cheya

Hey snowmonki Thank you for all this input! I haven't been able to watch the video links yet, as my web link doesn't handle video, but I can hardly wait to get to town to see what you've posted! cheya

Great moves! And great music! That video is too short! Got any longer Lion ball footage?

Hi again Dainin, I know I answered this, but I'm chiming back in to say I didn't read Cohen's article carefully enough. He does delineate 3 lineages, two coming down to Zhao Zhongdao and a third down to Feng Zhiqiang. What I missed is that he then briefly describes both the Zhao and Feng lineages and gives a few ruler exercises from each of them. The front-to-back rocking comes from Zhao Zhongdao, so the Masterworks International method is coming from Zhao. The book "Special Taoist Taiji Stick & Ruler Qigong" is from Feng Zhiqiang, and those methods do not seem to have much rocking. Cohen points to Feng Zhiqiang as his teacher, the "taoist branch", but obviously knows both lineages. Cohen writes "Feng Zhiqiang's martial arts and qigong place a strong emphasis on dantian awareness and 'dantian rotation'. The ruler exercises create a palpable sphere of energy in the abdomen that slowly turns and moves in harmony with one's actions. Sometimes the sphere rotates on an axis; sometimes the entire sphere orbits around the abdominal cavity, as though circling a central point between the navel and the 'gate of life' acupuncture point (ming men)." I'm actually starting to feel some of this! I have Feng Zhiqiang's method on DVD from Fengming Wang, and there are some powerful exercises on that DVD, but I stick with the rocking methods, as the rocking seems to act as an energy pump that helps move the chi, giving more sensation of chi movement. I do a little of Fengming's tai chi bang (or stick), especially the exercise called "shaking heavenly pillar." It reminds me of a witch stirring a cauldron! I'm still doing the Masterworks International TCR version every day, and continue to see benefits. I went back to Franztis' cloud hands exercise, which I was doing a few years ago, and my experience now is very different, as I can usually contact the chi immediately. I can feel how "the descending hand causes the ascending hand to rise" which I never could before. I credit tai chi ruler for the increased chi sensitivity. Good stuff!

Hi Seeker, Too funny! I'm gonna get one of those facial rollers on the site Cat linked to, and then I will be "rolling my eyes" for real! Well, *around* my eyes anyway... Nice to know some TaoBums are so close! cheya

Hi Cat I've been rolling my eyes about these things for a couple years now, but your post definitely has made me curious! What do you notice using these things? Do you recommend a special brand? The most useful tool to start with? Thanks, cheya (I'm starting to think that I need to see my "eye-rolling" response to anything as a definite cue to look further into it! So many great parts of my life seem to start with me rolling my eyes about it!)

Osho's Dynamic Meditation has five stages, all done blindfolded to some driving heavy beat music. (Best to get their CD if you really want to do it.) When you read the description, you will probably think, like I first did, that it's totally wacko. Especially at 6 am like they did it in Poona! But that's a good time. Still close to dreamtime, your rational mind usually hasn't got a great grip on you yet! In the first 10 minute segment, you breathe in and out through your nose as fast as you can, pumping with your elbows, and concentrating on your exhalation. (Have a tissue handy) After ten minutes of this, the music changes, and you go into the second stage. Second stage, 10 minutes, catharsis! You just explode into whatever you're feeling, which has been energized by all that breathing. Screaming, laughing, sobbing, pounding pillows, gibberish, rolling on the floor, stomping, whatever comes up you act it out. If you don't feel anything you pretend and act that out, which will often surprise you at the intensity of what emerges from what was originally just pretending. The music changes again, and you shift to the third stage (this is the one that can be hard to shift gears if you've really gone into the catharsis.) Third stage, 10 minutes. You raise your arms over your head and jump up and down, shouting Hoo!...Hoo!...Hoo! each time you come down hard on your heels, letting the sound hammer deep into your belly. (This is the one that takes incredible physical stamina to continue for 10 minutes full speed. It's actually a kind of sufi technique. When your body gets strong enough, this can feel like you are BEING jumped, ecstatic. ) This ends in a loud command "STOP!!!!" followed by silence. You freeze in whatever position you are in, theoretically standing with your arms over your head for the next 15 minutes. Fourth stage. You stand there for 15 minutes in silence. You just watch. Then the music comes back, and you get the fifth stage, where you get to dance. Celebrate! (For some, they're just celebrating that it's OVER!) 15 minutes of great flowing music. If you have really gone for it through all these stages, you won't believe how free and light you feel. Well, anyway, that's what happens to me. I love Dynamic.

