cheya

Hi idquest, Best way for me to gather chi is what I call chi walking, drawing earth/sky energy in as I walk and circulating it. I remember holding the tree was pretty good too, but I often felt tired after doing it. I also do LTT breathing in bed in the morning to charge up for the day. Probably everybody is different. Stimulating two paired confluent points at the same time by yourself is definitely a challenge! Some of the pairs are doable if you use the stimulated hand to do stimulating(depending of course on how flexible you are!). I really haven't done this much myself, been working with the points one by one, or doing pairs with a friend. I'll experiment and let you know. One possibility is a placeholder, something you tape to the point to hold the energetic charge while you stimulate the other point. Or some energetic tool that looks like a back scratcher! Or ion pumping cords... Anybody else got any ideas on this? In the meantime, here's another article I found that speaks obliquely to your concern, and also deepened my understanding of the vessels. (This doesn't help with how to hold two points by yourself, but the author does talk about possible depletion in the article itself. The quote below is a protocol she developed to avoid depletion while you treat the vessel.) Road Maps of Our Lives: Navigating the Eight Extraordinary Vessels http://www.massagetoday.com/mpacms/mt/article.php?id=10276 "Since you can't hold all four points bilaterally (unless you are Shiva) I recommend holding the master point of the meridian you would like to affect (beginning on the right for women and on the left for men) with the master point of the couple vessel on the opposite side. Then hold the two coupled points, then the opposite master/ couple, then the two masters, ending with the original pair, each time holding for about a minute until you feel a pulse. So for the Ren Mai, use this sequence on a woman: 1. right Lu 7/ left Ki 6 (master for Ren Mai/Yin Ciao Mai) 2. both Ki 6's (left and right master Ren Mai points) 3. left Lu 7/ right Ki 6 4. both Lu 7's (left and right master Yin Ciao Mai points) 5. right Lu 7/ left Ki 6 Using this pattern of an infinity sign has a profoundly balancing affect on the meridian without depleting it. This is something you have to be particularly sensitive to with the EEVs because of the difficulty in replenishing our core essence."

QUOTE(idquest @ Mar 13 2009, 11:15 PM) "I have been massaging these 8 points for a while....I have a feeling that some energy is being redistributed inside the body. That is there is no new infow of energy just redistribution of the energy that I had had. The consequence of that is that the parts of the body that used to have more energy feel a lack of it....Anybody has had such a feeling?" Hi idquest, About ten days after I started working with the 8 points, my lower tantien practice sort of deflated. I stopped the 8 points for awhile, and then came back to it. Now both practices are steaming along together quite nicely. I'm not sure the tantien deflation was related to the 8 points, but I think it was. It did occur to me that the 8 point practice might not stand so well alone, and that intentional chi gathering would help, especially at stressful times when chi gets drained more. Heading off in another direction... Each Confluent point (aka Master point) has another associated point called its Coupled point, which is the Confluent point of another Extraordinary vessel. These points (Master and Coupled points) are often used together. Often the Master point on one side, and its Coupled point on the other side. In Jerry Alan Johnson's tome (Chinese Medical Qigong Therapy, p 211), he says to contact the Master point first, and then the Coupled point. To end, release the Coupled point first. Johnson says doing that opens the vessel of the Master point. For example, contact SI3 (Gov vessel Master point), and then BL62 (Yang heel/motility Confluent point, which is the Coupled point for the Gov vessel), hold them for awhile, and then release BL 62 before releasing SI3. Johnson says this opens the Governor vessel. (Johnson does not specify using opposite sides.) Jin Shin Do and Jin Shin Jytsu (extraordinary or strange flow practices) both use two points or contacts at a time. A friend just did an e-stim course, and they were using two point contacts on the body at the same time too. The idea is a circuit. You're running energy or at least connecting an energetic circuit between the two points. I've often noticed a faster chi response when my non-working hand happened to be resting somewhere on my body. Another thing to try. One of my acupressure-for-pain books said to press each point 20-30 times. Back then it just seemed that would take forever, and I put that book away. Now that I'm more sensitive to the actual chi flow, I notice that most points need that much stimulation to fire up. (I got the book out again.) So how about pressing the Master and Coupled points 20-30 times each separately, and then connecting the circuit described above? I'd love to hear feedback if anybody plays with the circuits...

