cheya

This is a GREAT thread. Just thought I'd give it a "bump"...

lessdaomorebum, See if it's easier to get Goodman's first book, Foundation. It's got plenty to get you going, and I'm not sure you will find the newer book more helpful. If you watch his "thirty day challenge" you tube (3 minutes!), you could get started sooner. Interesting to me, often when I do his poses, especially the lower hand pose (from the Tedx talk) I get a really good foot-to-hands- chi flow going! Very cool!

A couple more things about feeling chi... Feeling chi has been kind of an obsession for me for many years. What has grown into a pretty good aptness for it, started out very tiny. Minute sensations, when followed, grew. In his book Juice, internal energy teacher Scott Meredith writes: "You need to learn to feel and focus within yourself. It's like the kids game of cold, cold, warm, warmer, hot! You're continually either focusing more precisely and thereby strengthening the energy run, or else you're moving away from it. Just as in the game, you need to seize on even small sensations, not to fool yourself, but to check them out. Pursue them awhile. Some sensations are dead ends or self-delusion. But sometimes very minor sensations are the camel's nose beneath the tent, the first indication of a big new development." (p 104) Once you can feel it, Meredith writes, only then can you grow it. Meredith's description didn't initiate my search, but it totally described my first steps as I stumbled into feeling chi. A few other notes: a dear friend has always claimed she can't feel chi. This puzzles the rest of us, because she meditates, sees light, and has done healing in her travels to sacred sites in S.America. Still she claims she can't feel chi. The rest of us suspect that one day, she's gonna say "Oh! You mean that!", something she has felt all along, but never identified as chi. Lastly... For many years, I've been meeting with four other women in what we call a healing circle. We often talk about energy, chi, and do healing on each other, discussing what we're noticing. A year or two ago, I finally asked an obvious question that we had never discussed. "What does chi feel like to you?" Was THAT ever an eye opener! None of them described what I felt! Some got a visual sensation, some actually "see" the energy". One had some kind of astral (my word) outside-the-body knowing, and then there's my sense, usually a kind of hydraulic internal movement. All these seeming differences, yet we had been pretty much agreeing about our energetic experiences for years! That still cracks me up.

My experience in myself and others is that healing can happen, but the problem emerged from how we live our lives, mentally and physically. After the healing, if you do not make major changes in the antecedents, you will likely recreate the problem. A personal example. Many years ago, I had developed an unhealthy obsession, an emotional story that I was very attached to, suffering greatly from, but also enjoying in a weird way. In the midst of this, I ended up at a workshop with Dirk Oellibrandt, a truly amazing energy healer. The workshop was off in the boonies and oddly, only 7 people showed up for it (he'd usually get 60 or so). I almost never volunteer for demos, but with the few people there, Dirk just told me to get on the table a number of times. The last time I was on the table, he told us that he was going to take something from (off) me, but that if I really wanted to get it back, I could get it back. I had not talked about this issue, or any issue, and had no idea what he was talking about. On the table, my body jumped around a lot, but I didn't actually feel much, and was kind of puzzled. Driving away from the workshop, I realized the push behind those obsessive thoughts was just gone. It had been months, and this felt so clear and light, just no push behind those thoughts at all. After a couple hours, though, I saw those thoughts, that story, starting to creep back in. They were weak, they didn't have much gas... but there they were. They were weak, and I suddenly understood what Dirk meant. Now I had a choice, feed it again, or let it go. With tremendous gratitude to Dirk, I was able to let it go. It was a semi permanent healing. I had to mobilize focus and healthy intent to make it permanent. I see this in bodywork all the time. I can change someone's posture in a session, put the body more in line, even explain to folks how they got into the distortion, and how that distortion contributes to their pain. But if they don't change how they're using their body, which is, of course, largely if not totally unconscious, they will come back in next time with the same distortions... and the same pain. Some healers, Rosalyn Bruyere for example, report amazing healings, healings that happen in workshops and are verified by the group. These may be permanent, we don't have any followup on what happens to the person next. Do they stay healed, does it recur, or do they develop some other problem? Rosalyn says the healer can lend the healee the healthy energetic matrix the healer has developed, a new template to initiate the remodeling of the energy system. Maybe this is what is needed for a healing to truly "take". I think this level of healing is fairly rare. But I do think it exists.