This is very helpful to me. Thank you!

Hi Jeffrito, Briefly, I have both DVDs and much prefer the Masterworks International version. So as not to pull this thread too far off topic, you can learn more on the ruler threads here: http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?/topic/18710-tai-chi-ruler-activates-the-8-extraordinary-channels/ and here: http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?/topic/18107-tai-chi-ruler/ Also, an excellent qigong DVD for beginners is Roger Jahnke's "Awakening and Mastering the Medicine Within."

Yes, Creation, and I'm still doing this tai chi ruler practice every day almost a whole year later! Tai Chi Ruler (along with the chinese energy balls and some Tai Chi Bang) has dramatically increased my feeling of chi circulation. Of course this practice follows a number of other excellent practices done before (best were Bruce Frantzis' Energy Gates and Dragon and Tiger forms), and each new practice builds on what was accomplished before. I do the movements much slower than demonstrated on the Tai Chi Ruler DVD. Matching the speed of the movement to the speed of the chi moving in my body really enhances the practice.

Hi Sinfest, Two things that may help. If you're a side sleeper, try making your pillow thick enough to keep your spine relatively straight as you lie on your side, meaning your head should not be dropping down toward the mattress. To do that, the pillow needs to be about the width of the distance between the tip of your shoulder and your ear. Then it has to be firm enough not to compress much with your head on it. A pillow that thick isn't going to be very comfortable if you roll onto your back though! You could have a shaped pillow that is thin (or soft) in the middle and thick and firm on the sides... Or put fat pillows on either side of your head with a gap in the middle... Another thing that helps a lot of folks is to pull the bottom corner of the pillow (the "tail") up between your shoulder and your chin (so your shoulder is under the corner of the pillow). That keeps you from folding your head over against your shoulder, allowing muscles to shorten and pull your neck out of line. Hope that helps!

763 Interesting, I didn't see the other answers when this popped into my mind. There must be some 7's in that number! cheya

Hi Anamatva, Does Mitchell say more about breathing qi in and out the same way we breathe air? Regarding the rotating dantien, the book Special Taoist Taiji Stick and Ruler Qigong seems to be about training dantien, which involves doing outer motions with the tai chi ruler and tai chi stick (bang) that entrain the movement of the dantien(s). Yang's Tai Chi Ball practice is also "training dantien". What's more, the dantien(s) rotate in different axes, not just the horizontal in an MCO orientation, but also vertical axis (belt channels) and spiraling as well. Does Mitchell talk about any other axes of rotation? Does his book go into methods of training dantien to rotate? Great topic!

Hey, K When you're talking aboutdifferent types of respiration, are you talking about chi respiration (or different kinds of chi circulation) different from breathing? Or maybe I should say breathing as only one kind of respiration, the air chi? Sorry, I'm not being very clear what I'm trying to ask. Let me try from another direction... Lately, doing the tai chi ruler practice, it's very clear there is a chi circulation from the heels/feet that is very palpable but not linked to breathing/ respiration. I CAN link the two, but they are separate phenomena. I have been calling that a chi pumping action from a rocking action in the feet, and I'm really interested in anybody's description of similar observation, maybe even with light chi from the eyes, or heaven chi from baihui. Pumps for other kinds or sources of chi. Is that what you're talking about? Is that what your Bodhri link refers to? (I tried to find the link you mention, but the search function is fairly hopeless with my slow computer. When I have time I'll plow through that long Bodhri thread on circulation being a waste of time to see if I can find it.) Thank you for any clues!

