simply clarify even further . For years I knew of this method as Hakuin's cure for zen sickness. And it always seemed to be discussed that way. Then I read and realised what HE said about it and I realised something more. Yes, exactly. I certainly wouldn't know what 'real' Zen, or 'Daojia' practice is, the more I learn the less I know. It's not intended to replace Ch'an practice, just enable you to do it more easily. And 100% agree, I respect Hakuini a lot, so if he points something out I feel it's worth paying attention to. Please do post the other information you have when you have time. Best,

I REALLY try and NOT get involved in this threads. Listen, do you really want help with this? Are you prepared to listen to people who know more about this than you do? Even if what they have to say does not fit your agenda? First of all you are a teenager, MOST of the supposed semen/jing retention methods out in the west under the guise of 'Sexual' Daoist techniques are for OLD men! That need to retain a certain hormonal vitality. The other major reason for developing semen retention was simply as a way to prevent priests fathering children, think the "Catholic" rhythm method Qigong is about balance in your system, alchemy is about taking that balance and improving upon it. NOTHING should cause you to go out of balance! You are young, you are going to be horny, its healthy. Okay There are several formulas for working out a minimum length of time between ejaculations. The famous Doctor Sun Ssu-mo (who lived to 101 years young) recommends twice a month. Others say it should change according to seasonal variances, or age, plus you have to factor in individual constitution etc. There is no hard and fast rule here. You have to learn to listen to YOUR body, especially if you have no teacher to guide you. Do you understand the concept of stagnation of qi and blood from Chinese medicine? Or the concept of DEAD jing? (VERY hard to treat!) Simply holding onto your nut sack and suffering in the hopes that jing retention will be good for you is daft. And un-healthy. It is not that you can't retain for longer periods of time, however if that time is spent doing everything through sheer will power NOT to ejaculate, then this actually goes against the point of cultivation. Instead of having a calm equilibrium with which to practice. Every session you are an internal mess of raging hormones and a mind all over the place. IF your qi channels are open and easily flowing, and IF your heart/mind is calm and still. Guess what? You don't get the same build up of intense sexual urges and stagnating sexual energy around the genitals. THEN you retain your jing for longer periods, while retaining the balance for practice that makes it worthwhile. With NO effort. Does that makes sense? It isn't the other way around, "but if I just hold onto my jing for longer periods, then my practice will improve...", thats putting the cart before the horse. Your retention improves because of your practice improving, make sense? Stillness sitting (letting go and deep relaxation) Opening up the qimai in the body (gentle qigong) Opening up the pelvis, pelvic floor and sacrum (melt it, expand and dissolve it) Opening up the feet and the legs (related to above) Avoid anything that provides sexual stimulation (not easy thesedays). [Edit: Standing practice, but not the muscling through for hours type. The heavy sinking and releasing into the ground connecting the spine through the legs into the floor and beyond type. And qigong walking. Both will help open the legs, important for strong circulation through the eight vessels] When I say opening, I mean opening the 'energy body', which will have a knock on effect to the physical body. Ya Mu's Stillness-movement and Gift of Dao II, Sequential center qigong will certainly do that for you, no forcing. Opening the gates and channels while allowing the mind chatter, and emotions to fall away, will in time allow a shift towards natural retention that is NOT forced, unhealthy or unbalancing to your system. Another, seemingly little known, fact is this. Different people will respond quite differently to the build up of sexual charge within their bodies. Some will find it quite refreshing and enjoyable, others will simply find it uncomfortable. It is my experience and opinion that this has to do with how the channels are open and flowing. If you have what the chinese call 'rebellious' qi, or incorrect qi flow in certain channels, the build up of sexual energy in the body is exacerbated, period. Holding onto your jing and building the sexual charge is not going to address that rebellious qi. Learning to allow sexual charge to build up within the body, but not pool in and around the genitals, in a comfortable manner that produces no tension (physical, mental, or emotional) can be a slow process, but worth taking the time. Stay below the ejaculation threshold. (Men tend to overly concentrate the sexual charge to the genitals, they need to open it out to the whole body. Women tend to dissipate the sexual charge and need to learn to allow it to build around the genitals. This is of course generalised. ) Feel your heart connected to your genitals, accept and appreciate the build up of sexual charge, do not see it as an enemy that is going to 'steal' or cause the 'loss' of your precious jing Otherwise you are building barriers between different aspects of yourself, another thing that goes completely against the point of cultivation. It does not matter how much charge you can build or sustain without tension. You slowly increase the capacity to be comfortable with it. Absorb and be present to the sexual charge. best,