Recently I went to the short workshop on Taoist Tonic Herbs, described here: http://thedaobums.com/topic/38494-gate-of-life-taoist-tonic-herbalism/ Rehmannia Dean Thomas arrived with many large bags of herbs, which he proceeded to unpack and then pass around for taste/smell/ examination while he told us about his tradition, Gate of Life Herbs, and the individual herbs. His website is ShamanShackHerbs.com Rehmannia apprenticed with Ron Teeguarden for 8 years. His little book, Elixirs of Immortality, (114 pages) has most of the history, theory, and herbs he discussed at the workshop, and I'd say is worth the $12, certainly to a newbie. The workshop was really interesting. He said tonic herbs were meant to be taken long term, to build the body and chi up, not so much to address specific symptoms, although the herbs will tend to eliminate symptoms over time. He discussed jing/qi/shen and herbs that supported each. Especially interesting to me were his comments on a traditional Chinese healers' tea, consisting of 4 herbs (dendrobium, goji, schizandra, and licorice root), intended to replace the energy hands-on-healers tend to lose as they practice. The main healers' herb was Dendrobium, but Rehmannia's healer tea, "Recharge," has a couple other herbs too, over and above the 4 traditional herbs. My interest might have ended there, but Rehmannia also offered a custom herb blend based on a pulse reading. He did a pretty good analysis by pulse, and then grabbed handfuls of different herbs (including LOTS of dendrobium!) into a fat quart size bag, which I took home to brew. Nearly 3 weeks later, I am impressed. I'm gonna be doin' this for awhile for sure. I don't know anything much about Taoist tonic herbs over and above this workshop, and will be happy to hear from others their experiences and comments. (Also happy to have this thread combined with the other current Taoist herb discussion in the thread titled "Vegan", but not under that thread title. )

Alas to say I slacked off on the tonic herbs early last fall, but I got another round from Rehmannia when he was in town a few weeks ago. I again find myself making the same comments, that I have more energy and am definitely feeling the boost. In addition to the custom bagged herbs based on pulse reading, I got a jar of "Healing Healers", a powdered extract which is Rehmannia's version of Healer's Tea. It's to be taken after sessions or just standard twice a day. I'm definitely feeling more chi running in sessions, but then I wonder if that's actually the point. This is supposed to build the healer back up, not so much to give the healer more juice to pass on to the people they work on: build up the yin candle, not just give you more wax to burn. Comments from Taoists, herbalists, and/or healers?

Osho used to say that real love needed no object. It's not that you love someone or something. You just love. Or... you are love. Kind of like the sun I guess. Sometimes I almost think I get it...

Welcome, Brian! I'm already looking forward to your input on tonic herbalism. There's an itinerant herbalist comes through here once a year, teaches us about the herbs, lets us smell and taste them, then will do a quick pulse reading and custom design us a bag of herbs to cook. Last year was my first experience with this approach, and this year I'm having the same positive response, so I'm very interested in learning more!

Thank you Gerard, both for that practice post and the article, and from that for introduction to an excellent website, http://www.itmonline.org , new to me!

This article + vid on fluoride is up on Mercola.com this morning: http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2016/05/21/our-daily-dose-fluoride-documentary.aspx?utm_source=dnl&utm_medium=email&utm_content=art1&utm_campaign=20160521Z1&et_cid=DM105855&et_rid=1494751528

Very interesting! I'll try it! Just curious, no instruction to go front to back of body? Meaning if the back hurts, look for soreness on the front in that same X pattern?

Yeah, moderation in all things…. even goji berries….

Hi CS, Not clear what you think is the problem with the first post. He's talking about making tea from tonic herbs, not juicing them. He is also into raw foods, which I don't think was mentioned in the first post, but I can say from personal experience that juicing vegetables has also helped me a lot. Have you tried it, or just read about it?

No asthma here, but my breath rate has always been very low, conserving CO2, but apparently due to low CO2 to start with, not induced by breathing too fast, just how I am. But I really disliked the feeling of holding that controlled pause! Stough's method of extending the exhale was a welcome alternative for me. But if you like the challenge, Buteyko's method is probably the more direct route to the goal. And it definitely sounds like it's working for you! That's great!

Hi imtyerd, Two weeks! I'm impressed! I didn't last 2 days…. Do you know what your breath rate was when you started? Has it changed?

