dunbar

easy there... i think we all know mopai is closed. i got the impression that is why edward went after david's teachers, so i don't think edward is making any claims we are not aware of.... all he said is that he learnt level one from john chang. again my question is what would be the advantage of doing this? assuming i bought my plane tickets, hired a translator and showed up at jiang's door, what am i going to get? here's my thinking. edward learned about jiang and wang liping from david's website and goes and finds them. he gets some one on one and some basic teaching.... ok, so what. any of us could have done that. i will be curious to hear more about what edward was taught and if it compares to what i've gathered about the foundation training.

hi edward, looks like you have done yor homework. that's good for all of us and we should thank you for your willingness to share, thanks.... 1- what are you offering here.... can you provide contact info? 2- what is the advantage of going through you as opposed to david verdesi who seems to have been accepted as a closed door disciple and already reached level four with jiang sifu? 3- are you offering training and if so what? 4- what are you being taught? not to be rude, but anyone with a little chinese can attend sifi wang liping's public seminars. these are not the closed door training sessions that david is setting up with liping. 5- what are the costs? what are you charging if anything? 6- so, will john chang be training you past the level 2, or are you just mentioning that to share as part of the experience that led you to jiang, etc... the reason i ask is because i'm hoping to attend david's seminar, but if you are offering the same thing for less money, then i would love to hear more. sorry to be so direct, but i thought it would be good to get right to the point.

just found this article... very well written and good info on the lei shan dao, john chang, david verdesi, etc... link

if this was such a big issue, why aren't those students coming out and talking about it? you would think at least one student would back up your position, but none have... why? in fact it's the opposite with students saying that you don't know what you are talking about... again why is that? aside from some information you found on their website, what actual proof are you offering that they are crooks? ...i don't mean to beg the obvious, but i haven't seen one student openly complaining that they felt ripped off and you are making some strong accusations or at least suggesting criminal activity... why haven't the police been involved, why are all these students who were ripped off signing up for further training? ...please elaborate...

right, now simply pointing out that someone is clearly giving false information is over the top... i'm not a student, just a member of their forum... wang liping said the man is giving bogus info and charging almost 3000... sorry for offending your sensabilities...

again, sour grapes... of course you do... if you had the money, you would be at david's seminar in a newyork minute... even a child could determine that through your writing... wait, i though you said he was on the national news in china... oh ya i forgot that you are the only one with access to youtube... i haven't studied with david... yet, but i don't have to be an authority on anything to see what a complete fake you are... here's what we found out about some of the information houtian has been publishing here: houtian wrote:"Greeting To All, Great Shifu Wang Li Ping will be holding a free public seminar From march 15-18th in China. Shifu Wang is acknowledged as one of the most Powerful Qi-Gong Masters Today & been written about extensivly by various pubilications both Here & Abroad. http://www.amazon.com/Opening-Dragon-Gate-...n/dp/0804831858 Some of the topics covered will be, Basic Incantation Practice, Qi-Gong & Development of Latent Extraordinary Functions. This is a Treasure & Rare opportunity to meet with a Genuine Qi-Gong Master & many of the Magical students associated with Him. Contact Fee $2800 USD 1st March." after you posted this, david informed the group on their forum that wang liping himself said he was not holding a seminar at that time and that your information is basically bs... and that anyone stupid enough to give you 2800 bucks for bogus information is getting taken for a ride... so much for you claim of giving free information... or correct information for that matter... now david on the other hand has taken a group to study with wang liping and the feedback from students was sound and again it's clear that david is running a legit training program... and increasingly clear that you're information is basically taken from scraps of information found on the web without much thought or consideration for the truth or other people... conclusion: you are a person with little intelligence or no morals or both...

this guy was nominally associated with david at best, old news... david met him ten years ago... do you have some practice that you do or do you just spend all your time thinking about david and looking for scraps on the web? kind of a waste of time to obsess about this stuff when you have never met david or his teachers or even any students... isn't it just a little embarrasing to go on and on for two years writing stupid shit about someone you have never met? you keep pooping these comments out like they actually had some meaning or impact on the community of dedicated individuals that are david's students... if it was all hype, why would the 30 people who studied with david in china last year all come back with testamony that david is legit... writing about the abilities they witnessed and signing up for more training? don't feed the trolls...

this is not david's teacher da zhen... the information you gave about wang liping is also bogus... ever heard the aesop fable called sour grapes... "Sour grapes is the false denial of desire for something sought but not acquired; to denigrate and feign disdain for that which one could not attain. This metaphor originated from the fable The Fox and the Grapes by Aesop, where the protagonist fox fails to reach some grapes hanging high up on a vine, retreats, and rationalizes that the grapes are probably unripe anyway... The phrase is sometimes also used to refer to one expressing, in an unsportsmanlike or ungracious way, anger or frustration at having failed to acquire something (i.e. being a "sore loser"), regardless of whether the party denies their desire for the item (i.e. hypothetical girl Joumanna being jealous of the fact that no one buys her lunch). Not including the denial of desire is technically a slipshod extension of the metaphor because it is inconsistent with the phrase's origin in the fable and the notion of the grapes being declared "sour"."