Hey Jetsun, Bodri and Master Nan say a lot of things I agree with, and some things I do not. The party line within Zen is that Hakuin learned this for "Zen sickness", ie, too much straight out sitting and not looking after himself. This is true. However, that is NOT that same thing as saying this method is ONLY for Zen sickness. It is a method of healing the body and balancing out the qimai. Hakuin needed to practice it due to his Zen sickness, true, but to mistake this as simply a "Zen sickness" prescription I think is to miss the greater picture. Look at Hakuin's own description; "This treatment was first devised by Shakamuni Buddha. In the middle ages it came down through the Tendai school, where it was used widely as a treatment for extreme exhaustion. Yet seldom in this degenerate age do we hear of this miraculous treatment. How sad that people today seldom gain knowledge of this Way. When I was in my middle years I heard of it from the hermit Hakuyu, who maintained that the speed of its efficacy lay only in the degree to which the practitioner endeavored. If one is not laggard one may obtain long life. Don’t say that Hakuin has become senile and is teaching old-woman’s Ch'an. Perhaps if you just get to know it, you will clap your hands and laugh out loud." So, I'm going to disagree that it is "a method to combat Zen sickness." It is a healing method that was used by Hakuin to treat HIS Zen sickness, thats a different thing, IMHO. Most spiritual practices in monastaries, especially Buddhist, don't involve any kind of taiji or moving qigong. Moving practices were daily activities done in a given state of presence and awareness. Often any form of 'stretching', was just that, a rudimentary form of stretching out the body after sitting for hours on end Best,

Well, quite frankly this thread is NOT about what is or is not "da real Zen or Dao method". It is about a healing method passed on and taught by Hakuin, a highly respected Zen Master and teacher. To the point where pretty much all Rinzai Zen masters today like to trace their lineage through him. Hakuin thought it was worth while passing on, and I'll take his word for it over yours any day, no offense. The only person stating anything about where it came from or how it relates to anything is Hakuin. Exactly where it came from or why or anything else is less relevant as far as I'm concerned. If you don't like it, then don't practice it, easy. Best,

Good question! Sponge Gourd is; Which always reminds me of a bath scrubber [edit, just looked it up, it IS the same thing! haha ] I thought it got put in various Chinese dishes, however I was mistaken. What I've seen in the cupboards looks the same but is actually something else, my bad. Given the rest of the "ingredients" I am going to assume a possible reference regarding open pores and the skin/flesh taking on a similar structure? The Native American method and Purple rose sound very interesting. Can you share more? Best,

you're welcome, glad it's helpful

Then I'll quote myself if I may.... In my experience some are very lucky and simply begin learning what is on their doorstep, not knowing what it is, and only later find that it is a good lineage and teacher. Often this is all they've ever known. Others spend years, even decades searching out teacher after teacher until they find someone who actually embodies what they seek. Many well known and highly regarded figures in cultivation, when you look at their biographies only found a lineage or teacher later in life after much searching. It shouldn't depress anyone, you simply keep going, one foot infront of the other, one step at a time Best,

Do you want a "complete" system, or do you simply want to train three things concurrently? If it is the latter, well you don't need to make things so hard on yourself Just find a decent martial line to follow, and a decent spiritual path to follow. Then do so. It's what most people do. A complete and integrated lineage is a different animal. Not better, just a different animal. Best,

