xabir2005

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My Mahayana teacher had four NDEs this life and reported the phases in how each sense consciousness disappears until there is left the Clear Light, and how one could get lost. His descriptions sound rather similar to those in the Bardo teachings, even though he did not read Tibetan texts. He also talked about how he read from other people's nde reports that they get mistaken notions of the light and are unclear what is happening and got lost in the process due to their lack of prior practice and experience. Yet he is totally clear of the whole process. So anyway... my point is that the bardo teachings may not be a mere theory for everyone. Some people may have had intimate knowledge from meditation and NDEs to know this process, how it happens, and not just once, but many times, maybe hundreds or thousands of times. Many masters who was able to stabilize in the clear light would simply abide in the state of Thugdam (or in my Mahayan teacher's terminology, the state of Ji Guang or queiscent light), or clear light, after death... for some period of time, before another condition arise and one takes birth (but at least not in an uncontrollable karmic ripening but perhaps more in line with one's bodhicitta intentions). I personally do not have intimate knowledge of bardos, but there are those teachers that do and made similar statements (even cross traditions, like my Mahayana teacher who did not read Vajrayana texts on bardo), who do speak from experience. On the thug-dam: http://www.rinpoche.com/teachings/bardo.pdf Thrangu Rinpoche: "...What will benefit the individual at the time of death? If a practitioner has been able to gain some understanding of the nature of the mind by developing mindfulness and awareness and has been able to see how the mind works and is able to establish mental stability, this practice while alive will be very beneficial during the bardo. In the bardo mindfulness and awareness of the mind’s activities is important and stability of mind is also very beneficial for bardo. When the mind is separated from the body during the bardo, it experiences a quality of naked awareness. Without meditation practice, we will not be able to recognize what is happening to us nor understand the arising appearances. With the development of stable meditation of Shamatha and the insight of Vipashyana meditation, we will be able to recognize what is occurring through clarity of the mind. We can then enter into a state of meditation at death. When great practitioners die, they are able to enter the state called thug-dam and consequently have control over death. In this state of meditation the body remains warm and the cells of the body don’t start to dissolve. These are signs that a great practitioner has entered a slate of meditation at death and is able to voluntarily remain in that state..."

In my years of experience with him, yes I would say that is true, but I would not want to discuss openly those instances where he demonstrated siddhis that I've known, he probably wouldn't be too happy. Also he privately hinted about his experiences with siddhis but refuses on a few occasions to disclose them in details openly (he did disclose some of his experiences with another friend, and I only get to hear indirectly, also I had some experiences/encounters with his siddhis), but stated many years ago that he will write a book on his experience with siddhis before he dies (don't know when or if that will even happen). Anyway, he is a very reclusive person, and getting more reclusive than ever (I asked him and confirmed that he is trying to withdraw from all activities and would prefer to avoid any more connections with people whether with business or spiritual interests), and he rejected a number of people who sincerely wanted him to be their spiritual teacher. So anything that might attract unnecessary attention to him may be unwanted. He also informed me that despite his experiences with siddhis, he has no interest speaking with those shamatha practitioners who were cultivating them, he was only interested in discussing with wisdom practitioners and how non-local events relate and help in development of wisdom... so he does not want to advertise some of his experiences lest it invites unwanted attention and interest from the wrong crowd. It can also lead to a misdirection for those immature where instead of getting to know our true nature and practice the path to liberation, we become more attached instead (he warned me that siddhis can cause more attachments when one visits 'other realms' of existence and lacks wisdom so gets attached to those realms). The only article by him that even briefly mentions about his experience with siddhis (which he calls non-local events, i.e. clairvoyance, clairaudience, mind-reading etc which transcends limitations of locality) and past lives in my blog is this: http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.sg/2007/05/different-degrees-of-non-duality.html As for knowledge of past lives, karma and such... my friend Simpo who is another student of Thusness was far more willing to talk about them in details based on his experiences.

Unfortunately the forum is hacked and gone... It was the largest Buddhist online forum then.

