xabir2005

In buddhist schematics divine eye is the mundane worldly siddhi that lets you see more worlds, and so on, and divine eye lets you hear a higher range of frequency. You definitely aren't going to realize emptiness by hearing more sounds and seeing more fantastic visions, on the other hand it is likely to cause more attachments and delusions. All these are just worldly, mundane phenomena. Only wisdom eye that realizes emptiness is supramundane and is totally distinct from say, divine eye or ears, which are common to unliberated devas. If emptiness were something to interact, there would be a separate self to interact and a separate and independently existing thing to interact with. If that were the case, obviously it is not empty, it is not even oneness since you think there is separation. By the way emptiness and oneness are not the same thing. As described in http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/2007/03/thusnesss-six-stages-of-experience.html

Interacting with any worldly dimensions with mundane worldly faculties is never going to help you realize emptiness. More often than not they entrap one in seeking more illusory phenomena.

It is rubbish to think that you can somehow realize emptiness with mundane worldly faculties like divine eye, ear, etc. And you don't know what emptiness is, otherwise you would not phrase it that way - emptiness is the nature of all phenomena and can only be realized. It is not a thing that can be interacted with.

means he attained insight without powers, proving that powers are not necessary for insight or liberation. The transgression is for his coming to steal buddha's dharma to claim as his own sect's for fame and worship. You should sleep more lol

One needs to have right goals. If one aims for enlightenment, then understand what is the path that leads to enlightenment. It is the eightfold path. Notice that "right siddhis" is never a part of it. Buddha never denied siddhis but he never claimed that it is necessary or that it will somehow result in enlightenment. Those pursuing mundane siddhis thinking somehow they will lead to their enlightenment is on a wrong, mistaken path and will never become enlightened. They are still chasing after mundane phenonmena. Even though siddhis are not uncommon, more often than not they become a distraction for seekers and they steer completely away from the path of enlightenment into a path of seeking after more mundane worldly phenomena. That is why it is important to be clear what one practices for.

Divine sight and ear are mundane faculties belonging to devas. They are developed through shamatha and jhanas. Enlightenment is supramundane and does not necessarily confer the development of mundane qualities.

the scriptures, as I have clearly demonstrated, clearly states that powers are not needed for liberation, and do not result in liberation. It is insight, discernment, through wisdom and awareness that results in liberation. Also, karma is one of the imponderables that only a Buddha can comprehend. Even arhats and bodhisattvas cannot see karma completely. It is not necessary to know all the things about your karma to gain liberation anyway. Also, having divine eye and ear has nothing to do with seeing emptiness. It is the dharma eye, the wisdom eye that perceives emptiness so to speak - it is the insight discernment through awareness of the nature of reality that liberates, not divine eyes or ears. Divine eyes or ears can't help in this, otherwise all the devas and celestial beings would have gained liberation, of which they have not.

Btw angeloio, do read through this thread if you haven't, it is highly informative: http://dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=4052

Quieting the mind so that the mind doesn't interfere with the direct experience and seeing into one's nature is important. However it must be complimented with an investigation, like self-inquiry (asking 'Who am I?'), otherwise it becomes stagnant calmness. Practicing self-inquiry without the intrusion of wild discursive thoughts, there is no way realization will not arise. See http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/search/label/Ken%20Wilber http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/2010/12/my-e-booke-journal.html

Quieting your mind is first step. You have to clear your mind first, then, not letting thoughts interfere, ask yourself 'Who am I?' (That question may be a thought, but the investigation and the answer is non-conceptual) This is a pointer that is a direct form of investigation into your true nature. If you stay in calmness but there is no investigation, then the state becomes stagnant and no realization comes out of that. But if in the state of calmness, not letting thoughts interfere, you take the backward step of turning the light around to investigate its source and origin, surely realization will be attained. So just let your thoughts settle, and just feel and sense... then you ask what is it. At that moment, you might see your reality. But your mind must be able to settle down first. However, know there is a difference between working at the concentration level, and investigating or practicing insight meditation that touch directly the clarity and the luminous nature, are two different things.