I came across Carl Stough's breathing method after I got mild altitude sickness in Peru a few years ago. I wanted to go back, but I didn't want to be sick like that again, so my ears perked up when I heard that "Dr. Breath" had trained athletes not to need extra oxygen at the 1978 High Altitude Olympics in Mexico City. Stough started out as a church choir director who felt a life calling to help people develop their singing voices. In the process, he developed novel breathing techniques, using improved voice quality to identify useful exercises. Eventually the VA asked Stough to work with emphysema patients, to see if he could make their breathing more comfortable. In emphysema, the diaphragm basically degenerates, along with the bronchial sacs, and the disease is considered incurable. By retraining patients' breathing, Stough ended up curing some of them, and improving many more. That's not supposed to be possible. He just kept refining the methods he'd used with his singing students. The major method was extending the exhale for as long as possible while counting out loud or singing. That way the diaphragm had more work to do than silent exhale, sort of a back pressure. Of course complete exhalation counters the instincts in those who are literally suffocating. But breathing out all the way activates a hard-wired reflex of diaphragmatic contraction at the bottom of the exhale. By getting patients to activate this inhale reflex, Stough got their diaphragms working again. He actually had a floroscopic (??) video of one patient's diaphragm before and after breath training. Stough was asked to work with olympic athletes at the 1968 high altitude games in Mexico City. Breathing this new way shortened recovery time and practically eliminated the need for extra oxygen. Many of the athletes ended up achieving career records under his instruction, even under high altitude conditions. Many also reported entering extremely calm and pleasant states with the breathing, as well as a number of other seemingly unrelated benefits. Stough wrote a book called "Dr. Breath: The Story of Breathing Coordination: An absorbing account of the most significant advance of the century in knowledge of breathing." It's out of print, but is available used. He's since passed away, but pictures and demo videos are at www.breathingcoordination.com/ He had two videos out, and I think some excerpts are available online. Before and after video of the emphysema patients was pretty amazing, as are the reports of improved athletic performance in athletes theoretically already at the top of their game. The technique also can help asthma, bronchitis, pneumonia, and various respiratory infections, as well as stomach ulcer, heart problems, and even insomnia. You can get a usable version of his breathing technique off the web. It's pretty simple. The PT-like hand techniques he used to assist the breathing process may be forever lost, although he does have some direct students teaching now.

Rehmannia is bringing his traveling herbalist workshop back to Asheville this year, June 1 and 2, 6-8 pm, at the herb school in West Asheville. I recommend it! Info here: http://herbsheal.com/ai1ec_event/taoist-tonic-herbalism-the-gate-of-life/?instance_id=4631

Always breathing! And you try to get your elbows up next to your EARS! That's taking awhile... Getting your butt as far away from your head as possible while keeping your weight on your heels seems to be the key. It gets easier pretty fast…. I'm actually doing it 3 or 4 times a day… total maybe 6 minutes... And now, maybe back to feeling qi! (sorry if we stray off topic LDMB) This old TDB thread has some suggestions for developing the energy body, feeling chi, with various methods discussed, starting with Robert Bruce, Scott Meredith, and Damo Mitchell, and continuing with some other teachers... http://www.thedaobums.com/topic/28303-training-the-energy-body-books/?hl=%2Brobert+%2Bbruce+%2Bcheya#entry431160

I know you want to talk about Buteyko, and I apologize for adding one more tidbit about Stough's method of accomplishing a similar result (stopping over-breathing), but this old TDB thread on Stough maybe better explains what the two methods have in common. http://www.thedaobums.com/topic/9379-dr-breath/?hl=stough

Well, if you liked Gokhale's method and it helped, you may LOVE Foundation. They are very much in the same ballpark. Goodman just put out a new book yesterday (True to Form), a major update, so if you do get a book, get that one. Check out his youtube TedX talk to get an idea what he's talking about. When I first watched that, I thought his rap was great, but I wasn't going to be doing that exercise. Well, I am doing that exercise and the next one up as well, and just those two are helping multiple issues. (And I didn't think my back or forward head were my problems!) "Fixing" forward head and kyphosis has been one of my major professional obsessions for many years, and I admit, I haven't been very successful long term. I could get folks looking a little straighter going out of the session, but next session they were usually right back in their old posture. The belly work (not just releasing psoas, but the entire 6 pack area) was the game changer for my work, but it still demanded attention and focused changes in daily habits from the client, and few people actually care about their posture that much until they are in real trouble. I'm surprised and delighted in how much change Foundation Training seems to make in posture with relatively little effort/time. I'm still just doing his "30 day challenge" and pleased but still somewhat mystified at the widespread changes and how much easier movements are that have been causing problems for awhile now. Hope it's helpful to you! If you want to check out that energy wizard, pm me.