The transmission lies in the Buddha's words and your recognition of it. If someone else were to read it, they may not even have an idea what is it like. I had many spontaneous raptures like that since I started meditation (the second meditation in fact) when I was 14. That was one of the earlier things I discussed with Thusness, and I also created my first e-sangha post to talk about this experience back in 2004. Then when you realize non-duality... every moment, every manifestation can become intensely blissful, everything is experienced as clarity-bliss. But this is kind of different. And it can happen spontaneously, deeply, and frequently anywhere and anywhen.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/an05/an05.028.than.html The Blessed One said: "Now what, monks, is five-factored noble right concentration? There is the case where a monk — quite withdrawn from sensuality, withdrawn from unskillful qualities — enters and remains in the first jhana: rapture and pleasure born from withdrawal, accompanied by directed thought and evaluation. He permeates and pervades, suffuses and fills this very body with the rapture and pleasure born from withdrawal. There is nothing of his entire body unpervaded by rapture and pleasure born from withdrawal.

No, when you experience something fully, it is immediate, direct, with no room for conceptual mind. Thusness (2006) on Maha: "Fear is just like Self, is a process being molded into a label. What hides behind this label is a vivid process of involvement, interplay between the causes, conditions giving rise to all appearances. The activity is alive and vivid. The flow of blood, the pulsating of the heart beats, the humming of the aircon, the cold air touches the skin, awareness is all these. It is a mere knowingness without effort to recognize anything, it is one whole sensing. All true knowledge must evolve from the mere Presence." Thusness: http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/2008/09/six-stages-of-dropping.html Six Stages of Dropping First is ‘someone’ is dropping… Second is dropping appears as a mirror reflecting… Third is there is only endless dropping without footing and mental reasoning… Fourth is dropping as vivid wide opening… Fifth is vivid wide opening as everything… Sixth is only Dharma spontaneously manifesting… ...... Simpo: Dear Friends, If you want to experience non-duality, you must completely let go. That means you must not argue with yourself and you must not run away from any sensation, thoughts or feeling that is being felt at that moment. You must not give yourself excuse to be not what you are at that moment. You must not reason yourself away from the situation that you are in at that particular moment. If this persist long enough, something 'magical' will be percieved... -------------------------- This is by Jean Klein: Questioner: In certain situations in life I feel blocked by a fear which prevents me from acting. How can I be free from this obstacle? Jean Klein: First free yourself from the word, the concept, 'fear'. It is loaded with memory. Face only the perception. Accept the sensation completely. When the personality who judges and controls is completely absent, when there is no longer a psychological relationship with the sensation, it is really welcomed and unfolds. Only in welcoming without a welcomer can there be real transformation. We are in essence one with all existence; when we truly observe ourselves there is ultimately no observer, only observation - awareness. ---- “In simple openness which is welcoming you will come to accept and get to know your negative feelings, desires and fears. Once welcomed and nondirected attention to these feelings will burn themselves up, leaving only silence. “ ~ Jean Klein

Thusness: "...As for the taobum feels-like-death thread, that is not the whole practice of letting go if there is not full openness in acceptance of whatever arises, if that is the case, then the letting go process is still by way of disassociation. To be the letting go itself (letting go non-dually), wide openness to whatever that happens must be thorough; experience fully all arising the sensations, experience with the entire body-mind the manifestation of the "fear of going into exstinction"...this I believe I have told Longchen b4 "in experiencing all the sensations fully even when u r going to faint..." Yes the process of letting go till a phase do happen as described and the extinction of self is put to challenge. When the letting go goes deep, the the intensity of the fear manifested must fully and completely turn into the experience of "just the sensations" with wide open acceptance without self."