I really wouldn't. It's a great book if you are familiar with the material, BUT there are BIG holes in it, and much of it is quite misleading. Best,

I agree completely. This is the best way forward. Find a good teacher of one aspect that you can put in time and effort with. Begin your path with that, who knows where it may lead and what doors will open as you proceed. You may surprise your self, it's how I ended up studying with my teachers Best,

Sorry, not intentionally being vague hehe I do not have an encyclopedic knowledge of who there is. I know who I would recommend based on one, maybe two of the three things you seek. As I said, some will sell you that have all three, but when you look at the person what do they embody? What are they like? What are their students like? Learning to discern truth from falsehood is hard enough in one let alone in all three aspects. There are massive differences as what people accept as being 'good' martial art, or anything else. And I'm not sure of your standards. Personally I feel that 'complete' systems are a kind of myth, you do realise that most of the time the only person taught the full art was the lineage holder. Not to withhold information, but simply because each area is such a deep study. That is why there are few who genuinely have such deep knowledge of each aspect and how they inter-relate. So as an example, to at least provide a bench mark; Master Feng Zhiqiang, unfortunately he died earlier this year. However he was well respected for all that you seek, and while not all disciples or students are created equally, looking into those teaching his system is probably worth it. Sam FS Chin, I have not met someone who, with a genuine heart, exemplifies all that you seek, as much as Sam. He is one of the few who can actually demonstrate 'unusual' power so many others speak of, not only that, he'll show you how he does it. His understanding and embodiment of both Daoist and Ch'an Buddhist philosophy is also very deep. His family art is a genuine path into Dao. Everyone else I can think of right now is either a fighter or a lover, even if they occasionally dabble on the other side and dabbling hardly a "complete" system makes... If I think of any more I'll post them. Best,

There, as always with Bruce, is a MASSIVE amount of info. Sometimes overwhelming amount. I have seen bits and pieces of the various programs Bruce has been releasing. All I'll say is good luck to those only learning from them and not with a teacher under bruce at the same time!! There are very mis-leading things going on in some videos that will give a noobie to Bruce's stuff the wrong impression or understanding. If you already know his neigong, you may fair better. By that I mean, learned it in person. I've heard mixed perspectives on Bruce's martial mastery I've heard mixed perspectives on Bruce's meditation and spiritual accomplishment I've only ever heard good things about Bruce's neigong. Liu told Bruce, "you become what you practice", looking at Bruce you have to wonder sometimes. The Dragongate sanctuary (DGS) bagua dvds are pretty awesome in their neigong content, but I've only watched as i don't do bagua. Master Hu taught Stillness-Movement neigong in his medical clinic, he also taught it to his Xingyi quan students. There is little complexity in what S-M neigong can be done along with. Ya Mu (M. Lomax) is a lineage holder of Master Hu's system. Best,

Yes it is a tall order Most that can fight, do not have any depth in meditation/spirituality, and vice versa (despite what their marketting will tell you!!). If you REALLY want this, be prepared to travel, period. Then find a teacher/lineage who is genuiinely respected by their peers. Not by noobs or wannabes, but by their peers. Caveat emptor, always. Training in person for a martial art is kinda a prerequisite, I don't care how much info or video is available! Bruce likes coming out with packages, but it is always fun meeting people who have been teaching themselves compared to actually learning it in person, HINT We easily fool ourselves, even when there is a teacher present . But some people like money and others like information so... Best,

