ralis

Socialism is not communism!

John Henry Fuseli. "The Nightmare."

I do appreciate your point regarding the drought situation in California and the Delta Smelt Fish.

If you want to discuss then I will gladly do so. But, your blame that I am positing fallacious arguments will result in being put on ignore. Again, I merely asked a question and followed with a general statement which is not a criticism in general of you point.

Humans must come first? Given the complexity of the biosphere, that is a dangerous proposition.

Not in the least since I posited several scenarios in the form of a question which is not an accusation. Care to define the regulations?

Rene asked me a question in which I will comment later.

How about starting with this proposition: Why not all of us learn better communication skills? What a novel concept!

Regulations such as banking, i.e, insufficient leverage for trading, environmental regulations which keep drinking water safe, clean air, toxins out of the environment e.g. Roundup and so forth. I guess all those can be thrown out?

I said they are apropos to the discussion which is not to say that we should adopt their model (s).

I am expecting the usual drivel from certain individuals who have no reasonable basis for any discussion. Those comments will go unanswered.

The Northern European models are apropos to this discussion. Although, the posts I have read so far indicate a basic lack of understanding regarding complex social systems. So far no one has criticized the upward movement of wealth to the upper .5-1% socioeconomic bracket via tax cuts and very low capital gains taxes. “We do not live in the sort of universe in which simple lineal control is possible. Life is not like that.”—Gregory Bateson, “Conscious Purpose versus Nature” (1968, 47)

China is not playing fair? The U.S. corporations sold out the manufacturing base to China which has given China vast economic power. Coupled with the ruling CCP in combination with Capitalism, what do you expect? Capitalism is not about playing fair. Especially, U.S. Capitalism.

The Tao is not in regards to an ancient political philosophy, but the natural world, including the cosmos. The mistaken idea that Taoism is an anthropocentric ideology is a belief from the Middle Ages. BTW, I included spiritual belief systems along with the Tao. Further, the threads in question lack ethical values, in general, from most of the participants. Your point regarding Trump is not well taken in the least! However, to write a critical essay at this point is futile in that Trump supporters are blinded by propaganda and generally will not listen to well documented reason. History is replete with such examples. Words matter and have deep effects on the human psyche.

That is precisely why I have for the most part stopped participating in the Trump thread. Ad hominems, racism, misogyny, anti-Semitism and so forth tend to dominate over time. For so called Taoists/spiritual seekers to seek such a low road is preposterous.

I see you learned about gate valves which are notorious for leaking. Ball valves are the way to go, but buy good quality at a local plumbing supply and not Home Depot or Lowes. The newest generation of Shark Bites are very reliable. If you need to remove it there is a special tool available.

Have you been reading Lovecraft and hanging out in those Southern swamps?

I am stating as to how each side expresses via policy. I happen to live in the desert SW which reflects my post of one hour ago.

Just a brief response regarding Trump. He demands loyalty for himself and has no comprehension that his administration serves the country and not him.

What I see here is the error of putting politcal groups/persons in strict categories/boxes in which the categories being discussed here are in no way equal as put forth by several posters here. Further, given the penchant of a few here to claim that Lao Tzu was idealizing a conservative government gives more weight to conservative politics than liberal politics. Lao Tzu was a philosopher and in no way should be deified as some have a need to. A couple of problems I have with the current right wing; The incessant desire of deregulation so that corporate interests/profit take precedent over such areas as safe drinking water, toxic fly ash coal slurry piles, mercury pollution from coal fired power plants, mining/drilling in Utah (Bears Ear), the recent move to mine uranium on the SE rim of the Grand Canyon above the Little Colorado, drilling around Carlsbad and Chaco Canyon. This primate destructiveness is not part of a limited small government, but human greed and stupidity as expressed by out of control corporate greed.

How can the Tao be on anyone’s side? Except, persons who insist on tieing religious beliefs to the non conceptual universe.

If they were conservatives, Donald Trump is a conservative, Trump is a Taoist? You are really trying to stretch it! I was just thinking that one could really stretch this out and include other right wing despots from the past. 20th century perhaps? Addendum; The Tao is non conceptual and transcends all political characterizations. The Tao was here long before humans.

What is your basis for the above in bold? A generalized assumption for certain.

Thoughts don't create reality and are only interpretations of what is collectively viewed as reality. In other words thoughts are not absolute but inherently flawed and hardly represent an absolute correspondence of a particular thought to an object. E.g. were objects in existence prior to the appearance of sentient beings? If so, then were thoughts and meaning transmitted to the human species from so called objective reality?