There's a difference between substantial nonduality (nondual experience interpreted through the framework of inherency, so everything is subsumed to be the one consciousness that is source and substance of all) and insubstantial nonduality (where there is no framework of subject-object duality and no inherent existence - the view that there truly exists a "one thing" is also deconstructed). Nondual experience is similar in both case but the view is different, and liberation in buddhism depends on liberating inherent view. If one does not see how a subjective essence is not needed nor exists, then it will be difficult for him to see how d.o. is relevant to one's experience. After anatta its easier to penetrate further and it is here that dependent origination is more relevant as it replaces all notion of source, agency, self/Self into the agentless process of self-luminous phenomenality which dependently originates (and are ultimately empty and non-arising). http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/2011/10/zen-exploration-of-bahiya-sutta.html Alex weith: (Third step is anatta) This also means that the first step is to disembed from impermanent phenomena until the only thing that feels real is this all pervading uncreated all pervading awareness that feels like the source and substance of phenomena. Holding on to it after this realization can hower become a subtle form of grasping diguised as letting go. The second step is therefore to realize that this brightness, awakeness or luminosity is there very nature of phenomena and then only does the duality between the True Self and the appearences arising and passing within the Self dissolve, revealing the suchness of what is. The next step that I found very practical is to push the process of deconstruction a step further, realizing that all that is experienced is one of the six consciousness. In other words, there is neither a super Awareness beyond phenomena, not solid material objects, but only six streams of sensory experiences. The seen, the heard, the sensed, the tasted, the smelled and the cognized (including thoughts, emotions, and subtle thougths like absorbtion states, jhanas). At this point it is not difficult to see how relevent the Bahiya Sutta can become. ... Just for the sake of clarification, I would like to make it clear that I never said that "these luminous self-perceiving phenomena which are craving-free and nondual are the Ultimate", if there could still be any ambiguity about that. On the contrary, I said that what I used to take for an eternal, empty, uncreated, nondual, primordial awareness, source and substance of all things, turned out to be nothing more than the luminous nature of phenomena, themselves empty and ungraspable, somehow crystallized in a very subtle witnessing position. The whole topic of this thread is the deconstruction of this Primordial Awareness, One Mind, Cognizing Emptiness, Self, Atman, Luminous Mind, Tathagatgabha, or whatever we may call it, As shocking as it may seem, the Buddha was very clear to say that this pure impersonal objectless nondual awareness (that Vedantists called Atma in Sanskrit, Atta in Pali) is still the aggregate of consciousness and that consciousness, as pure and luminous as it can be, does not stand beyond the aggregates. "Any kind of consciousness whatever, whether past, future or presently arisen, whether gross or subtle, whether in oneself or external, whether inferior or superior, whether far or near must, with right understanding how it is, be regarded thus: 'This is not mine, this is not I, this is not my self.'" (Anatta-lakkhana Sutta). ............. What I realized also is that authoritative self-realized students of direct students of both Ramana Maharishi and Nisargadatta Maharaj called me a 'Jnani', inviting me to give satsangs and write books, while I had not yet understood the simplest core principles of Buddhism. I realized also that the vast majority of Buddhist teachers, East and West, never went beyond the same initial insights (that Adhyashanti calls "an abiding awakening"), confusing the Atma with the ego, assuming that transcending the ego or self-center (ahamkara in Sanskrit) was identical to what the Buddha had called Anatta (Non-Atma). It would seem therefore that the Buddha had realized the Self at a certain stage of his acetic years (it is not that difficult after all) and was not yet satisfied. As paradoxical as it may seem, his "divide and conquer strategy" aimed at a systematic deconstruction of the Self (Atma, Atta), reduced to -and divided into- what he then called the five aggregates of clinging and the six sense-spheres, does lead to further and deeper insights into the nature of reality. As far as I can tell, this makes me a Buddhist, not because I find Buddhism cool and trendy, but because I am unable to find other teachings and traditions that provide a complete set of tools and strategies aimed at unlocking these ultimate mysteries, even if mystics from various traditions did stumble on the same stages and insights often unknowingly.

NOBODY, including lamas, gurus, rinpoches, zen masters, roshis, any funny-sounding-titles, beings you considered 'enlightened' etc, should be placed above scrutiny. I suspect Buddha would have been very disappointed if he were around, at some of those posing as teachers while behaving in ways contrary to dharma, actions which clearly show that they have not abandoned afflictions. No, merely having an enlightenment experience does not mean one has eliminated all afflictions. There are degrees of enlightenment, and degrees of liberation. And if a teacher claims (or hints) to have an enlightenment experience and continues to fuel his afflictions in mind, speech and action, that should not be defended merely because "he is enlightened and therefore all his actions are enlightened wisdom, his wanton womanizing is for tantric sex practice, his drinking is enlightened action, whatever" (what utter nonsense) as it is neither good for himself nor his/her students. To those who think "oh that enlightened dude is so freakin enlightened that he so transcends [insert vice]/[insert affliction] but continues to do it coz its some crazy wisdom enlightened action tantric whatever", here is what the Buddha has to say: MN22: “Bhikkhus, that one can engage in sensual pleasures without sensual desires, without perceptions of sensual desire, without thoughts of sensual desire – that is impossible.” In other words, it is impossible for a person fully liberated from afflictions to continue indulging in sensual pleasures. Sometimes you just have to realize that so called "masters" may be just human like the others, with greed for $$$, sex, etc. p.s. I still drink a little on rare occasions (maybe 1/10 of what I used to drink, as I no longer do binge drinking like in the past), eat junk food sometimes, etc, but I do not defend my action as some noble acts, and do openly admit that this is something contrary to dharma. However I have noticed that afflictions have generally decreased to a minimal through dharma practice, and this is something even my family members has noticed and told me (e.g. no longer have a temper, etc).