Without wanting to sound like a pain in the ass, but it really does depend on what you mean by transmission! Things/objects can hold qi, or a charge. This is not the same as something that carries an echo due to intent. Either can be intentional or unintentional. Giving someone qi is not the same as using qi to pass on information. I would also say that a book that opens/unlocks something in an individual is not necessarily a 'transmission' either. It is more that individuals consciousness reacting to the words, just as it may to a sunset, or a comment from someone, or a lovers touch or kiss. All of which can be considered transmissions of a kind, but is more what someone receives from something rather than what is 'given'. Shaktipat works in person, over the phone, via webchat, through a photo. The intensity and degree it works will of course vary. Time and distance are irrelevant. Even having shaktipat from the same individual, in person, on different occasions will be experienced very differently, bear this in mind. I have had shaktipat from the same person in all of the above ways on more than one occasion, so I at least have some comparison. Aligning your consciousness, or at least attempting to do so, is just that, and there is a different thing that occurs if they align back. +1,000,000 and more

I wholeheartedly agree with Mithshrike. It is only those who do not, or have not had to live with pain on a daily basis that tend to think it is beautiful or helpful. Sinansencer, What you are talking about is appreciation of 'eating bitter' to put it in Chinese vernacular. The humbling part of gongfu, though there are many ways to understand eating bitter and they don't all involve physical pain/discomfort. Eating Bitter and Pain are not the same thing, though they can be seen as maybe overlapping in certain ways. As for the bliss monkeys out there running away from reality and wanting to feel orgasmic all day long, well I'm sure things will catch up with them sometime Maybe in this or another lifetime? who knows. Best,

IMO, which is just that, my current opinion, the MESSAGE and the VEHICLE of that message should not be confused. And are more often than not. What any individual WANTS to hear, and what they NEED to hear are not often the same thing, and how easy is to 'see' through those filters of ours and appreciate or realise that which will free us from our 'bonds', whatever you perceive those bonds to be. And that is the other issue, what you feel or see your bonds to be are also seen through those filters and are they the same bonds that a high level Buddhist monk, Daoist priest, Mongolian Shaman, or any other fill in the blank denomination would percieve as that which is preventing your "freedom"? East - West is an easy dichotomy to make, in fact it is VERY hard not to, but both yin&yang exist in East & West Best,

