goldisheavy

A lot of people think these are actual real channels in the body? So very few people think that the body is mind-made in the first place, and never mind the channels, which are also mind-made. If anyone understands the mind-made nature of appearances, there is no need to connect anything with anything else, or to elicit anything at all. There is no process to follow and no particular result either. Isn't this so much easier and fun? But that's just me I guess. I guess no one is curious that naguals don't see any energy channels, but they see energy compartments with the assemblage point. At the same time, taoist alchemists have no concept of the assemblage point. This is a very unique hint about the nature of reality available in the West. Uniquely in the West. Because naguals don't know about taoist alchemists. Taoist alchemists don't know about naguals. But in the West we have an opportunity to overlook many many traditions. That's a precious opportunity! It's not often one can do this. Most of the time a person is born into a single tradition and that's the only thing the person ever knows. You've been blessed to see beyond traditions. Don't waste the blessing!

Not pyro, but this might be fun. http://po-drugomu.ru/trainings/01/ He's saying "Enter the state I explained to you before. The body is water. It's liquid and flowing. Now go." And this guy is walking on the glass. This site is mentioned in association with "Sergey North" (Сергей Север), which is mentioned by Roman in the original pyro video (the full version of it, not the short youtube clip -- there is a link to the full version from the youtube clip description). That place is a business. They sell these trainings like you'd sell candy in a store. So for any Russians who are nearby, there is that candy available from those guys.

On the same forum I found this video, even better than Roman, in my opinion: If you want to believe it. Brief translation: the guy is explaining how to do it. He says that first thing to learn is how to get out of the body. He explains what is OOBE from his point of view. The interviewer asks how is OOBE connected to pyro? The guy explains that you can feel how you can light things with your gaze, your thoughts and your skill. He explains a technique where you relax on the chair and focus on your right hand. As you focus, the hand gets warmer, there is prickling, and it slightly bloats, and it feels like the hand is moving up and down, and you feel huge vibration and sound. Vibration spreads from the hand to the rest of the body, and that's the moment of separation. So basically he explains how to dislodge your astral hand, and then how to use that sensation to dislodge the rest of the body. My own note: that's funny, because when I got my OOBE that's exactly what I felt too. I thought it was just me. Huge sound and vibration. My guess is that it's only because the person is still somewhat stuck to the body. If the person is less stuck, it's possible to get out without the vibration and noise. I know my wife can get out without any theatrics, just like slipping out of a jacket. So anyway, he gets out of the body and basically looks at the paper and it lights. He can light things near and far by doing that. He said it takes some practice and that it might not work on the first try, but that eventually it will work if you continue practicing. That's much better, imo, than the primitive method of storing energy with one mantra, then releasing it with another and you can only do it nearby. That's the technique Roman was demonstrating. This younger guy is demonstrating something more general, more abstract. He's showing it's the power of the mind in a more general and less specialized sense. I like this guy much better because he has a calm friendly energy and he's explaining his thing very matter of factly without flipping out. Very nice. EDIT: ---- Some guy on the forum was saying that this video is fake. So "buyer beware" applies as always. That's why I also said "if you want to believe it". Just thought I should pass that on as well.

I can read Russian perfectly. If anything in particular is interesting to you, I can translate here. Mostly it's just inane banter as you'd expect. Nothing extraordinary is being said to my mind. Just what you'd expect. People discussing how good Roman (the guy in the video) looks. Talking about the nature of siddhis and the goal of good life, etc. Someone brings up "Matrix" the movie, yak yak yak. There are one or two wise people posting on that thread. Like the guy who said that enjoying every day is better than merely living a long life. That's gold. Mostly people don't notice wise things and just yak about nonsense. They're also talking about Bruce Lee further down. The thread is going all over the place.