"Well, this is all great, but in Vajrayāna students are disempowered in all kinds of direct and indirect fashions which makes examining teachers for proper qualities damn near impossible. Students are put in the catch-22 of comitting to lamas they do not know or missing out entirely because they do not trust the situation. For the most part, the cultural hierarchies that Tibetan Buddhism is embedded within make it virtually impossible to for students, especially beginning students to have a clear picture of their teachers. These memes and hierarchies are also exploited by western teachers. And this is not merely a problem in Vajrayāna, this is also a problem in Zen. (In Theravada it is a little more clear since lay teachers are compartively rare and monastic precepts are highly valued.) The of course there is the taboo again criticizing any lama from whom one has received transmission no matter how egregious their behavior has been. This taboo is actually more enforced by students than lamas. So there is enormous peer pressure within dysfunctional groups to regard the pathological behavior of Dipshit Rinpoche, etc., as "awakened activity". So frankly, while I can appreciate the caveat emptor approach, we are too quick to divorce gurus from their own personal responsibilty to their students when we insist it is all on the student. " ~ Malcolm/Loppon Namdrol

Thanks for sharing your experiences... What you described is the I AMness realization. It is that direct, doubtless instantaneous realization. It is not a disappearance... it is the big Self - instead of identifying with the small self, one realizes oneself as the infinite self. Merges is probably not a good term.

Any talk of big changes in 2012 is utter new age bullshit. Any changes on your part is simply your own individual improvement/whatever which can happen any year, any time, by your own effort.

Very true... right intention to embark on the spiritual journey is very important. This is part of the noble eightfold path which leads to liberation. Actually non-dual consciousness/luminosity is very blissful, but there will not be liberation (from attachments, fetters, etc) until further insights into anatta and emptiness. This has been my experience. Reminds me of this: (Thusness) So in addition to the non-dual seamless experience, there must also be the clear experience of perpetual letting go of non-holding to whatever arises. Therefore when AEN told me non-dual presence, the NDNCDIMOP or being lock up permanently in PCEs of the AF as the key solution to eliminate emotion, pride and anger…the 10 fetters, I told him not yet, not because I am stubbornly attached to Buddha's teaching but because that is my realization and experience. :-) Also: Hi Simpo and AEN, Yet we cannot get carried away by all these blissful experiences. Blissfulness is the result of luminosity whereas liberation is due to prajna wisdom. To AEN, For intense luminosity in the foreground, you will not only have vivid experience of ‘brilliant aliveness’, ‘you’ must also completely disappear. It is an experience of being totally ‘transparent’ and without boundaries. These experiences are quite obvious, u will not miss it. However the body-mind will not rest in great content due to an experience of intense luminosity. Contrary it can make a practitioner more attach to a non-dual ultimate luminous state. For the mind to rest, it must have an experience of ‘great dissolve’ that whatever arises perpetually self liberates. It is not about phenomena dissolving into some great void but it is the empty nature of whatever arises that self-liberates. It is the direct experience of groundlessness and non –abiding due to direct insight of the empty nature of phenomena and that includes the non-dual luminous essence. Therefore In addition to bringing this ‘taste’ to the foreground, u must also ‘realize’ the difference between wrong and right view. There is also a difference in saying “Different forms of Aliveness” and “There is just breath, sound, scenery...magical display that is utterly unfindable, ungraspable and without essence- empty.” In the former case, realize how the mind is manifesting a subtle tendency of attempting to ‘pin’ and locate something that inherently exists. The mind feels uneasy and needs to seek for something due to its existing paradigm. It is not simply a matter of expression for communication sake but a habit that runs deep because it lacks a ‘view’ that is able to cater for reality that is dynamic, ungraspable, non-local , center-less and interdependent. After direct realization of the non-dual essence and empty nature, the mind can then have a direct glimpse of what is meant by being ‘natural’, otherwise there will always be a ‘sense of contrivance’. My 2 cents and have fun with ur army life. :-)

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/an09/an09.007.than.html Buddha: "[1] It is impossible for a monk whose mental fermentations are ended to intentionally deprive a living being of life. [2] It is impossible for a monk whose mental fermentations are ended to take, in the manner of stealing, what is not given. [3] It is impossible for a monk whose mental fermentations are ended to engage in sexual intercourse. [4] It is impossible for a monk whose mental fermentations are ended to tell a conscious lie. [5] It is impossible for a monk whose mental fermentations are ended to consume stored-up sensual things as he did before, when he was a householder. "[6] It is impossible for a monk whose mental fermentations are ended to follow a bias based on desire. [7] It is impossible for a monk whose mental fermentations are ended to follow a bias based on aversion. [8] It is impossible for a monk whose mental fermentations are ended to follow a bias based on fear. [9] It is impossible for a monk whose mental fermentations are ended to follow a bias based on delusion.