You're welcome, these things are always breadcrumbs, through further practice and study we can see where they lead Well it isn't solely a 'Chinese thing'. I don't think anyone has said it better than Buddha, before or after. The first time I read the Kalama Sutta was in Doc Morris first book, have no idea about translations of such a text, but heres his version. "Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard (or read) it. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. Do not believe in anything because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. but After observation and analysis, when you find anything that agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it." Says it all really. But the second part from you I quoted above is important. The system and the view of that system. It is easy to dismiss your own experience or cause yourself problems through expectation because of what you read or hear about and how it is 'mapped' or 'supposed to unfold according to A cultural system. I'm crap, nothing I do results in lava flames lapping up my sushumna It is also easy to dismiss A cultural system because you experience doesn't make sense when compared to that system, so they must have it all wrong anyway despite lineages of hundreds if not thousands of years. They musta all been stupid At the extremes above they sound silly, no? You have to respect the traditions for what they are, nothing more nothing less. But that is quite hard. So Why does one system map part of the energy body, and another map something else? Context is important and helps you avoid confusion. While anyone will stand on the shoulders of others to cut workload and borrowing is all fair in love n cultivation. But surprisingly most Chinese doctors were more interested in medicine than spiritual alchemy. Yes. Exactly. People assume a "term"'s appearance in a text means the person is talking about the same thing. Even in our own first language you will get debate and nuanced differences in meaning and understanding in subjects. Scientists who are top of their field and yet debate, argue or even bet with each other over the meaning or true understanding of their studies. The false picture being painted is that a fully cohesive and coherent 'map' of Chinese energy exists. This is not true. Go all the way back to the oldest extant records and you will find variation of opinion and differences in thought. And this continues on throughout Chinese history. Same is true in India, or Tibet. Then you have those or have done cross-cultural comparisons etc. If you can appreciate WHO the author is, then you have a better appreciation for the possible perspective taken, and why they view things that way. What are THEY trying to uncover or look at? It's a fantastic book. And it was the main way I viewed all this confusion until my more recent discoveries. I mention it because I still think it is worth reading, and I think having several informed opinions is always better than only one. Because at the end of the day you want to working on forming your OWN informed opinion. I love the work of the late venerable Master Nan. He was a scholar and achieved much in actual cultivation. But there are historical documents that paint a different picture. And I think they are all valuable. The benefit of Master Nan's work is that he is drawing a picture that is easier to access. I trust his points over 'pop' qigong authors. The 'three' qimai map of a central and a left and right channel is usually associated with Hindu or Buddhist practice. But there are variances of this map too that cause much confusion. This has to do with the location and placement of the cakras, the routes of the three channels themselves, as well as the relationship of the channels to the cakras. It is easy to assume that the appearance of the 'zhongmai' or central channel is a later addition into China via Buddhism. But I think it would be incorrect to make such an assumption. First we have Dr Yuen of the Jade Purity lineage of Daoism explaining about the evolution of the theory of qimai, and how the 'chongmai' was a variation or development from the earlier 'zhongmai'. Secondly, we have Master Nan saying that the Daoist theory of qimai first emerged from Zhuang Zi. And it is also within Zhuang Zi that we have the first textual reference to the Daoist practice of Zuowang (sitting and forgetting). A primary method of cultivation. It is also in the Zhuang Zi that we find references to the 'taichong' (great thoroughfare), which according to some commentators is this column between Heaven and Earth, from which comes the qijing bamai, but most notably the chongmai, renmai, dumai. To quote again; "Hence, the sages did not call them chong, du, and ren, but referred to them [collectively] as the grand thoroughfare. The name grand thoroughfare refers to the arising ascent of essence qi within the body and does not only mean the sea of blood." My Kundalini teacher told me this column was the real sushumna, there is also the fine thread at the core. So is this not the central channel? And is this not a reference to it in an old and classic Daoist text that pre-dates Buddhism in China? If we take the above quote, then it helps explain why there is no mention of "zhongmai", because it was referred to differently than 'central channel'. And the focus was not on the smaller aspect, but the larger picture and how the eight vessels opena nd unfold during cultivation practice. AFAIK it's not a "Daoist" version of anything, it is simply yoga methods. Check out 'Body of Light' by John Mann and Lar Short. There are problems with the book, but then the idea behind it is rather ambitious. It is a shame that the "Daoist" map represented is Chia's. Daoist maps vary more than Buddhist ones! At least that has been my experience. All the best, Ps apologies for spelling and typos, its late here. Time for practice and bed

Thank you for the kind words, There has never been an across the board consensus on this. The above is based from direct experience and what is in the 'archive' that supported and explained that experience with the most clarity. Maps are meant to be helpful, but can often cause more headache than they should. Some of my teachers have liked to use maps, others prefer not to. These days I appreciate and understand why so many maps were left loose and with ambiguity! It does mean a decent teacher is needed to provide the right guidance and perspective in practice (your compass). I've seen many chase after maps, or grab them from indiscriminate sources and feel they can use them. A map, however, doesn't work so well without a compass Best,

Good to see ya on here From talking with people I feel it can be hard to look beyond what others are experiencing, and genuinely be open to the present moment and, as you say in your book, simply allow or Let. The keyword that jumps out at me from your post is SOMETIMES. Whatever occurs. Someone may never move all that much, while someone may always move. As long as it's their own experience and they aren't chasing someone elses . Best,