Well, Mal, Seems to me you DO use that "calm part" (of Mal-colm)... A LOT! Especially lately! You've been a great moderator, and I've been continually astonished at the balance, resilience, and forbearance you regularly display in the face of immense provocation. I'm saddened to hear your decision to drop out of the mod squad. I wouldn't feel so sad if you were dropping out because you wanted to devote more time to your "other life," or to your practice, or to have time (again) to post more content on TTB. (Because I do miss your content posting, which I guess you haven't had so much time to do since you agreed to be a moderator, what with being up at all hours deleting spam for us, reorganizing the board structure, and having long discussions with other mods over what to do with the latest members "acting out" and disrupting the forum.) Your suggestion last year for me to start using the lo-fi version of TTB let me keep up with TTB in spite of my ancient browser and rural dial up connection. Simple to you maybe, but a real biggee for me, and I thank you for it! You have always answered (even dumb) questions promptly, and I appreciate your service and dedication very much. Mal, your presence has been a huge part of what makes TTB a great place to hang out. YOU ARE A PRINCE! So resign as a mod if you really need to, but please do stick around! May all you give to others return to you a gazillion-fold!

Hi BillB, The DVD doesn't say how long to spend. If I just do my own pace, it takes about 45 minutes. If I'm short on time I can get it down to 10-15 minutes, but I REALLY have to concentrate and use a timer. I like to feel the chi movement in each of the six sections, and then I like to just hang out in that sensation once it's established. If I'm in a hurry, then I just don't hang out. I only have to shorten the practice maybe twice a week. Feng's book said do it five minutes each morning and night! There are additional variations you can do with each movement, and if you want a shortened practice, you can skip them. But they expand the breadth of the energy movement and work on the middle and upper dantiens, so I like to include them too. The longer I've been doing it, the easier it is to get to the chi sensation for each movement, and the faster I COULD do it.... but the slower I WANT to do it!

Hi Dainin, Yes, I do the practice more slowly than shown on the DVD as well. I don't feel the chi flow in meridians, or even in the vessels themselves in a specific way, more in a larger flow. Interestingly, in Feng Zhiqiang's book, he talks about that, that it is a MUCH larger flow than just in the meridians, more like a flood than a river! That puts me in mind of the "Great Thoroughfare" theory. I got Feng Zhiqiang's book too, and at first thought it was a waste for me, as it is SUCH an awkward translation! But then I kept coming back to it, and gradually I start to fall in harmony with the translator and understand what he is getting at, even if the language is awkward. Now I'm finding it very helpful. I THINK I have Feng's DVD coming in the mail, if I ordered the right one, and look forward to working with that as well. You can tell from Feng's book that many of the exercises are similar to the EEV DVD, but none have that rocking movement AFAICS. I think Ken Cohen's version may use the rocking movement throughout as well, but haven't been able to find a copy of that version. (I'm very interested in that rocking movement as DVD says it is specifically cultivating the yin and yang qiao vessels, the ones mentioned in connection to the Great Thoroughfare.) I'm also exploring Yang's Tai Chi Ball, as the ruler and ball practices seem to have many principles in common. The ball practice is too hard on my knees to do much, but offers much to apply to the TCR practice. I'm also looking at tai chi bang (stick), which is supposed to be the yang "brother" of the more yin ruler practice. But my daily practice is the EEV TCR preceeded by a quick session with the Chinese chiming hand balls, using the TCR rocking stance. Gets those currents flowing right away! I can see how primordial would do similar. I'll be interested in your experience with Feng's version!

Hi Rene, I've never noticed energy effect from solid balls, not from the metal ones, not even jade mineral ones (which makes me think I need to work on my tuning...) I tried twirling pool cue balls too, and though I could twirl them, no juice. The 3 inchers I'm talking about are chiming, and if you're sensitive to the energetic effect, they pack quite a wallop! Solid or chiming, they're all good for dexterity, and a surprisingly good workout for the forearms, since you're using them palm up and working muscles few of us use. Twirling the balls is reputed to help carpel tunnel and computer-neck too. But I'd always go for heavy chiming ones, as the added vibration has been the key for me.