It is best not to believe in tales. Ji gong may be a monk or a Buddhist (that I do not know of), but if he still indulges in alcohol or behaves in ways contrary to the dharma, I do not consider him an arahat or fully enlightened. Meat is allowed by Buddha on three conditions (i.e. not killed by you, not seen or suspected to be killed for you, or demanded to be killed for you), but a monk who is liberated will not have any desire for food, taste, etc - and eats merely for survival needs. I do not think that there will be any need for party if there were no desire to do so. It is not a necessity like eating your meal or drinking water.

When you get to nondual consciousness, every sound, action, sight, is very very intense and blissful, irregardless of alcohol or drugs, the sense of self completely dissolves into everything. My shift to nondual awareness happened when dancing in the club. But this is not full enlightenment. In full enlightenment, there will not be any desires to party or seek any sensual pleasures, it is the end of craving.

What you wrote is not bad, but still you are still extrapolating from the view and experience of one mind to the eventual experience of no mind, it is still not the direct realization of anatta. (explained the terms here: http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/2011/12/experience-realization-view-practice.html ) Also, at the experience of one mind, or at the peak of one mind, the practitioner will intermittently experience the peak of non dual which is no mind - where all notion or sense of a oneness/one awareness, source, etc is dissolved into "just the scenery, scent, taste, etc". Therefore one may then know intuitively that this is his/her destiny. However, what they do not know is that what leads to true effortlessness and seamlessness is the realization of the twofold emptiness, which dissolves the false View that prevents true effortless and seamlessness. When we say "everything is an expression of Presence/Awareness", we already have an idea of an inhgerent existence despite being seen as one, inseparable, from all that is. But when we investigate on Bahiya Sutta as Alex Weith described in http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/2011/10/zen-exploration-of-bahiya-sutta.html That article is a must-read, it was truly well written. We discover that self, Self, Presence, Awareness, Buddha-nature, whatever you want to call it, is just an imputation. Effectively, contemplating the Bahiya Sutta leads to bahiya sutta leads to the deconstruction of the subjective pole by realizing that "awareness", perceiving, self are all imputed on just the sights and sounds and transient experiences - there is no inherent existence whatsoever. In seeing, always just the sights, colours and shapes - "seeing" is just an imputation for the conglomerate of direct experiences without a seer/experiencer. In the same way "car" is imputed on a conglomerate of parts - wheels, door, window, engine, etc... There is no truly, inherently, existing thing called "car" that can be pinned down anywhere. "Car" is just an imputation and the same applies to "Awareness", "Self", etc. Thus Vajira Sutta states, "What? Do you assume a 'living being,' Mara? Do you take a position? This is purely a pile of fabrications. Here no living being can be pinned down. Just as when, with an assemblage of parts, there's the word, chariot, even so when aggregates are present, there's the convention of living being. For only stress is what comes to be; stress, what remains & falls away. Nothing but stress comes to be. Nothing ceases but stress." "Self" is similarly a convention for the five aggregates, "consciousness" for the six consciousnesses, which all dependently originates. Even when we realize anatta ala bahiya sutta, this is only the first emptying... Do not think it is the end. It corresponds to point number 1 of the following points that Thusness wrote to Taiyaki: http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/2012/06/advise-for-taiyaki.html Last year, a forummer from the NewBuddhist forum penetrated within a year the realization of I AM to non dual and anatta. He is an avid reader of this blog. Thusness wrote the following pointers for him: "There are several points that maybe of help to Taiyaki: 1. First there must be a deep conviction that arising does not need an essence. That view of subjective essence is simply a convenient view. 2. First emptying of self/Self does not necessarily lead to illusion-like experience of reality. It does however allows experience to become vivid, luminous, direct and non-dual. 3. First emptying may also lead a practitioner to be attached to an 'objective' world or turns physical. The 'dualistic' tendency will resurface after a period of few months so it is advisable to monitor one's progress for a few months. 4. Second emptying of phenomena will turn experience illusion-like but take note of how emptying of phenomena is simply extending the same "emptiness view" of Self/self. 5. From these experiences and realizations, contemplate what is meant by "thing", what is meant by mere construct and imputation. 6. "Mind and body drop" are simply dissolving of mind and body constructs. If one day the experience of anatta turns a practitioner to the attachment of an 'objective and actual' world, deconstruct "physical". 7. There is a relationship between "mental constructs", energy, luminosity and weight. A practitioner will experience a release of energies, freedom, clarity and feel light and weightless deconstructing 'mental constructs'. 8. Also understand how the maha experience of interpenetration and non-obstruction is related to deconstructions of inherent view. 9. No body, no mind, no dependent origination, no nothing, no something, no birth, no death. Profoundly deconstructed and emptied! Just vivid shimmering appearances as Primordial Suchness in one whole seamless unobstructed-interpenetration."