You're most welcome. The energy bodies qimai (qi channels) can be a confusing area with all the variations of the 'map'. Let me make one thing clear, there has NEVER been only one version of these maps. The qimai, what they are, their functions, their routes etc there has always been changes and variations throughout Chinese history. TCM is THE WORST source for information on the qijing bamai, TCM is simply not concerned with the topic and bar the ren and du simply pays it lip service. This occurs in the textbooks where they mention or list them and show the route, and maybe show the associated points, but do not have any deeper awareness or understanding. Why? because its not needed in TCM. Now there have been branches of classical (pre 1949) Chinese medicine that use more in depth appreciation of the qijing bamai, but there were as many flavours of Chinese medicine as there are ice cream and they were'nt all created equal. Hence the standardisation process last century. It should be noted however that this was NOT the first time the Chinese state had standardised Chinese medicine. The 'zhong' (centre, middle, central) channel is the one that runs straight through the torso, it is usually depicted as running all the way from huiyin to baihui. But sometimes it is shown as shorter. Going from say huiyin to the heart area for example. Now another important thing to note. Just because a method or system shows or describes a map with say, the central channel only going upto the heart DOES NOT mean that the central channel ONLY goes upto the heart!! No, it simply means that THAT method and system focuses on opening and utilising that part of the channel, and is not so concerned about the rest. In the same way that a diagram showing the 7 "major cakra" does not mean that that system is not aware of, or that all the other minor chakra do not exist haha Diagrams used by a system or method are being used to illustrate a specific thing, and should be understood for doing so. Assuming that it implies they are unaware of or that something doesn't exist in that system because the diagram doesn't have it is fallicious thinking in my opinion. The maps and theories from Daoist alchemy are NOT the same as those in medicine. Though at times they have been merged, like in the Qijing bamai kao. So today we generally have three types of 'maps'. Medical Alchemical Qigong Medical can be split into two, 'standardised' and 'classical', there is overlap but the approach and teaching of qimai theory is quite different between these two in my experience. Alchemical, these maps vary from school to school, and depend upon the goals and methods used. Qigong, these maps are derived from either alchemical ones, medical ones, or are an attempt at a hybrid between the two. Thesedays I simply ignore popular qigong authors like Yang Jwing-ming and their attempts at universalising maps from disparate and unrelated sources. I go to the source and read the classics myself, and only use that as a mirror to be held against what I'm experiencing via what I'm taught by my teacher. Let's also calrify something. ALL the qimai have primary and main routes, and secondary routes. Usually the routes depicted in diagrams are the main routes that run near the surface, why? because those maps are for acupuncturists, and acupuncturists are only interested in what they can stab with a needle. Chongmai doesn't connect the three dantians, it's main route is the spinal channel, but the rest of it is still the chongmai And no the spinal route is NOT zhongmai, thought I'd covered that . The central channel is just that, and the three dantian, or more accurately, the centre of the dantians are along the zhongmai. When the zhongmai is straight that is. The zhongmai is alchemical and is also found in martial arts, though in martial arts it has usually been reducued to a physical sense of the central pivot line of the body. It is related to the flow between Heaven and Earth and really has much more to do with spirirtual things that the spinal route of the chongmai. TCM is not really concerned with the higher spiritual things, but on balancing out the body. As I said they don't really work with or focus on any of the Qijing bamai, other than the renmai and dumai. And that is simply because they at least have points of their own. There are of course exceptions to the rule. It tends to be people also involved in Daoism that bring these aspects into their medicine. Eight extraordinary vessels is a translation I also used for a long time, and is pretty much standard. However the Chinese reads 'Qi' (extra) 'Jing' (channel) 'Ba' (eight) 'Mai' (vessels), so a direct translation is "extra channels, eight vessels". I know of a well respected and old Beijing doctor with a reknown for his channel theory who says that the Qijing bamai should be considered the extra-ordinary channels, and the map to help you understand them shows you eight. Which implies there are more than simply the basic eight. Interesting huh? Recommended literature was in my previous post. Best thing I can pass on is HOW to start looking and finding reliable and decent information beyond that synthesis of 'pop' qigong authors, blargh So I gave you the names of various old texts and prominent people in Chinese history whose opinion is worth looking at. I'll give a more recent author and respected cultivator though, who investigates this but concludes differently to what I've written. I still like their work though and I know they've read the classics I mentioned because their descriptions of how the qi bodies open up through meditation are rooted and first appeared in those classics Tao & Longevity by the recently deceased Master Nan. Ah, practices! Most cultivation paths, Buddhist and Daoist work with and on the zhongmai. But I'll throw out two practices in a classic Daoist fashion, yin & yang wuwei & yuwei. Jinggong or jingzuo leading to zuowang. Zhongmai breathing: Breathing in and down to lower dantian and up and back out again. I am not a fan, practitioner, nor advocate of 'qigong' methods that utilise "yunqi", moving qi about the channels with the yi. These methods are largely prescriptive in nature, and like messing with your breathing patterns can unbalance your system. Especially if played with without a teacher or establishing a firm basis of deep awareness and presence to the natural and current flow, movement, and rhythms within your body. Zhongmai breathing is not yunqi based qigong, nor is it an unnatural breathing method. It is a presence and awareness method. It is strange because the majority of both the old Daoist and Buddhist texts do not utilise or refer to 'yunqi' methods. Please bear this in mind. Playing around with your zhongmai is NOT recommended. Good luck,