JJ Semple, Thank you very much for your replies to Michael, which I have found very clear and extremely helpful in understanding the challenges involved in transmitting practices. Osho Rajneesh once said that if he were marooned on an island, and could only have one book, it would be Secret of the Golden Flower. The times I've picked it up, it felt like Greek to me, but, from your responses to Michael, I think I will be able to get a lot from reading your experience with the practice/process. I really appreciate the time and effort you put into communicating with us. All the best,

Well, back to a more physically based explanation, gout is related to vitamin C depletion. Stress causes major vitamin C depletion. End stress, vitamin C reserves rebound, gout gone. Try an experiement next time, if there is a next time, and increase your vitamin C dramatically, see it it helps. Right now, yahoo it's gone!

More than these two? Could you elaborate? Thanks,

Try a DLT! Flatten out some dulse and toast it gently in a cast iron skillet, just enough oil to coat the bottom lightly. Use the toasted dulse instead of bacon in a sandwich with lettuce, tomato, and mayo. I put a little omelet in the sandwich as well, and if you happen to have a few lovage leaves from your garden... Yum! Arame salad, with carrots and sesame seeds, dressed with sesame oil, rice vinegar and tamari is also wonderful. Both of these are pretty easy for folks new to eating seaweed. Anybody else?

Hey, Mike� you asked Kat exactly what I wanted to ask, and even provided graphics! Thank you! Kat, Thank you for sharing these points! I hope you can use Mike's graphics will help us pinpoint them more closely. Have you found other points with such unusual effects? How did you find them the first time? Also, Deadman identifies the point nearest Kat's wrist point as Lung 9. Chinese name: Supreme Abyss! And PC 5 is "Intermediate Messenger" or "Intermediary Courier." Anybody here versed in spiritual or esoteric acupuncture?

Hi Stig, "Return of the Warriors" is currently listed at $100! What would be your second recommendation for a starter Mares book? Thanks,

Someone posted the Taopage.org link in Taoist Water Traditions group, and I found lots of juicy links. Here are a few to get you started: Online Taoist Teachings Tao-Te-WuWei Defined Taoism Quotes Also, is anybody familiar with Master Lu, and/or read this ebook� Master Lu Dialogues on Tao and Taoism � and care to comment? Master Lu on Living in Tao Thanks

I just came across an old TTB post that might help you out. This "Introduction to Oriental Medicine", originally posted by David Twicken on the old Healing Tao Taoist Forum, is fairly extensive, concise, and FREE! The Tao Bums> Taoist Alchemycal Vocabulary Go there and scroll down to where Rex reposts David Twicken's Introduction to Oriental Medicine Part 1 Five parts in total, all conveniently reposted in one place by Rex at Sunshine's request. Sort of a Cliff's notes on TCM. Thanks, guys!

I don't think we can convince one another either. But maybe the skies can convince us. Few of us actually look at the sky more than a brief glance now and then, even to look at the chemtrails. We don't just grab a chair and sit down to watch. Give it a try before you make up your mind about chemtrails. My brother drew my attention to them back in the late nineties and, frankly, I thought he was nuts. But I did start watching the skies. A perfectly clear blue sky, and the chemtrail planes start flying. They were making parallel grids back then, or perfect Xs in the sky, and for awhile, great round loops, not at all the patterns you see with commercial planes. Back then, the trails didn't spread out into haze as fast as they do these days. Somedays I would count twenty or thirty of them at a time, all hanging in the air, still identifiable as trails. Gradually the clear blue sky would be covered with a haze as the trails ran together, and, over months of watching, I became totally convinced that the chemtrails were causing many extra days of overcast skies. Sit down, have a look. You may change your mind. Adeha

Hi Sharon, Welcome! I'm in Asheville (two dogs, no cats) and glad to see more folks from 'round here get onboard.