This is a good video illustrating what I talked about: http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/2012/05/is-there-you.html

At the time of writing, Thusness has awakened. The person who helped him post that, who is myself, has not yet awakened (until 2010). "object, subject and all things intrinsically share the same essence" is Thusness Stage 4 insight. At this phase, one experiences everything as the gapless (without subject-object division) non-dual luminosity, but forms views like "everything is the mere expression of one awareness". At this point, one realizes that all differences are merely the One Mind or expressions of One Mind/one awareness. This is already different from the merely static oneness at the I AM (stage one) phase which is experienced as a static background behind all change (dualistic), but stage 4 is not yet the realization of anatta and emptiness. One is still unable to overcome the view of an ontological essence of awareness, so one sees awareness as having a static/unchanging and dynamic aspect simultaneously or inseparably. One still sees awareness as truly existing, independent, unchanging - the marks of the view of inherency (yet simultaneously dynamic), like a mirror's changing reflections are inseparable from the changeless surface of the mirror. This is not yet "no mirror" of stage 5. When you go to Stage 5, even "One Mind", Awareness, etc is deconstructed. In other words, instead of seeing "the ocean and the waves are all the same essence which is water", you deconstruct water or h2o itself by realizing that "water" has no fundamental ontological essence and is a mere imputation on two hydrogen atoms and one oxygen atom co-dependently arising. Similarly at stage 5 we realize "One Mind", Awareness is just an imputation on the process of phenomenality, and there is nothing permanent (static or unchanging) about suchness: Buddha-Nature is Impermanence as Zen Master Dogen and Patriarch Hui-Neng puts it. There is no one awareness, awareness is merely imputed on six streams of consciousness dependently arising (which Alex R. Weith explained well in http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/2011/10/zen-exploration-of-bahiya-sutta.html ). No watcher is needed or exists, the process itself knows and flows. In seeing, just the seen, no seer. In hearing just the heard, no hearer. But not only that, at Stage 6 we begin to see everything - from self, awareness, to objects as mere imputation like "water" is a mere label, imputation, convention for a conglomerate which themselves are free of essence or substance or true existence that can be pinned down in any way. I.E. No "essence or existence of car-ness" can be pinned down as the wheel or apart from the wheel or any other car parts. In other words, there is No oneness, only a diversity, only difference, and yet those difference are also empty and insubstantial. The difference between One Mind and No Mind is described by Richard Herman: "Yes, it is the absolute "elimination of the background" without remainder. It is the affirmation of multiplicity, not dispersion, but multiplicity. The world references nothing but the world. Each thing is radiant expression of itself. There is no support, no ground. No awareness. No awareness. "All dharmas are resolved in One Mind. One Mind resolves into...." There is the radiant world. just the radiant world. No awareness. That is the Abbott slapping floor with his hand. The red floor is red. Spontaneous function." P.s. There is however still a difference between no mind as a peak experience, and the realization of anatta, as I described in my article http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/2011/12/experience-realization-view-practice.html