JAJ generally describes the "taiji pole" as running from huiyin to baihui. It always appeared to me to be his way of using the alchemical map of the zhongmai (central channel) AND the TCM map of the chongmai (spinal route). The larger column of qi between Heaven and Earth described in my previous post, I first saw during Shaktipat. My teacher described it as being the real "sushumna" or central channel, rather than simply the small aspect of it inside the body generally described. We stand within this channel. I have subsequently seen and felt this energetic structure most often when practicing medical qigong, particularly when my teacher is around . Lots of columns and spirals. I do not know if JAJ is infact referring to this with his concept of "taiji pole" I've never seen this term elsewhere. In the classics of China, Daoist and medical, the best and only thing I have found that describes this is the taichong (grand/great thoroughfare). However it seems this is seldom mentioned . Best,

No the 'taiji pole' from JAJ is not the 'thrusting' vessel or chongmai in Chinese medicine. The zhongmai (central channel) is the core of a larger column of qi between heaven and earth, this is the tai chong (great/grand thoroughfare). The zhongmai runs between baihui and huiyin, and today many confuse it with chongmai (thrusting channel). The 'standard' chongmai route runs up the front of the torso, loops under the torso, goes up the spinal cord, and even has a path running down the leg. Though it is the spinal path most think of. In fact there are lots of arguments of the route of chongmai because of this. According to Jeffrey Yuen, Daoist priest/lineage holder and Chinese doctor, the chongmai is actually a later outgrowth of the zhongmai hence the different route. In both Chinese medicine and alchemy, the concept of the taichong is linked to the chongmai as being the central conduit of qi in the body around which all the other qimai revolve. Luo Dong-Yi [17th century Chinese doctor] views the taichong with the diffusion of yuanqi throughout the body. Li Shizhen's Qijing bamai kao (Investigation of the extra vessels and eight channels) and Zhang ziyang's Bamai jing ( Eight vessel classic) are worth chasing up and absorbing. Some of the confusion comes from equating names from Daoist alchemy with Chinese medical theory, they are not the same thing. Which isn't to say there is no overlap either. So chongmai as a name fits the nature of both the central channel and the spinal channel. And it isn't technically wrong to use for either of them, but it causes confusion. The zhongmai, renmai, dumai, and chongmai are 'aspects' of the taichong, and the daimai spirals this creating a three-dimensional energetic structure that forms during the embryonic period. Though in TCM they focus on these 'three torso' mai more (zhongmai is ignored), older texts actually put much emphasis upon how things rise from the very bottom, hence the other four qijing bamai. Many throughout Chinese history have attempted to manke sense of and map these things, the above is a view shared by famous Chinese doctors and Daoists who shared notes and then wrote commentaries on it all. It makes the most sense to me out of all the perspectives I've seen. Hope this helps, "The essence qi [jingqi 精氣] invariably soars up along the grand thoroughfare and ascends to irrigate the yin and yang. Thus, a person's primal qi and esence qi all arise from below. Moreover, in arising from below, they divide into three pathways and ascend [this is the ren, du, and chong]." "Hence, the sages did not call them chong, du, and ren, but referred to them [collectively] as the grand thoroughfare. The name grand thoroughfare refers to the arising ascent of essence qi within the body and does not only mean the sea of blood." Nei jing bo yi (1675) Luo Dong-Yi

