ralis

I agree that we are not separate. However, that view is anthropomorphic and not tenable. This is an old philosophical argument and has no standing or solution. I fail to see the self importance of the human species in this short video of Andromeda.

Even though I have many disagreements with the entire Tibetan Buddhist hierarchy, at least the ultra secret teachings have been made public in many places. I received many of those back in 1989 on a week long retreat with a Dzogchen master. I can't say the same for the ultra secret Neidan practice gurus.

Have you experienced 'turning the light of awareness' around? I have. So far you have not answered my simple questions. Am I that far beneath you that you are unable to answer?

What I meant was that humans project morality onto the universe where none exists. I spend as much time in nature as I can and nowhere do I see what humans project on nature. 'Clean heart' varies culturally and seems to me to be about moral relativism as opposed to anything universal. From the quote, 'high spiritual energy' could mean living without rules.

That is an ad hominem attack and is not tolerated on this site. If you don't change the above, I will report you. FYI, I practiced outside in the sun today i.e, qigong and have continued without interruption an internal practice to this very minute. If it is not secret, then where on this thread did I miss it?

What I have seen in this thread are willing followers that don't question authority and have made untenable remarks regarding knowledge of immortals in China with visits to Russia and so forth. The guru cult fixation was exposed years ago in several well researched papers and well documented in academic texts. I have met Sufi masters, myriad Tulku's/Buddhist masters, third eye masters that offer the quickest path to God and many other frauds that come and go. This guru fixation is a transfer of power from the student to the master. Several points are relevant in this thread; authoritarianism in the guise of a teaching that will never be revealed given the secret nature of such, in this case Neidan, several participants have ignored the most basic questions, several of my questions have been answered with questions with no answer to mine, positing untenable belief systems such as immortals in Russia with no offer of proof. The cult of secrecy is what raises red flags for me. I have always asked myself; what do these so called teachers want with me, especially when they have so much power?

Deferring to a character in a 'Harry Potter' movie as a way to criticize me, has no standing whatsoever.

Excellent point regarding genealogy. Then it is not much different than the ancient European ideology of the 'divine right of kings'. Same way with the Tibetan dharma kings.

What puzzles me regarding the OP, is the comparing and contrasting of Neidan vs Qigong which is not a real analysis given that Neidan teachings are secret.

Opendao, I am still waiting for answers to several questions from previous posts.

You start a thread and expect not to be challenged as if you have all the answers. I have never claimed that I know it all. Have you gone to college and had your papers challenged by your peers? Same thing is happening here. Given your reticence to be straight with your peers here, it does make me suspicious as to what you claim to be. Opendao? You have yet to live up to that name. You do do come across as some sort of teacher. Why not answer my questions.

I have had the so called highest teachings of Dzogchen, 'rainbow body and so forth. Stop your patronizing attitude claiming I don't understand it. Dangerous is a relative term in the context of any discussion. The practices are dangerous only to one's own sense of self.

If you have truly seen 'the light' I doubt you would be discussing lineage positions. If you have seen 'the light' I challenge you to state such an experience. I will in another post. BTW, I am not talking about some New Age woo woo, but the real deal.

Nice try, but a false equivalence. The ideology of so called 'dangerous practices' is bogus and makes me suspicious.

I understand more than you know. I have taken many teachings from various traditions and realized the limitations of verbal/textual arguments. Also, I have been on personal retreats in very isolated places for lengthy periods of time. Have you? I respect no tradition that takes an adversarial position. You have stated that position in no uncertain terms. IMO you are treating others here as if they are lower than you. Your statement at the bottom of the page sums your position; "avoid false Neidan schools with no lineage and without complete methods of Xing and Ming." You have not entertained my question regarding universal laws.

Where are the immortals? If they truly are and are supposedly indestructible, then what are they afraid of?

"Clean heart"? You have got to be joking! By positing a universal moral code on the universe is a mistaken view. This is just more authoritarianism stemming from dark age beliefs. If you need another parent then go right ahead, but don't foist that ideology on others.

Opendao, Regarding your statement that Neidan is based on logic and critical thinking. If the practices are secret, therefor, any analysis is within the select group and not open for general discussion.

OP, I read the first ten pages or so of this thread, and see no summary of practice methodology for Neidan. Further, your original post starts out with an adversarial position of you and your teacher/lineage vs. other schools, false assumptions, the sum of all ignorant persons whose fate does not position them to be in the true oneness of an exclusive school, somewhere in the middle of nowhere. I forgot to add the exclusive ultra secret teachings, somewhere in the middle of nowhere.

The last part of your statement makes no sense, but my question is regarding "to directly know the laws of the universe". Will you elaborate on that? Perhaps you are positing that gravity can be controlled by such practices? How does the 'uncertainty principle" fit into your world view? Other dimensions? Relativity?

I think or at least in my limited experience, that when the third eye fully awakens, it happens in a top down manner. Therefor, every channel/the entire being, fully awakens.

Let's get back to Zoom's posting.

I don't care what a few elitist teachers think. Their ideology dates back to when it was believed the earth was flat and their world view was anthropocentric and still is. Further, let persons that are interested decide what is best for them as opposed to stating generalizations/judgments that the majority is too lazy, which is only your narrow opinion. The era of secret teachings is past and all texts should be made available without limit.

At least in my view, Zoom's detailed posts are much appreciated.

Actually my point was valid. To posit that Chinese is the only source material is a bogus argument. I don't read Chinese and probably never will. Further, most persons will never have a resource of a so called authentic Chinese Taoist teacher. Where does that leave the majority? The ideology of the exclusive group is ad nauseum. Do you have exact instruction to offer here? BTW, I am well known on this site for tearing down arguments that are based on irrational BS. Present clear instruction for all or leave the thread. Deferring to a teacher that is not present is not in keeping with this discussion.