I agree, a seriously good book... and I am still finding new depths when I re-read portions of it recently. It's very different when you have direct experience and insight and re-read them.

It all leads to the same thing. But the methodology is not exactly the same - Mahamudra being more gradual, for example. Nevertheless it is not that one is better than another, I think more important is which do you feel more resonance and helpful. I think both Dzogchen and Mahamudra are great teachings. Some people even receives teachings from both. Both requires transmissions. Namdrol: Kagyu Mahamudra is gradual and experiential, so some people think it is a more suitable instruction for acquainting people with the nature of the mind. Dzogchen introduction is also experiential, but it really depends on the student's acumen to get it since it is not as gradual and step by step. ....... Not really. If you examine, for example Bokar Rinpoches introduction section to his Mahāmudra text (Opening the Door The Definitive Meaning), you can see that there are steps such as the introduction to movement and the introduction to stillness and so on. When one starts to work with the introduction to self-liberated mahāmudra and so on, however, then you are approaching the same meaning and intent as Dzogchen (note, I received this teaching and transmission completely from a disciple of Bokar Rinpoche's i.e. Khachab Rinpoche).

You should learn it from a dzogchen teacher. Why don't you ask the dzogchen community in greece for more info: http://dzogchen.gr/gr/index.php

To answer your question in your topic title, in the dzogchen tradition, Loppon Namdrol states: 'Dzogchen is always non-gradual: for example, if the student does not "get it", as a reuslt of receiving direct introduction he or she can use the methods of semzin and rushan which are "self-introductions." N' ...This is not correct-- once you have given people direct introduction, they also receive to things-- authorization to practice guru yoga, for "blessings" and to engage in the preliminary practices for tregchod, rushan and semzin. Rushan and semzin are methods used to discover on one's own the knowledge introduced in the direct introduction. Of course, I always think is it better than people have grounding in Abhidharma before they practice anything-- but that is in an ideal world... ...Rushan and Semzin are used to find the gdangs of one's rigpa after direct introduction if one did not recognize it at that time or to renew one's acquaintance with it, if you will... - Namdrol

Plus there actually are a few vajrayana centres in greece that you can check out: http://www.buddhanet.info/wbd//country.php?country_id=63

Yes, chogyal namkhai norbu rinpoche is contactable through email, but he is a busy man so im not sure how easy it is get through to him. Pm me if you wish to know the address

Chnnr is a great teacher. Where do you live?

Ciaran teaches a direct inquiry into discovering the absence of self. See: http://ruthlesstruthdotcom.blogspot.com/2010/10/thunder-and-sunshine.html Blog: http://www.ruthlesstruthdotcom.blogspot.com/ Forum: http://www.ruthlesstruth.com/arena/

the clear light is simply the light or brilliance of consciousness, as such it is not something with colours, shapes and so on. Consciousness has the quality of illumination, therefore called light. Check this out: http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/search/label/Ken%20Wilber?m=0

However, he later went on to talk about the faults of the lower vehicles - stating the Dzogchen view as supreme: http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/2007/03/self-liberation-through-seeing-with.html The Tirthikas who are outsiders see all this in terms of the dualism of Eternalism as against nihilism. Each of the nine successive vehicles sees things in terms of its own view. Thus, things are perceived in various different ways and may be elucidated in various different ways. Because you grasped at these various (appearances that arise), becoming attached to them, errors have come into existence. Yet with respect to all of these appearances of which you are aware in your mind, Even though these appearances that you perceive do arise, if you do not grasp at them, then that is Buddhahood.