Yes I do. I also have several lineages. Firstly I view/feel there is a difference between 'tradition' and 'lineage' and it is easy to equate the two things as being one thing. The whole "Tradition" or "Go it alone" thing is something that I think will always be argued and debated. Oddly enough not everyone maintains the same thinking they had as they continue on with their path. Many view 'tradition' as being a cage and resist the idea because they feel it will somehow cramp their style. Oddly, given what many of these traditions speak of at their core, this often surprises me. The opposite of this is to pick n choose what you want ala that 'chaos' magician, and create your own system/method. Oddly, given the depth of many of the paths that exist, this simply seems like a lot of hard work. Am I willing to buy a car? Or should I design and build my own? If I buy a car does that tie me to Ford whereas I never even get in any other car? And always have to go to a Ford garage to get it fixed, Jon round the corner in the local garage won't do? Well, I've made my car. But even though it started out fine somethings wrong and I can't figure it out, but no-one else understands my design? Now, of course there are holes in the above, but they just popped into my head. As the thinking is not always so far from this. WHY are you in a tradition? WHY are you not in one? These are the real questions. Some are hiding in a tradition and trying to use its weight, sorry you still need to do the work. Some are fine without a tradition and will go far on their own. Some will go further in a tradition. Some will never get anywhere without help. Some will get so caught up and confused by their tradition that they go nowhere. It doesn't matter what you do, there are ALWAYS pitfalls. If you seek a tradition because you feel you can't succeed without one, why? If you are vehemently against the idea of tradition as you feel its restraining,why? Both can be truth and both can be your learned-self/ego wanting to hide. Now, one of my teachers says that on your path you will often get great insight and think wow, that is amazing and want to pursue it. You mention it to your teacher, and they say 'well, its a dead-end. You can go down there and you'll progress for a couple of years then nothing.' This is what a tradition is. It is the wisdom of teachers who can guide you in your own exploration of the path. They know when to bother putting in the time and effort or when to leave something. And they know because they've been there, and their teacher went there, and his teacher went there. You stand on the shoulders of giants. He says the difference he sees today in China is that the link to the past is often broken. So many 'teachers' have jumped on the insight they've had in their practice but don't have a teacher within a tradition to ask about it. They have no idea if what they've got will become a dead-end in x number of years time. Or if it will actually go where they think it will. Oddly though, they are usually the ones building names for themselves and making a big deal out of their AHA! moment. Sad but true. Now, of course, no tradition is all-encompassing. It can't be. So what they consider to be worthwhile is dependant upon that tradition and what it is about. So if you sign up with Ford and then moan later on that they are not Ferrari, is that because they lied to you, or is it because you couldn't tell the difference? Or as I find most common when I ask people, they don't know what they want or where they actuall want to go! So they simply do what is front of them? Additionally, not all traditions work the way described above. Some have become rigid and dogmatic and really do want you to 'lose yourself' in the tradition and simply bow to doing everything exactly their way. I have never met a real or genuine teacher of a tradition that was rigid or dogmatic, and the ones like that I have met set of alarm bells about the whole thing. Tradition is about having a guide and a map, so that you can makes sense of the experiences that occur on the cultivation path, and so you waste less time in your practice. It is not about telling you what to do or to experience. So if it is doing that, then something is wrong and there is no 'tradition', no actual line of wisdom just dead empty words. Lineage is something different, but the above generally shows wether it is present in the tradition or whether the tradition is hollow. But in my experience YOU do not choose a lineage, IT finds/chooses you. You have to follow your heart, and be open to what you experience and find. If that leads to a tradition, or if it does not. Anything else is ego placation whether you are in a tradition or not. Just my experience anyway, Best,