Whatever you said is still describing the luminous aspect. The space you talk about is not to be equated with what I mean or buddhism meant by emptiness. In fact this awareness as space is already discovered in what I call the I AM realization. Then when one goes into one mind, one sees that not only is form "dependent" on awareness, but form and awareness, form and space are indistinguishable or inseparable without the slightest subject-object split. I believe this is where you are at. But there is further insight, and that is what I call the insight into anatta and emptiness. On another note, I just wrote a long post to Richard Herman from newbuddhist forum: Richard: "Emptiness is just half of it. There is no thing or non-thing called "Emptiness", there is only Emptiness/Form. The view of 'Emptiness" as "The" Absolute (akin to the "causeless cause" ) is off the mark. Emptiness is not other than Form, Form is not other than Emptiness. Form/Emptiness is single and experiential. Emptiness/Form is a descriptor of "Suchness". "Suchness" is both the holy and the non-holy... While not negating the holiness of holiness and non-holiness of non-holiness. It is the very "suchness" of those relative qualities as well." indeed. As Thusness mentioned in his article http://awakeningtore...experience.html "At this juncture, it is necessary to have clarity on what Emptiness is not to prevent misunderstandings: • Emptiness is not a substance • Emptiness is not a substratum or background • Emptiness is not light • Emptiness is not consciousness or awareness • Emptiness is not the Absolute • Emptiness does not exist on its own • Objects do not consist of emptiness • Objects do not arise from emptiness • Emptiness of the "I" does not negate the "I" • Emptiness is not the feeling that results when no objects are appearing to the mind • Meditating on emptiness does not consist of quieting the mind Source: Non-Dual Emptiness Teaching And I would like to add, Emptiness is not a path of practice Emptiness is not a form of fruition" The problem with people mistaking Emptiness for some Absolute is because they had the experience, realization, of the I AM or the Witness. It is the formless beingness or what you call the subjective pole taken as true self. I'm sure you are familiar of it. Because this experience is "formless", when they hear Buddhist terms like "emptiness", they automatically began to equate the formless being with buddhist emptiness. Little do they know, the formless beingness or consciousness has nothing to do with Buddhist emptiness teachings. Dr. Greg Goode expressed well: "For those who encounter emptiness teachings after they've become familiar with awareness teachings, it's very tempting to misread the emptiness teachings by substituting terms. That is, it's very easy to misread the emptiness teachings by seeing "emptiness" on the page and thinking to yourself, "awareness, consciousness, I know what they're talking about." Early in my own study I began with this substitution in mind. With this misreading, I found a lot in the emptiness teachings to be quite INcomprehensible! So I started again, laying aside the notion that "emptiness" and "awareness" were equivalent. I tried to let the emptiness teachings speak for themselves. I came to find that they have a subtle beauty and power, a flavor quite different from the awareness teachings. Emptiness teachings do not speak of emptiness as a true nature that underlies or supports things. Rather, it speaks of selves and things as essenceless and free." Dr. Greg Goode who followed the Advaita teachings of Sri Atmananda only later explored Buddhist emptiness teachings only after going through the I AM which later led to the nondual Brahman or One Mind realization. What Dr. Greg Goode failed to describe however is the direct realization of the emptiness of awareness. So I think some of the understandings remain at a theoretical level. When the twofold emptiness (emptiness of self of subject, emptiness of dharmas in object) is experientially realized, there is absolutely no absolutization of some "emptiness" or ultimate reality. In fact the whole purpose of (buddhist) "emptiness" is to deconstruct any notion or ideation of an Absolute, an ontological essence, a substantial reality, an inherent existence, whether in subject or in objects. And this I have written recently: "Just like to add a short comment: Dogen here relates nyo ("like"), to ze ("this"), evoking the familiar Zen association nyoze ("like this," "thusness"). He goes on to draw the implication that "like this" signifies not mere resemblance but the nondual identity of symbol and symbolized. He thus rejects any dualistic notion of metaphor or simile (hiyi), whereby an image points to, represents, or approximates something other than itself. Rather, for Dogen, the symbol itself is the very presence of total dynamism, i.e., it presents. Hee-Jin Kim, Flowers of Emptiness, note 8, p.251 I could think of one example: people liken "Buddha-nature" to be "like the moon". In actuality, the very appearance of the moon is buddha-nature, it is not that there is some hidden thing called buddha-nature which merely resembles the moon. The moon is buddha-nature, the buddha-nature is the moon, the nondual identity of symbol and symbolized. Or as Dogen says, the moon-face buddha and sun-face buddha, the whole body is the whole moon. There is nothing hidden or latent about it, there is no hidden noumenon in which phenomenon or symbols can "point to" or "hint at". The symbol, e.g. the moon, is itself the very presence of total dynamism. In fact everything is like this. Scent of a flower is not scent