Another translation of TTC, Ch 38: When Tao is lost one must learn the rules of virtue When virtue is lost, the rules of kindness When kindness is lost, the rules of justice When justice is lost, the rules of conduct And when the high-blown rules of conduct are not followed people are seized by the arm and it is forced on them The rules of conduct are just an outer show of devotion and loyalty� quite confusing to the heart And when men rely on these rules for guidance� Oh, what ignorance abounds! The great master follows his own nature and not the trappings of life (Tao Te Ching, The Definitive Edition, by Jonathan Star)

Hi Spectrum, Could you post/PM the direct youtube link for the video you posted? My antiquated computer can't seem to load it from TTB. Thanks,

And yet another view, from Wayson Liao, taken from his book, Nine Nights with the Taoist Master. This is native speaker Liao's direct translation of the Tao Te Ching, embedded into a teaching novel, which expands on the actual text. (Liao claims that his translation of the TTC is informed by the oral tradition, which supplies essential keys to accurate understanding.) Here is Lao Tzu expanding on TTC 38 (lines 1 &2). Lao Tzu says: "One who possesses the power of Great Te doesn't follow the social virtue; he therefore possesses the true power of Te. Does that puzzle you? Some people can realize that social conscience, and so-called goodness, kindness, justice, righteousness, and ritual are all merely man-made rules, not the way the eternal Tao flows. These wise ones try to shut down their sense of that which is false, and dedicate their consciousneess to the feeling of the original Te. When they succeed, they allow the Te to change back again and become restored and thus connected back to the power of Tao. These men possess Great Te. One who possesses low or no power of Great Te follows the social virtue firmly; he therefore has no true power of Te." So for Liao, social virtue�working at being good�prevents you from developing Te! Heresy? cheya PS: I tired to underline the actual TTC embed, but it didn't work. In the book, you can tell what is from Liao's spartan TTC translation, and what Liao has added in his story to clarify the meaning. Liao's translation of TTC Ch 38, 1&2: "One who possesses the Great Te doesn't follow the social virtue, he therefore possesses the true Te. One who possesses low Te follows the social virtue firmly; he therefore has no Te."

I thought I found this interesting site through TTB, but search doesn't find it, so here it is for others. Extraordinary Meridian Stretching Anybody already worked with this? Edit: the links aren't productive now, but we are talking about the book Essential Shiatsu: The Eight Extraordinary Meridians, which is available used on Amazon, cheap! The exercises are described in the book, along with the points.

Hi Trunk, Ha! So I found that link on ramblin'! Many thanks to you and joeblast. This is a great find for me. Exchanging the point work with another therapist was VERY interesting. Starting to explore the sensation that some of the regulating points are way out of balance left to right, and trying to get them more balanced. Having another person hold points on both sides at the same time really amped up the juice and cleared some of the circuits. After we did all the points, we reworked the weaker/more blocked points, and found they "ran" better after all the vessels had been worked. We may have overdone it though� I was pretty stove up the next morning. I'm inspired enough to try the exercises, which are still a bit of a joke at this point, but I'm propping myself into the positions as best I can, and trying to sense the energy movement. Works on a couple of them already, and I expect them to get better. What's your verdict on the book? Will reading the book add much to the practice over just working the points and stretches from the article? The book discussed here its: Essential Shiatsu: The Eight Extaordinary Meridians

Hi JoeBlast, Some of the exercises are a little extreme for me, but the point work is VERY interesting. I've been stimulating the points for three days and notice not only that they are much easier to energize and much more equal in energization/sense of flow, but also that I am sleeping much better. Looking in Deadman's Manual, I notice one of the points is good for a number of seemingly unrelated ailments that have bugged me, insomnia being just one, and that there seems an improvement in all of them over just a few days. Maybe I wasn't running on all eight "cylinders"! Have you worked at all with the points?

Does Taoist "Virtue" have anything at all to do with concepts of good and bad, human morality? Is it something we do/practice, something we become/achieve, some essence of what we already are that has been obscured by socialization/conditioning, or????? I love what Waysun Liao says about Te: "In the case of humans, there is a tiny piece, one identical unit force of the power of Tao. It mimics the living being of the Tao, which is also a conscious being. It is wrapped inside our life, and forms the core of human life energy. Lao Tzu called it the power of Te. Te is no longer the same as Tao, but it behaves and works very similarly to the power of Tao. When it finally blooms into the mind's activity, it radiates out all over the universe, looking to rejoin the mother power." (Nine Nights with the Taoist Master, Delux Edition glossary) So another question: what has that got to do with "Virtue"? (GREAT thread! When do we get the answers?)

