matt007

Ok, I added some thoughts. Please revise your lists to make it more funner, these are not full enough of fluff and goofiness type details. Oh, I recommend rating your top ten, from most greatest to least superstar.

I've read through most of the discussion on this and what I can clearly see is a pattern that boarders on obsession from David Verdesi's detractors. I haven't seen any lies from David Versedi, just gossip being accepted as fact and second hand information being misunderstood, distorted and played back to suit the argument of David's critics. Sour grapes perhaps. And David has yet to comment here. This kind of argument, if you can call it that, has been repeated in many of the major debates here and tends to characterize this forum. Here is a writing from David Verdesi's website from a student. I found it a remarkable glimpse into a segment of Taoist culture that few get to see. Link to article ~~~ Mod action ~~~ Article was re-produced here without consent of the author, and the author asked for it to be removed. ~~~ Mod out ~~~

Really? To you? What were the lies?

Does David Verdesi has something beyond just being a good salesman. The main argument against is that it's expensive, so it must be a scam. This is not a logical argument. I'm not saying it is or it isn't a scam by the way.

I got a hold of the full version of these letters from a member of David Verdesi's website (not a student). And the full version of this latest. By the way, I'm not for or against Verdesi or Wang Liping. To each his own. I would be interested to hear more from students of Wang Liping or Verdesi on the training they have gotten. What teaching do David's students mainly practice and from which master, Da Zhen, Wang Liping, John Chang???

I've been following the Wang Liping discussion here for long time. I actually tried to get in on the training that Edward Richards was organizing a year ago. I'm told there might be another one through Richards. I found this post from Dao Zhen yesterday and found it ironic. Isn't it true that Wang Liping has charged huge amounts of money for personal instruction. I've heard that some foreigners have paid 50,000 for meetings and training with him. When I was in China, Wang Liping's name was well known and people had similar stories, so it seems reasonable to assume there is some truth to it.

You can just stop; the choice is yours. The Moment of Choice

A different 'teacher' pointing in a different way to that ungraspable 'blank.' Enjoy this one: You are your problems

A discourse on the mistake of spiritual materialism: Freedom & Desire 'This desire for freedom, for God, for enlightenment will not be satified by anything in the future." "No matter what 'I' try to do 'I' cannot get it, capture it.' 'To give up the desire for enlightenment; to call off the search; simply means to be present right here right now.' 'Where is Peace?' ...An invitation to wake up. Discussion?

Amazing that we can just stop and begin to really live fully awake, not so easy I think. Simple, but harder to apply because of the habits of mind that draw us back to the search.

Look into the eyes of peace.

She just happenes to be one of many with the same essential message. I have found her writing/talks very accessable. The name is given from her teacher, HWL Poonja, who was himself a well known student of Ramana Maharishi. The story goes that her teacher had a dream of her as the Goddess Ganga prior to their first meeting in India. Her given name is Toni Roberson. The essential message is that there is nothing to get, nothing to attain, nothing more than your current state of awareness and the truth of who you are, emptiness. The message is so simple that it is easy to miss; "Wake up, you are already free, already the all pervading self/awareness." It's a choice essentially and one that is ofcourse hard to accept because it means the end of 'you' and your story. Stopping our story or letting it go because it is an illusion and misidentification. Within the message is revealed the idea that spiritual searching, trying to attain something, be something or get something is just part of the illusion or the story we tell ourselves, and that, in reality, nothing needs to be attained; all we have to do is let go of teh story and the conditioning that comes with it. The hard part is Stopping, but really it's just a choice. I know this topic has had gone through several incarnations here, so I'm not adding anything new to the mix, but felt that partcular video might resonate here. Seems like there is a lot of discussion around reaching some state or raising the kundalini or getting more qi or just getting somewhere other than right here. Interesting? Check out the writings of Ramana Maharishi and others like him. Of course the realization of emptiness is found in many religious and spiritual traditions. For me it was a great relief to let go of striving to 'cultivate' something through a method or a system and trying to attain something and get somewhere. I see a lot of spiritual hunger here when I read through much of the discussion, so I think it's something that can benifit a lot of seekers and their current practice in the sense that it will fulfill that hunger. The Diamond in Your Pocket is a really great book that clearly explains this teaching, also by Gangaji.

Long time reader, first time poster. Nice to be here. -Matt