of "a flower", the scent does not represent or approximate something other than itself but is a complete reality (well not exactly a 'reality' but rather a whole and complete manifestation/appearance which is empty and unreal) in itself: the scent IS the flower, wheel of a car is not wheel of "a car", the car IS the wheel. The word "car" is a mere imputation, not a true reality that can be established. "Self" and aggregates are likewise. Seen in such manner, all constructs are deconstructed and what's left is just the shimmering "dream-like" (coreless, empty, illusory), luminous appearances which is all there is, but not to be confused with a dreamy state." And to this, Thusness later wrote to me: "6/3/2012 9:27 PM: John: I do not see practice apart from realizing the essence and nature of awareness 6/3/2012 9:30 PM: John: The only difference is seeing Awareness as an ultimate essence or realizing awareness as this Seamless activity that fills the entire Universe. 6/3/2012 9:32 PM: John: When we say there is no scent of a flower, the scent is the flower....that is becoz the mind, body, universe are all together deconstructed into this single flow, this scent and only this... Nothing else. 6/3/2012 9:33 PM: John: That is the Mind that is no mind. 6/3/2012 9:38 PM: John: There is no an Ultimate Mind that transcends anything in the Buddhist enlightenment. The mind Is this very manifestation of total exertion...wholly thus. 6/3/2012 9:42 PM: John: Therefore there is always no mind, always only this vibration of moving train, this cooling air of the aircon, this breath... 6/3/2012 9:47 PM: John: The question is after the 7 phases of insights can this be realized and experience and becomes the ongoing activity of practice in enlightenment and enlightenment in practice -- practice-enlightenment." Lastly, no matter how many glimpses of nondual or no mind, without going through the twofold emptying, there can hardly be effortlessness and seamlessness. This is because we have not overcome the framework, the view, of inherency. That is why we have to have direct realization of right view - after that "no mind" and "maha" becomes effortless and seamless instead of intermittent peak experiences. Also, even if one has experienced nonduality of subject and object, and sees everything as "expressions of awareness", one can still fall back to the one mind brahman view and experience. This is because overcoming the bond or view of subject-object duality is not the same as overcoming the view of inherency. One can still have the substance view that everything is of the same substance of ultimate mind. This substance view is what is deconstructed through emptiness - both of subject (including one mind) and objects. Instead of subsuming all phenomena to be a single substance - say all liquids are "made" of h2o, one further investigates and breaks the substance view by seeing the h2o too is just a convention or imputation on a conglomerate without any core (it is just a label imputed on two hydrogen atoms and one oxygen atom co-dependently arising). In the same way the difference between one mind and twofold emptiness is that in emptiness, instead of subsuming, the subject to be subsumed in, I.e. "Mind" is seen as empty and coreless, mind is no mind, but the expressions are ceaseless just like river is empty of a river-entity that can be pinned down, apart from flowing. Overcoming subject-object split/duality leads to the gaplessly intimate experience of everything as if there is no you and everything is yourself. This is blissful, but not the same as the twofold emptiness, and only by overcoming the view of inherency can lead to the experience of liberation. xabir 3:48PM Member So in effect, a true experiential realization of the twofold emptiness Will lead to deconstructing and transcending everything into the total exertion of the universe as this very manifestation or appearance - utterly clear, vivid, lucid yet no-thing "here" or "there" - nothing to cling to, and this moment of suchness upon its inception automatically self-liberates - thereby suchness is emancipated. All views are also naturally transcended, I.e. "By & large, Kaccayana, this world is supported by (takes as its object) a polarity, that of existence & non-existence. But when one sees the origination of the world as it actually is with right discernment, 'non-existence' with reference to the world does not occur to one. When one sees the cessation of the world as it actually is with right discernment, 'existence' with reference to the world does not occur to one." - Kaccayanagotta Sutta Anything short of this means one has understood emptiness wrongly, or the understanding remains at the intellectual level instead of being experientially realized, and thereby the practitioner is unable to actualize it in all activities.

Thusness/PasserBy's Seven Stages of Enlightenment

These energetic openings depend on one's type of practice, it may be more common for kundalini practitioners and not direct path practitioners, nonetheless that is not the main point - all these come and go, are just more transient phenomena that is result of chakras opening etc. I too had many experiences of bliss, seeing lights, amazing experiences etc, but these all come and go and are not the main point. Nonetheless each path of practice also aims to realize the essence of mind. Kundalini at the end leads to the experience of "cosmic consciousness". What you are talking about is still the luminous essence, what I quoted from Thusness is to realize the empty nature of that luminous essence.

I don't know why you quoted that, since nobody is talking about sleep.