My experience with his method was very short because Buteyko is HARD! Effective, but HARD! I got interested in this breathing stuff after having altitude sickness in Peru, knowing I wanted to go back, and better figure out the breathing thing. Altitude sickness is the same issue, breathing out all your CO2, which is exactly what people would tell you to do down there! "Breathe more." NO! Breathe less! There are some more pleasant alternatives that focus on the same thing. Google "Carl Stough" (His book is "Dr. Breath"), who has a MUCH easier path to the same goal (basically stopping over breathing and preserving carbon dioxide) although he doesn't talk about it that way. His book tells a way fun story. He was a church choir director who ended up trying to help emphysema patients just breathe a little better, and, not having been told that emphysema is incurable, ended up curing some of them! He went on to breath-coach US athletes in the high altitude olympics in Mexico City, enabling some of them to surpass their previous records without using any supplementary oxygen! Anyway there's another approach that looks even easier than Stough's, which I have not tried, but which I believe will work…. besides breathing into a paper bag or taping your mouth shut at night . It uses a breathing resistance tool. Here's one version, ignore the "weight loss" part. It'll probably do that, but not the major point. http://www.amazon.com/Breathslim-Revolutionary-Breathing-Weight-Device/dp/B003VSCLR8 As you can see, I love this topic, and will be interested to hear your experience if you go hard core Buteyko! Yikes!

Hi LDMB (great screen name), One of the most amazing energy wizards I know has a pretty good kyphosis going on… doesn't seem to hamper him one whit… But, if you want to reduce a kyphosis, my understanding as a bodyworker is that you actually need to work on your gut, lengthening the distance between your sternum and pelvis in front. This allows your ribcage to rise and will permit your back to straighten out. If you are tight/short in front, those muscles act like a bow string, and your back is the bow, forced into a bent shape by the tight strings in front. There are specific bodywork techniques that can help with this. Alternatively, you might check out Eric Goodman's Foundation Training, which is another way to work on it, strengthening what he calls the posterior chain. His method seems to help just about everything structural. Re feeling chi/chee, I can recommend the Tai Chi Ruler practice DVD put out by Masterworks International. It's supposed to be one of the fastest ways to feel chi, and it's been amazing for me. You might also check out Scott Meredith's book Juice: Radical Taiji Energetics, which is his wild introductory guide to developing internal energy. He's got some really helpful raps on how to develop your ability to feel and move chi. Good luck!

You'll find more on this if you search "glymphatics". Don't know about cultivation and energy techniques… but what I remember is that brain cells shrink, lose water, when you are in deep sleep, and that water carries toxins out of the cells. Then the cells need to rehydrate with clean fluid. So required for good brain housecleaning are good hydration and deep sleep. Along with all the other good stuff of course.

Thank you Brian! Cranial-sacral practitioners have been saying all along that the olfactory nerves are accompanied by lymphatic vessels that carry toxins and metabolic waste out of the brain. And I think they also said INTO the brain. What I read was that what we smell has immediate access into the brain, bypassing the blood brain barrier. This is a huge deal. That means chemicals we smell, unlike chemicals that we eat or on our skin, can go directly into the brain: no protection. The good news was that natural smells can increase brain detox through the same pathways, if I remember, eucalyptus and rosemary being two substances that do this especially well. So the discovery of the brain lymphatics is not at all surprising to CS therapists. (Sorry I don't have links… ) That means… car fresheners, fabric softeners, cleaning agents, detergent "fragrances", and a gazillion other things, all those manufactured smells we have gotten used to in modern life…. are best avoided, in favor of the natural smells of flowers, herbs, pine trees, and essential oils. Really no surprise here. Veering a little off thread topic… another thing that allows stuff to broach the blood brain barrier is EMF. Cell phones, wifi, all of it. Arghh!