Ken

I have been asked not to dwell on this subject further. In any case, I have already said enough and probably more than I should. Good luck to all.

50,000 ? I have no idea where you get that from. The seminar in Jinhua cost 3500 RMB for Chinese and USD 3500 for foreigners which include room and board, transator and 10 days of instruction.

I am not here to rescue anyone, as i said everyone deserve the teacher thay have and I can care less if they want to study with Verdesi. I am here to straighten up the lies told by Verdesi about Master Wang. Everything he has written or claimed about Master Wang are more or less lies. That's all.

I don't think there is any misguided attack on Verdesi, this is an expose on the lies told by Verdesi. Frankly no one here is interested or was trying to save you, everyone deserve the the teacher they have. Talking about illusion, i guess another lie that i heard is that Verdesi claimed he went on a retreat in the mountain last summer with Master Wang and John Chang "to die and come back again", guess what ? that didn't happen, but i suppose not many people believed in this anyway. My acquaintance asked Master Wang personally about his and IIRC everyone has pretty good laugh about it. The wild lies from Verdesi is simply mind blowing.

I doubt Master Wang has ever gone "underground", whatever that means, because a few jerkoffs accuse him of being a fraud (it's true that it still happens today in China) since his seminars are fully approved and backed by the government.

The pratice in question is Xing Shen Zhuang which is a widely practiced moving forms in China. Xing Shen Zhuang was dervied from an earlier form from the Ermei lineage by Dr. Pang Ming in the 1980s. It is a good form and i have no doubt that it is beneficial to the practitioner, so the "it works" i believe it means his health has improved. Two students who leant directlt from Pang Ming began teaching this form in the USA since the 1990s, a dvd can be purchased for about $50 and you can learn directly from them in person for a few hundreds, this is exactly the same form as taught by Verdesi as confirmed by former students of his who has seen the dvd. I don't know where Verdesi learnt it from but what he did is srite some fantastical article on the form to repackage it for resale for thousands of dollars. Of course by looking at the old posts here, his followers claim that their form is the "secret one", the only one you can get from Verdesi. This is of course as false as their claim that Master Wang will only teach you "inner" teaching by going through Verdesi.

I hope people realised that there are no such things as "lei shan dao", "Miao Tong Dao" and god knows what else. These are just names Verdesi invented in his own imgainary daoist classification system. It had come to my attention not long ago that he claimed his teacher Jiang is from "da mo pai", which is surprising since Jiang told one of my acquaintance that his lineage is called Shaolin Geng Men, I guess no one will be interested in a school called Geng Men and "da mo pai" sounds more, idk, "hotter" . And you know since Da Mo was from Shaolin, so i guess "da mo pai" is not completely wrong.

As I mentioned in another thread, the way he operates, he need to constantly come up with or invent exclusive super-powered humans "Masters".

*shakes head* . I guess Verdesi has to resort to lies and slander to keep his business flowing . Jeeze, Shen Laoshi went to Karaoke bar? He was the main teaching assistant during the day, he would be so exhausted at night to do anything else beside sleeping, but if he found the energy to go, more power to him.

Just to clarify, Master Wang has never granted exclusive access to anyone. He has been teaching people of different nationalities for a long long time. People don't know about it only because Master Wang likes to keep a low profile. For example, in 2007 Fall, way before Verdesi bring any of his crew to study with Master Wang, a group of Romanian students has gone on a special "Secret of the Golden FLower" class. In this class, 8 out of 10 (approximate number, don't remember the exact detail) was able to get to the stage where they were able to see the Mandalas. The report on this class, together with the students' drawings of their Mandalas, was published in a Journal, if i have time, i will translate and post the report here. One of the biggest lies told by Verdesi is that only through him will you get the "inner" secret teachings, that's just BS, he was only taught basic practices like everyone else. The reason of course is to keep his followers content, otherwise they will all just attend Master Wang's other more acessible classes and not pay the extra premimum to go through him . But I think Verdesi has realised that the teachers are getting more accessible and that he can't keep a monopoly, so quite recently, he offered his followers to introduce them to Master Wang and Jiang (sp?) for a nice sum of 23,000 Euros and 46,000 euros so that they can become a special student . Not sure if any of his followers fell for that bait. The problem of his approach is of course when his followers realise that the teachers are more accessble than they think, they will begin to smell something fishy (if they haven't already), so Verdesi will just have to come up with/ invent () more and more exclusive super-powered beings. edit: spellings.

I don't know Ms Li personally but one thing I do know is that she is definitely a much more reliable source of information on Master Wang than Verdesi , who had a long list of proven lies about his relationship with Master Wang and his own level of archievement.

Here are some interesting applications of Chinese Swords Techniques:

First of all I agree pretty much with the response posted by Song Yong Dao earlier. I just want to add that one need to distingush between core cultivations and applications. Master Wang has only publicly taught the core Longmen Pai training but this alone is probably the most advanced practice you will ever find. Application-wise I beleived he has only taught healing art to advanced students. Other applications are reserved for formal lineage disciple. The primary goal of Master Wang's teaching is health and wellness and for capable students, the ability to heal others and there is nothing wrong with that.