I do, and I have explained what emptiness means. I'll just dig up some old quotes: "At base, the main fetter of self-grasping is predicated upon naive reification of existence and non-existence. Dependent origination is what allows us to see into the non-arising nature of dependently originated phenomena, i.e. the self-nature of our aggregates. Thus, right view is the direct seeing, in meditative equipoise, of this this non-arising nature of all phenomena. As such, it is not a "view" in the sense that is something we hold as concept, it is rather a wisdom which "flows" into our post-equipoise and causes us to truly perceive the world in the following way in Nagarjuna's Bodhicittavivarana: "Form is similar to a foam, Feeling is like water bubbles, Ideation is equivalent with a mirage, Formations are similar with a banana tree, Consciousness is like an illusion." ... "In other words, right view is the beginning of the noble path. It is certainly the case that dependent origination is "correct view"; when one analyzes a bit deeper, one discovers that in the case "view" means being free from views. The teaching of dependent origination is what permits this freedom from views. The teaching of dependent origination is what permits this freedom from views." ~ Loppon Namdrol .......... "Generally speaking, there are two forms of meditation on emptiness. One is the space-like meditation on emptiness, which is characterised by the total absence or negation of inherent existence. The other is called the illusion-like meditation on emptiness. The space-like meditation must come first, because without the realisation of the total absence of inherent existence, the illusion-like perception or understanding will not occur. For the illusion-like understanding of all phenomena to occur, there needs to be a composite of both the perception or appearance and the negation, so that when we perceive the world and engage with it we can view all things and events as resembling illusions. We will recognise that although things appear to us, they are devoid of objective, independent, intrinsic existence. This is how the illusion-like understanding arises. The author of the Eight Verses indicates the experiential result when he writes: 'May I, recognising all things as illusions, devoid of clinging, be released from bondage.'" ~ His Holiness the Dalai Lama -------------- "E ma, the phenomena of the three realms of samsara, While not existing, they appear – how incredibly amazing!" ~ Milarepa ---------------- Simple jack said here http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/2011/06/unborn-dharma.html : I would usually sum up what's being said in this entry like this: Each moment is interdependently originated and inherently empty. Awareness and it's "knowing" aspect is also interdependently originated and inherently empty. At this phase there is no longer any association with an absolute arising, abiding, or cessation of "self" and phenomena. So each moment that arises according to causes and conditions, is self-perfected. The extremes of subject/object, self/other, existence/non-existence, etc. at this phase give way spontaneously to the "middle way;" because there is no longer an association with an absolute arising, abiding, or cessation of "self" and phenomena at this phase. Due to having insight into the unborn dharma: "By perceiving the unreality of phenomena, they brought about the cessation of the outflowing sensory consciousness. Because they cognized the unreality of their psychosomatic aggregates and the interacting conditions of the three planes of cosmic existence as originating from their deluded mind, they saw external and internal phenomena as devoid of any inherent nature and as transcending all concepts." What's your experience with the last paragraph? -SJ I replied: Hi, Everything is ungraspable, unlocatable, un-pinnable as a solid entity... Like weather, you can't say 'weather is located there' - weather is really not findable as an entity. Since there is no 'the weather' as such, you cannot say the entity 'the weather' is existing somewhere, or that 'the weather' is non-existent, since both claims predicate an existent entity. So 'it is', 'it is not', the four extremes, concepts about a substantial entity, as well as concepts about its birth, abiding, cessation, simply do not apply to all external and internal phenomena, which are simply an empty cognizance vividly shining yet located nowhere... transcending all concepts... just a magical, shimmering, luminous and empty mirage. i.e. The mirage of an island off shore on a sunny day looks there, but there is no core that can be found or located - similarly all experiences are apparent yet coreless, beyond concepts like 'it is there' and 'it is not there', it is unfathomable (since you cannot fathom a true existent entity 'there'). Since everything is an empty cognizance, there is nothing out there, or in here, or anywhere in between, therefore the cessation of the 'outflowing sensory consciousness' (I take it to mean projecting a solid world out of empty perceptions). The deluded mind is what projects inherent nature to the aggregates and the interacting conditions. Since all that dependently originates are like magical appearances, without a real place of origin, abidance, and destination, there is no true interaction of different entities - and therefore seeing from the perspective of this natural state of interconnectedness, all is self originated. What's your experience with it? ...... Haha... just saw that you wrote about your previous paragraphs. (I read backwards) Not very different from what I said.

I didn't need to repeat if you had realized the implication of views and how the realization of twofold emptiness results in liberation. And the Buddha didn't need to teach tens of thousands of verses and pages about emptiness, if emptiness doesn't liberate sentient being.