i'm very interested in this as well... hern does not know john chang or any of john chang's students... here's what i've found- no students have reached level 4 in mopai and only one has reached level three and he is the chinese chosen to pass on the lineage. from speaking to kostas and andreas as well as other students, it's clear that chang is nolonger teaching westerners with the intention of helping them go further than level 2 at all. after speaking to hern it is pretty clear that he has just seen a few videos like the rest of us and read the books... he may be correct that there are people teaching something similar, but none of them are level four. it's strange that hern seems so hell bent on discrediting david verdesi; he has not met david or any of david's students... this is strange that he would make such strong claims with no real knowledge... there are a couple other members who have written dozens of posts one is hou tian, he says knows jim one of john chang's old students, but he also said some other things that aren't true. it just seems like the negitive stuff is based on sour grapes and hearsay. the only hole i can see in david verdesi's teaching is the price, it pretty expensive to go on one of his three week trainings (the other training is not as much but you don't get to meet a master). but it does seem clear that he has reached level four and can show the skills that the lei shan dao training develops... over the past year david taught 2 of these training seminars in china with a master like john chang named jiang sifu... all of the students who attended these trainings were convinced that david is for real and that the skills he and his masters have are very real... what eventually convinced me of this is reading a letter from rene navarro. he wote a very convincing article about david and is a student of davids... and he has a very good reputation as a martial arts teacher of high level and has been teaching for 40 years. what i understand is that mantak chia read his letter and felt it was quite real and asked to know more and showed an interest in joining david in china. i have been following this story from the beginning on their forum and here and it seems that many of the pieces of the puzzle are coming together in compelling way. j

hi dao zhen, i understand you run a tour company/taoist school or something to that effect... can we see your website and how much you charge for instruction? some of us might just pop over and take a class or attend without having to be voted on by our peers. maybe we could learn a little about the master teaching you and what his qualifications are and what he charges as well. would be nice to know what drew you to him. lot's of folks in wudangshan claiming to be this and that, so it would be cool to see a sort of resume... thanks

... it's from the secret of the golden flower... germinal vesicle is just a western term for the first cell of human conception... they say there is no translation of this book that contains the methods of practice, others disagree... i tend to agree you need a teacher to show you... from what i read on the foundation forum this is part of their basic training... ...germinal vesicle, boundless country, primordial pass, etc.... you can google it.

...for some people this is simply a work-career issue...

i've been a member of david verdesi's forum for several months and it is full of information you can't get anywhere else. the guy is a tu di disciple of wang liping and close student of john chang; he has reached the level four of the lei shan dao... intelligent people can decide for themselves whether he is an exceptional person or not and if what he offers has value... just read through the website, it's got sound information and is presented in a mature and responsible way, and it's free... my experience is basically very positive at the forum and i felt the money for membership to the forum was well worth it... i really don't think it's worth being angry about. either your drawn to it or not, simple. PS it was clear that the website was just for members to view... man that is really disrespectful to post it all over some other forum... shows a lot about your character to pull something like that...

...kind of an interesting story with the dali lama... after he was ill with hepatitis, his doctors and nutritionist advised him to eat some meat. i guess he followed the 'eat right 4 your blood type diet' which says that people with 'o' and 'b' blood types need to eat meat and fish for optimal health. this makes sense since people have been eating fish and meat for millions of years.

well, the dali lama eats meet every second day and says it's okay to kill animals for food and medicine. he says people should eat less meat and respect and care for animals, but that there is no need to take the buddha's rule on non-killng to extremes... it seems clear that there are many different opinions among buddhists- and the buddha did stop short at condemning meat eating. i think it comes down to intention and balance... to say that people are going to hell for eating meat or using animals for medical purposes is fanaticism. it is about personal choice, leave judgement to the buddhas, enlightened masters or god, not people with a religious agenda... my two cents

i found this article on david shens forum. according to this student, jiangs master who is 117 yrs old can move objects and more... the article is sincere and well written- imho i'm really close to going to china with david- they are saying there are over 100 masters who can do this stuff- all students of jiang and his brother. numbers like that seem pretty hard to ignor- it will be interesting to see if they do the research and what happens after- too bad their forum will close http://www.foundation73.proboards55.com/in...ge=1#1193684029

hey, i'm interested in shen's stuff as well- who dropped out of the training and what reasons did they give? what other factors do you speak of? thx

if memory serves john chang only burns those in the demo by touch. in fact i have the documentary right here - if you watch the jiang vid, you can see that he burns several students without touch. not sure what video you're watchin? what i read on the forum is that the rabbit that was killed had its shen freed and it was eaten afterwords. i would guess the same fate for the little turtle buddy

did you happen to see the part where he burns the entire groups hands to show each of them that it's real - kind of hard to fake - watch the second video. the guys over at the forum of david shen said that it was all did impromptu with 20 people watching... i'm a big skeptic but the people that were there were talking about this man making their bodies sweet for days by projecting his chi into them.

Bowel movement?

i would get a second opinion on your second opinion - from a real doctor. if youre really afraid to go the standard route - you will might be able to find a doctor that will take your point of view - you just have to look hard enough. there may be some tcm people here - but i think the people here are more geared to spiritual stuff - not medicine. J

men may have 4 points on the ladies on paper - but that goes by by real quick when a hot girl is in the room. then the little brain takes over and we are toast.

I didn't hear it and believe it and how would you know what I have and have not done? I studied the buddhas teaching and applied it and, further, experienced it. If you want to talk about karma, then know the meaning of the word. If you want to talk about causless action- come up with a different word. Dog doesn't mean cow, etc...