Heartburn remedies that have worked for me: A large glass of water, followed by another in half an hour if the first didn't work. This addresses dehydration, so it often works for headaches and joint pain too. Activated charcoal. Works great for once and awhile, but wouldn't want to take it all the time as it probably prevents absorption of some things you need. I'm a protein type, but I find that I tend to get heartburn if I neglect accompanying veggies... Doesn't seem to matter what order I eat in. A friend with serious indigestion swears by Life Extension Foundation's product Natural Esophaguard. You take it daily for two weeks and then you can stop for awhile. For some people the heartburn just stays gone. It's made from citrus oil, so it's fairly harmless compared to some other things out there. Don't know if it's available elsewhere. http://www.lef.org/Vitamins-Supplements/It...sophaGuard.html Also there's a wonderful Ayurvedic digestive product called Chy-wan-prash. It's like an herbal jam that you can put on bread or just eat by the spoonful. I like the version made by Vadik Herbs (has raw honey and no sugar) Fresh amla berries (major vitamin C) and thirty odd herbs including clove, cinnamon, ginger. Has ghee in it, so not vegan. It's billed as an herbal rejuvenator and antioxidant. This is definitely the tastiest indigestion remedy I know. Curious what you find that works!

I've recently started playing with reverse breathing with a focus on tan tien as part of a tuina chi kung practice, and also discovered Trunk's great page on Exploring the Exhale. http://www.precisiondocs.com/~altaoism/IS1...ngTheExhale.htm The practices he describes are very rewarding in terms of energetic stimulation, and combining them with reverse breathing (at least part of the time), has been amazingly effective for me in opening abdominal and spinal energy awareness/sensation. Anybody else working with this and interested in sharing their experience and/or tips they've discovered for making it even more effective? (Or cautions? This morning I had the beginnings of a headache with it just after the energy kind of blossomed up into bladder 1 on the right side.) Juicy stuff!

Hi Trunk, Yes, Chinese massage. For starters, I've been told to pulse LTT until every cell in my body lights up. (!!!!) You pull energy in on the reverse inbreath and then let it diffuse to the extremities on the outbreath. Purpose to use energy to do the tuina, as opposed to just doing the physical motions. Charging by pulsing tan tien is very helpful, and a few times I've been able to clear blocks (pain) just using intent to move energy through the blocked area. That's pretty cool, but I haven't got to the point where I can dependably do it for others. Practice. The sacral squeeze. Stopping the technique and just breathing normally while energy wells slowly up the spine. First time I've ever experienced what I can only call kidney pleasure. Now, doing other chi practices, the energy keeps gathering at the sacrum and starting up the spine. Something opened and the chi body's after it. Maybe a little off track for pulsing LTT, but very interesting chi. Thank you!

Hi Apepch7 Do you know about the book The Promise of Power, by Tomas? It's a reference tool for all of Castenada's works. So you can look up the term "assemblage point," and this book tells you how to locate every reference to that term in all Castenada's books up to and including The Art of Dreaming. There are nearly 20 pages of references for the assemblage point, in very small print! Tomas's book tells you the book, page, and paragraph of each reference. More than 700 pages of references (not text!) It's pretty mind boggling. It might not help you with the Daoist connections, but you may get a lot clearer about what Castenada was talking about.

Hi Stig, This feels really central to my current focus and practice. Could you elaborate on these connections? Thank you,

I found it online trying to Google search the actual text of Sorcerer's Crossing. It seems to have been published in Europe earlier in the year, and to be out in the states end of this month. You can google it as below. Amazon has a listing. Overstock.com is offering it as a preorder. Very odd! Untitled Sequel Sorcerer's Crossing by Taisha Abelar By Taisha Abelar, Abelar Taisha - Penguin Group USA (2008) - Paperback - ISBN 0140193677