I explained that I didn't mean that literally. I didn't suggest the teacher literally pay the student. I said that to indicate that the process is ideally enjoyable to the teacher so much, that they'd be able to conceive of paying for it. It's kind of like when people say, "If I didn't get paid to do it, I would pay to do it" when they talk about enjoying some profession, when they refer to it as a heart calling. So who is twisting the words now? I almost never speak 100% literally. I speak about 50% literally and 50% metaphorically. Anyone who takes me 100% literally is an idiot. Unless I explicitly say to take something literally, a person should have the mind open to the fact that what I am saying could very well be metaphorical. Taking all things literally is part of the mechanism that traps a person in worldliness and narrowmindedness. And I did make an offer. I said, if anyone is close by, please feel free to PM me and we'll talk. You can't be that daft. I just don't go advertising. Why not? Because I don't run a business. I don't need to run an advertising campaign to stay afloat. If I get some new friends, that's fine. If not, that's fine too. I am not desperate by any means. I am certainly not closed to the possibility though, and if anyone is sincere, my offer stands. If I like you a lot and I am feeling up for it, maybe I'll even cook you some borsh. I can make a damn fine borsh. I can't cook anything except that one dish, which I learned how to cook because I cannot part from it.

I see. So you're telling me you've never learned anything from friends? The only time you are learning is when you're in the presence of a formalized teacher figure? Maybe your friends are all idiots who are incapable of ever teaching you anything. I suppose that's possible. In my experience, some of my most productive and memorable learnings occurred with friends rather than teachers. I do love to argue, but I never twist words. I just don't agree with a lot of things people say. Don't blame me. Someone here is asking a question about money in spiritual relationships. Essentially, as I understand it, the question is whether or not all spiritually beneficial relationships are businesslike. My answer is an emphatic "no". I am saying that the most productive relationships are informal and like those of friends or even best friends. Within the context of such relationship it's very good to learn and grow. Some people cannot take their friend seriously though. Such people require a teacher to appear within a formalized role defined strictly as a "teacher". That's because the amount of respect and open-mindedness is limited. However, if as a student you are receptive, open-minded, and able to respect anyone regardless of their formal status, then the best environment bar none is that of informal friendship. Within an informal friendship relationship there are no barriers to learning. Within formalized relationship there are psychological barriers; it's not the most efficient way possible. Just my opinion. Not at all. How is it lopsided? Are you telling me that your friends never taught you anything out of the goodness of their heart because it was fun? Teaching is fun. It's not a chore. If some person thinks that teacher is such a chore that they need to get paid, such person should not be a teacher. Such person will be a terrible teacher. Same here. I would do that if anyone lives close to me. Anyone in Burbank, California want to go out for dinner? We'll chat and be friendly. I won't be formally teaching anything, but if you learn something, that's great. The only thing is, it has to be fun, like any friend activity. No biggie. If we all enjoy it, I don't see a problem. If I was starving, of course I would hope my friends would help me. But if I am not starving, I don't see a problem. I'm not an extremist. Business is a good thing, and I buy many things myself. However, what's bad is when business invades every sphere of life. Some families treat their kids like business too. For example, if they bring good grades, they get paid. They get paid for taking out trash and mowing the lawn. That's terrible. This destroys the family relationship and replaces it with a cold business relationship. To bring this kind of relationship into the realm of the spiritual wisdom is dangerous. It's possible, but one must be very careful. It's not advisable if the highest spiritual wisdom is your goal. It's OK if you just want to learn a concrete skill, like heating up objects or like healing techniques. Don't take what I said about payment too literally. (Do you take everything literally?) The point was simple. The point was that teachers, the good ones, enjoy what they are doing. They love what they do and would conceivably pay for it, if they were desperate enough. Thing is, most teachers think that what they know is really good and that people should themselves want to learn it, so they don't get desperate about teaching it. Is teaching fun? Is it enjoyable? Why someone should pay you for your own enjoyment? It's different if someone is starving or needs a home or something like that. Then we work by ourselves or as a community to enable that. But once the material needs are taken care of, and these needs tend to be very modest with most real people, then all talk about money stops. Don't flip out. Mothers are not angels. Mothers constantly ask the world of their kids. At least, the good ones do. My mother expected a lot out of me and if I didn't live up to it, she'd kick my ass same as my dad. All the other mothers I know were like that too. The only thing different is an absentee mother, but then I don't think we can say they give the world either. Being born into this world is not a gift. It's anywhere between a neutral and a curse. This world is not the best world for learning and growing. It's OK. Not bad. But not great. If you cling to your life a lot, then you think being born is such a blessing and a gift. You don't see the downside. A better approach is to avoid leaning. There are good, bad and neutral experiences in life, and thus life is not absolutely good. It's all kinds. It changes. It's not fixed.