Hi L1, In prinicple, the theory of the Longmen Paia practice are available quite freely. For example, the Classics Ling Bao Bi Fa, Daoist teachings of Zhong and Lu and the Secret of the Golden flowers are all theory texts of Longmen Pai and they are quite readily avaliable to the public. The commentary on these classics are also valuable but obviously you want to find commentary written by people who have actual experience in the cultivation, e.g. Shen Laoshi's books, and not some academic scholars or amateurs practitioner wannabe. The details and nifty parts of the training are not avaliable to the public. However, outlines of the practice you can find on the internet like the website i posted earlier (that website is open with the consent of Master Wang) or Shen Laoshi's Xing Da Dao book. On that website for example, you will find the outline of Yin Xian Fa but there is no explanations of the detail. There are also detailed outline of some walking and standing practice, i guess because they are safer practice. However, i need to reiterate that these materials are references for people who have received teachings from Master Wang or his senior students. It's not for the general public to try it themselves. There are two reasons for this, firstly, trying these practice on your own without any guidance can cause harm to yourself. Secondly, you need oral transmissions in order for it to work, if you believe what's written in opening the Dragon gate, you better believe that there are great power in the lineage and you need permission from the Master in order to archive any result. The only reliable sources of information in English on Longmen Pai are Shen Laoshi's English blog and this website http://www.dao-de.org/dragongate/ I believe this website is created by Ms Kathy Li so the information in there is reliable. Ken

Master Wang's public teachings and seminars are not some kind of super secret stuff. In fact last year, Ms Kahty Li had already posted the date for a seminar last oct and application procedure and the website where you can find more infromation. I will post it again here for reference: www.daodechina.com (on a new host different from last year) In the website above, you can also find the outline of the methods taught in the seminar. But these material, alongside with Shen Laoshi's book Xing Da Dao, are reference for people who have received teachings from Master Wang or his teaching assistants. It's not for the general public to try it for themselves. You might get into problems if you do it without any authorized teacher to help you.

It worked for you ?? So you are now an immortal ? you can manipulate the original spirit to work for you ? You can let your orginal spirit subdivide into thousands of individuals ? I am afraid your experience is just the kind of self-deluded fantasy i am talking about.

I will try to post something relevant, obviously that's something that i believe is true and accurate relating to the classics and hoepfully some will find them interesting. Not expecting to please everyone though

The text itself is not a manual of instruction. You can't follow the text and do the practice. Doing so is nothing more than indulging in your own fantasy.

There has to be outside influence in any practice that gives quick effects. One needs to be very careful of what those outside influences are. Suffice to say that the human body is best suited for cultivation and there are others who want a piece of that.

Actually I shouldn't specifically mention astroprojection since i actually don't know that much about it (it just sounds something like yin shen leaving the body). If during meditation, one "leaves" his/her body and roam around, I will say that is Yin Shen roaming. (no one else can see the yin shen whereas other people can see the Yang Shen) Why do people do it? Well, yin shen roaming is also a level of achievement. During one's cultivation, one can eventually do it. There are two problems with it. Firstly, most people probably don't have enough internal strength (accumulated through practice) to let the yin shen go home. The more the yin shen go out the likelier that it mightn't be able to return and become a real ghost. Second problem is that when some people reached this stage, they thought that's it, they have ascended, and after they are dead, they realise that they are just a ghost.

According to Ancestors Zhong and Lu's tradition. There are objective ways of defining what an immortal is. There are several categories of immortals and they are (these are a combination of explanations in the classic mixed with some info i know): (1) Ghost Immortal. People who seeks short cut and quick effects follow the minor path. They cultivate until their Yin Shen can leave their body (note: most of the so called out of body experience or astroprojection i believe ) and think that they have ascended. But they are in actuality just ghosts, after they died, they can stick around for awhile but eventually they have to go back into reincarnation. When they are alive, if they let their yin shen leave the body one too often, the yin shen won't be able to come back and they become a real ghost sooner . (2) Human Immortal. People who don't understand the great Dao but who has learned an incomplete authentic method. Even though it's an incomplete method, it let them enjoy good health while alive, they are resistant to most diseases. In Ling Bao Bi Fa, you complete the human immortal method after the Mating of the Dragon and Tiger, the intercourse of true yin and true yang and the immortal embryo is formed. (3) Terrestrial Immortal. People who are half way to become a true immortal. They have the qualities to advance but they haven't completely understood the great Dao yet. They are resistant to diseases and enjoy great longevity. In Ling Bao Bi Fa, one has completed the terrestrial immortal method after the level of Golden Liquid Restoration Cinnabar. The golden liquid transform and refine the body completely from the bone marrows to the skin. (4) Immortal. (the regular kind ) Terrestrial Immortal who continue on the great path non-stop and who eventually form the Yang Shen from their cultivation. The Yang Shen can then jump out of the mortal realm into the heaven and be real cool. (5) Celestial Immortal. Basically Immortal who have done great deeds and who have made the world a better place. Just like going to school to study, most people will get a high school diploma but only a few can go on and get a PhD. The same is true in cultivation, most people can obtain some result (probably human immortal) but only very few can become a true immortal. To become a true immortal a necessary but not sufficient condition is for one to be ethical, be kind and be good etc etc. If you want to become an immortal, you need to stop and ask yourself what have you done that make you deserve it?

Hi Mak Tin Si, So I am guessing you can perform 圓光術 ? Do you need a child to see it for you or can you see it yourself ? Ken

Hey guys, I don't know where you hear this from. But you definitely don't need to be able to sit in full lotus to start Longmen Pai practice. Even just sitting on a chair in the beginning is fine. Ken

Hi Taomeow, I have only practiced Master Wang's teaching so I can tell the difference between that and falun gong. Secondly, maybe "nutjob" was too harsh a word but really please don't associate that name with Master Wang. We can chat privately about it, it's not something that I want to talk in public.