Hey, Informer, Goosebumps are associated with endorphin release (maybe explaining the addictive nature of the experience!). Google those together for some interesting hits. Here is one of the best I found: a whole thread about people who can create goosebumps at will, with scientific research papers to boot! (lots of it is in response to music, but others as well) indicating the physiology and brain changes involved! Here's the URL to get started: http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=428.150

Finally! A thread on goosebumps! Years ago, after a particularly amazing meditation session in a workshop, I told my teacher that I had chills the whole time. He laughed and said "That's chi! Look!" And he showed me his forearm, suddenly full of goosebumps. Goosebumps (I call them chills) have helped lead/direct/define my chi practices ever since. Anything gives me chills, I'm interested. Over time, the sensation has expanded to more inner sensations, and moves in great tides and flows all over the body. I love it, and often say I'm a chills junkie. I like that you differentiate that the goosebumps are the result of the chi movement, not the actual chi.

Wow, Steve! Thank you for all that! What you write is REALLY helpful. Your take on it resonates strongly with my experience. "Tuning," learning to shift perception to sensing/feeling the qi sensation and tracking it, learning (hardest part for me) to stay focused on qi sensation and avoiding the intrusion of monkey mind... The sensation of qi gets stronger over time, and then some other part is learning to get "handholds" on the sensation of qi and move it. I don't do this much yet, as the qi seems to have its own agenda, and it feels right to allow that agenda, rather than letting my mind impose some other. All I can really do is show up for practice and pay the best attention I can with whatever part of me does this sensing and tracking. The qi feels stronger the more my awareness accompanies its movement. It seems to be clearing out channels in my body, like water cleaning out clogged streams, so the flow is faster and/or bigger and not so much slowed by random flotsam. You are so right that this is very hard to wrap words on! I haven't sensed yet that the qi is storing, more like it has increased organizing capacity, like if you could get all your muscle fibers to concentrate efficiently on one action at the same time, how much stronger you would seem, but more because your capacity is organized. Making any sense? Happy (delighted actually!) to read any more comments you care to add on the subject. Thank you! cheya

Hi Steve, You're using "qi awareness" as skills developed by both standing and taiji. Do you differentiate between building qi and moving qi in a similar way to what Mal was saying? Seems like you might have a different overall perspective, and I hope you'll elaborate... cheya

Hey, Snowmonki First I'd like to say that Jahnke's phrase is "ten phases of Cultivating and Mastering qi", so the shortened title of the thread may be misleading folks about what he's talking about. The value to me is periodically checking in with his model to see where I am with my practice, what needs more attention, what I may be glossing over or skipping entirely. I remember back when I could barely feel qi, and that was the big deal. I needed reminding that there was more to it than just feeling it! Looking at his list now, I realize I've kind of skipped over gathering, but I'm doing really well on circulation, especially since I started doing Tai Chi Ruler (Masterworks International version) 2 months ago. Now I can feel and circulate qi very easily, so it's time to look for the next focus. Again, there's more to it! At my current level, circulating qi seems to automatically purify it, just like flushing fresh water through a stagnant stream cleans it out. I'm not real clear on the difference between circulate and purify in practice, or why Jahnke made them into two phases. I've gotten pretty good at directing qi, but Conserving qi, that's another weak spot! All the stirred-up qi can get my mind going really fast if my attention lapses. It's extremely seductive because I can have these great thoughts when my mind is busy siphoning off all that qi! For me, controlling thinking falls under learning to conserve qi. It's really funny watching my run-away mind when it grabs the reins! Storing and transforming lie just over the qi horizon. I really like Jahnke's rudimentary map for the qi journey. Helps me take an occasional look at the whole process from a larger perspective than the one that's occupying me at the moment. Adeha