It's very hard to know absolutely if something like that is real or not. There is technology available that can do the same thing with the cups and paper. An infrared laser, or a microwave emitter can do similar things. And that's only normal. Think about it. If everything you see is there by the power of the mind, then technology is also there by the same power. So then it makes sense that technology should be able to duplicate either every or almost every spiritual power, because technology is itself a type of spiritual power in the first place. The only difference is that tech is using spiritual power at an unconscious level, without the full understanding of what it is using. The way we arrive at a tech is by watching effects in nature. Unfortunately very little thought is spent on the ultimate meaning of those effects. Mostly people just learn how to repeat the effect, but not what it means, as far as tech is concerned. I like to believe that this guy is for real, but if you are out for rigor, there is no way to verify something like that using a youtube video.

Actually we considered that, but that wasn't easy to do. Not every charity makes it easy to do anonymous donations. Besides, they do like to get you on the hook and start mailing you crap to get more donations. My point was simple. Not everyone is hung up on gifts, diamond rings and so on. I got married without a diamond ring. If for some reason we couldn't donate anything, my wife would be OK with it. She'd be a little sad that we didn't do SOMETHING (yea, yea.... she's not perfect), but she wouldn't go batshit insane over it either. Most of the time she is extremely reasonable. Like if I forget her gift or some occasion or if she forgets mine. It's no problem. Every time I read about how women want diamond rings or gifts or other bullshit I get sad and upset. It speaks badly of the entire female gender, if true. And I don't think it's true. It's kind of like saying that all men are drunks or something like that. They are not and not even close. And I think there are a lot of decent women who wouldn't flip out if they didn't get something on valentines. One thing that a woman deserves and is legitimate, is attention. However this doesn't mean it has to be ritualized, like you have to attend in a certain way on a certain day. That's not necessary. If you love and attend to your woman day to day, there is no reason to flip out if a holiday or even the wedding day is just like any other day in terms of materials involved. Wedding is about the commitment and it's not about rings and parties. If you get that point, then you also get how you don't need a big ceremony and how you don't need any rings (blood diamonds). What a crappy, crappy thing to say. Don't you have any friends? Do your friends feel like they are donating their time to you? Ever wanted to charge your friends for the privilege of friendship? What has the world gotten to? That's fucking aweful. You make it sound like sharing in spiritual wisdom is such an annoying chore that you must be compensated for it. It doesn't occur to you in the slightest that it, perhaps...wait for it....WAIT FOR IT.... MIGHT BE DELIGHTFUL and that you might even PAY for it yourself? I mean the teacher might want to PAY THE STUDENT for the privilege of having someone to pass their knowledge onto? Does it occur to you that it can be fun? Like two guys get together to play with the car modifications, two guys can get together to discuss meditation experiences and contemplative topics. It doesn't have to be a job, like a chore, that you must be paid for. Not everything in life is a chore! I hope most things in life are not, and if they are, we must stop living that kind of life. To say that there is no kind of relationship on this Earth, other than a formal business relationship, is total and utter bull shit. This world has too many business relationships already. We don't need more business. Exactly. That's a very special circumstance. Naropa had no use for gold. He probably threw it away. He wasn't demanding it to pay the bills!! He was demanding it to rid Marpa of every last shred of the worldly attachment. Oh how different that is! It's not even slightly similar to perpetuating business involvement with the world, which is equivalent to fostering an attachment to the world and to gold! It's diametrically opposite of that.

I think it's irrelevant. There are an infinite number of unconventional manifestations that are possible during spiritual/inner transformation. To fixate on any one of them is a mistake. Further, the meaning of these varies between being completely unknown to being known solely to the practitioner. So for example, if I have a red spot on my arm, no one knows what it is except me. I can impute traditional meaning onto the spot, but it's me who is consenting to such and no one else. A lot of times tradition can be wrong too. Tradition is not always in-tune with the individual manifestation. It's possible to get any number of symptoms, like bumps, losing one's shadow, unable to see one's reflection, able to hear from 10 miles away, hair and eyes change color, body parts disappear and reappear, skin has electrical current in it, blah blah blah, etc. All of these are irrelevant. The meaning of these things will be obvious to the person they occur to, and if it's not obvious, it's irrelevant as well. These are just outward signs, or what I like to call "the shrapnel of consciousness". What you really have to pay attention to is the root of consciousness and not the shrapnel that blasts out from its daily operation. That's what I think about it. But I know very well that it's hard to restrain one's curiosity. Human beings are naturally curious and often they are curious about irrelevant things. If you investigate the root of consciousness, the root of your own day to day mind, then all your curiosity and question will be answered. Otherwise you're on a goose chase that never ends.

LoneHeaven, What you want does exist. However, here is how I understand it. In order to find a teacher like that you have to find someone who has risen beyond the worldly concerns, if not completely, then at least 70% or so. By that time spirituality is not just insight, but it translates into manifestation. You can maintain health, stay fed/content, not be affected by elements, and so on. In other words, these kind of people have real power and thus do not need money to live in the world. Alternatively, there are people who depend on spiritual "good luck", on people donating in a timely manner, etc., and those guys don't necessarily have all that much manifestation power. But in any case, anyone who spends full time on spiritual matters and who also doesn't charge any money for teaching, is rare, because the level of ultimate realization and relative attainment necessary to maintain that kind of lifestyle and commitment is high. What's kind of rare, and I wish it was more common, is a medium level teacher who has a regular job and can be your friend and help you after work. For this kind of guy/girl, since they are still part of the world, money is no problem, since they have a primary job and spiritual path is the labor of love for them. Those guys might not charge you anything, but it's hard to find them, because doh, they don't go around advertising. They have normal jobs after all and lead normal lives. So you have to meet one as a friend through good luck. Many many people are quite happy with the world as it is. So they have no spirit of renunciation and no spirit of emergence. They want spirituality to kind of fix up their worldly life, but no more than that. Most people on this forum are kind of like this, in my opinion. Not to say good or bad, but one should be aware of different choices. If your choice is to cultivate an emergent mind, then mingling with non-emergent people is not really a plus. It's not a minus, but it's not a plus. It's not the kind of community that can put wind in your sails if you want to sail beyond this world, since these folk intend to stay in similar manifestations indefinitely. And it makes a lot of sense that for these folk charging money is good and normal. And they'll tell you as much. It's consistent with their desire. Usually the people who have problem with exchanging money for spiritual wisdom are those who intend to cultivate an emergent mind. Those who do not intend on staying in this world as we know it for very long. To them, exchanging money for wisdom is like fucking for virginity or like fighting for peace. It's counterproductive for what they want to achieve. If you want to achieve a world of grace and mercy, that's a very different world from the world of "I earned mine", skill, and business relationships. In the world of grace and mercy informality is important. In the business world formality is important. In the world of grace and mercy, free uninhibited flow is important. In the business world, a very structured, "you are held to your word" functioning is important. Business depends on structures, and if you find these structures constraining, it makes no sense to engage in those structures in order to escape their grasp, at least, not long term. Finally, this world is like a test. There are many shiny things in this world. But not all shiny things are good for you. Shiny things can be of different kinds. They can be material, like cars and women which want expensive gifts. They can be immaterial, such as knowing other people's secrets, social status. They can even be spiritual, like the shiny Gurus and the shiny priests and so forth. All these shiny objects attract your attention. They want you to love them. They want you to get them. They want you to invest in them, your heart, your time, and in this world, your money. Is any of this good for you? I will say -- very, very rarely! Learn to resist the shiny objects. Control your curiosity. Curiosity is a good quality but not when it's out of control. It's not good if you feel compelled to seek initiation into ever secret practice known to man, for example. It's not good if you feel compelled to learn everything ever. Find what is truly important to you, and become curious about that. And as for other shiny things, become incurious about them. You won't be missing out! Oh sure sure, the sale is on TODAY and you MUST BUY TODAY! They always say that. But truth is, tomorrow is another day and another urgent sale. That's the nature of the shiny things. They always present themselves as unique, special and indispensable, but in reality they arise over and over again, as much as you like (probably much more than you'd like, actually, so they can get very annoying at times). What you seek is within you. The highest source of knowledge is your own mind and the highest guiding light is your own heart. If you persist, and if you're open to it, you'll find yourself some friends who will be aligned with you. That will be plenty good enough!

What bullshit. The problem is with your woman. My wife has no problem like that. Last valentine we donated some money to charity and had a peaceful day besides that. It doesn't have to be all about bribery and whoring. Not all women are whores.

Hey guys, I went to one Tai Chi class and I wanted to give my feedback. The guy there had a nice beard. The beard said "I know what I am doing". Also the guy wore very authentic clothing. I don't know what it is but it looked Chinese so it gave me a sense of confidence. And when the guy demonstrated Tai Chi moves, I noticed a pleasant body smell. Very good. Good smile. Nice person. A++++++++ Highly recommended. Would do business again.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/26/opinion/...n1Ci+ftIHPaVerA I think this is a great article and a very timely one. Very apropos of the moment.

Overall, I like this guy a lot. I think his description of the "dark force" is crude and has the nature of a simpleminded comic book story of good vs. evil. However, as I read it, I notice many footnotes where this guy has updated his understanding. So we can see that this person is a work in progress. That's wonderful. You just don't see that often. Mostly what you see is a picture of a person that doesn't evolve. Here we can sense how he has evolved over time. I like that. Second thing I like, is the kind of questions he's asking and the manner in which he examines convention. That's excellent. I am certain that he will become completely enlightened and completely free soon. Why? Because he's asking the right questions. He's gone beyond dumb mindless spiritual-materialistic practices and traditions and started looking at the core issues such as the nature of identity and the true motivation behind action etc. He's truly thinking for himself and he's no dummy. A person like that would make a good friend for any serious wisdom lover. In his thinking he's head and shoulders above 99% of the books I read, even the "highest" ones. His insight into reincarnation is truly great. Spot on. He demystified it and showed what I believe is the truth. While he does venture into crude descriptions of the dark force, he drops off gems like this: and and many many more. I'm more than willing to put up with some junky (to my mind) material if I can find gems like these. I wish more people shared that deeply of their thoughts.

My take -- the dimension's example is not to be taken literally (like the Bible). It's kind of loosely telling you that there is more than meets the eye. That's it. If you try to read any more meaning into it, you're bound to get frustrated. To determine what are you ultimately you have to ask yourself if you are an object of any kind in the first place. If you realize you're not an object at all, fundamentally not an object, then the question of what kind of 4th or 10th dimensional object are you will automatically fall away. As long as you believe yourself to be an object (a thing among things), you can continue to come up with increasingly complicated descriptions, but those are not helpful in my opinion if your job is to see through your original assumptions. So you're piling assumptions on top of assumptions. For example you assume that 3 dimensions exist. Then instead of challenging that, you assume that maybe a 4th or even 10th dimension exists, and then you wonder what do you look like in more dimension? Do you see what I am trying to say? You're moving toward more and more complexity and to do that you introduce more and more assumptions. Spirituality is all about challenging assumptions rather than adding new assumptions on top of the old ones. Just my 2 cents.

I don't think it's an indictment, but it's a fair critique. Kind of like, "buyer beware". I think it's a good reminder.

If that's true, I don't see how informing me or others on this forum helps anyone. Great, so we do have some common ground then. I don't like how you describe life as "biological". You can see bodies moving around. If you look under a microscope, you can see other smaller bodies moving around. But calling all that "biological" brings some unnecessary physicalist connotations. It's entirely possible for life to look biological and yet not be biological at the ultimate level. In fact, one time I had a dream I was working as a virologist in a lab. I was using electron microscope and collaborating with a team of scientists, etc. So it's entirely possible to have an appearance of any kind. You can have a scientific/physicalist flavor of appearance without needing physicalism to be the ultimate reality behind it. Well, it does, kind of. It does. You have to distinguish appearances from essence. If you say that for us to be who we are right now requires AN APPEARANCE of matter, that's fine, and then you're not a physicalist! But if you say it requires matter and not just an appearance of one, then you're saying that matter is the key essence of this experience, and that would make you a physicalist. Then you're a physicalist. Had you said that your body dependent on appearance or experience of matter rather than actual matter, I would not label you as a physicalist. If you're a dualist, that still means that Aurobindo is wrong. To a dualist the matter does not evolve mind. Rather, mind has its own essence separate and independent from matter. The only way Aurobindo's statement can make sense, is if you agree that the ultimate essence is matter, that matter is the primordial building block of life -- and that's a physicalist stance which I disagree with. You asked for an opinion. You got it. I disagree with Aurobindo. No biggie. I don't buy into Aurobindo's particular vision of evolution. Yes. We only need an experience or an appearance of atoms, but we don't need actual atoms or actual molecules. It simply has to look convincing to the mind but no more than that. First, it's not off-topic. Second, I am not bickering, but kindly offering you my opinion. I don't ask that you agree with me. I think it's cool if you disagree. I've looked up Aurobindo in the past and I wasn't impressed. I didn't like him as a thinker/mystic/whatever. I don't hate him. I am just indifferent or not moved by him at all. Now don't be stubborn and please accept all opinions in all their diversity. I think you should have asked "Does anyone has a positive opinion about Aurobindo, and if yes, can you then and only then post it here?" Then I would have remained silent.

You focused on definition 1. I prefer definition 3. In the circles where I hung out, translating tantra to thread was more common.

I found a cool and very simple blog post that outlines a typical Western critique of physicalism (it's based on the concept of qualia): http://consciousnesshandouts.blogspot.com/.../lecture-3.html In my opinion, this is not as Earth-shattering as what Nagarjuna writes in Mulamadhyamakakarika, but it's more approachable and still very insightful. The whole point is that matter is not the basic building block of life. Matter is a delusion of mind.

You've contradicted yourself in the same sentence. First you say your statement is not physicalist, and then you say life is built on matter. Doh! "Life is built on matter" is the core tenet of physicalism!

I wasn't talking about Aurobindo. I was replying directly to this quotation: I don't care who "he" is. Life did not evolve from matter. Period. That's what I was replying to. Also, just FYI, a physicalist is someone who believes that physical matter/energy is the only ultimately real substance. That stance is a pretty old one, and has been refuted by many Buddhist masters of the past.

Chi is life force "energy". Basically chi is the preponderance of phenomena to NOT stay still, to change, to oscillate, to evolve, to morph, to appear and disappear and so forth. I like to call it "shimmer". At the highest most abstract view, this shimmer is ceaseless and beginningless and trying to split it into sections, like which part of it is yours and which part of it is someone else's chi is a fool's game. So, to say how much chi you have is impossible, because you are not a closed system. Try to understand all the implications of that statement: you are not a closed system. You are an open system. Let me ask you this. Does it take more film and more screen to make bigger explosions in the movies? No, right? With the same screen and the same film and projector you can make a tiny explosion and you can make an enormous explosion. In a tiny droplet of water the moon reflection can be seen. How can the big huge moon fit into a tiny droplet? Seems crazy, right? It's going to be impossible for you to understand magickal phenomena as long as you think about them in terms of physics. You have to switch gears. Think of them in terms of appearances/impressions. Then you will understand! And only then. As long as you think in terms of physics and in terms of concrete amounts, you'll never understand it. That's why many Buddhist sutras talk about inconceivability of phenomena. The reason many phenomena seem inconceivable is because we have a rigid manner in which we make our conceptions. Of course someone with a more flexible mind can conceive the "inconceivable" easily. There is no "somehow" about it. Everything appears within a single field of awareness. That's the connection. Easy. At a deep level he and the people around him and you and me, together, our mind allows us to see it like that. Think about your question. Why are you puzzled? That's because you expect certain limitations. You believe these limitations are hard. But in reality limitations are more like habits rather than "hard", and with some training the habits can be overcome. The deeper the habit and the more unconscious the habit, the harder it is to overcome it. But it is not impossible.

The same thing can be said about anyone, right? I'm not special in that regard. That's kind of the whole point I am trying to make.

Interesting link, thanks. I could do with a bit less paranoia. I mean, even if the earth explodes, sure, it can happen, but SO WHAT? Is this life so so so great that we must hold onto it at any and all costs? Seriously? I love my life, but I am content to die if that's what I have to do. This is a great show, and I love it, but it's not the last and only show. There are other shows down the road. No need to get obsessed about this one so much. I do like his adventures tho. It's fun.