Unconditioned

Because Mystery and Death are both very interesting topics... aka, they increase your ratings Or in a less cynical sense, they make people think about what might happen, not always a bad thing...

Good call, admitantly it has been a while since I've watched the documentary. I'll try to figure out "now" instead of "later" =) All interesting none the less...

Yeah there have been a number of specials on the History channel that correlate the I-Ching and Mayan predictions to 2012. The problem i have though is that when did the clock start ticking? Should we assume 2012 A.D.? Or did 2012 already pass (e.g., the Chinese calendar starts much earlier than our modern one). Either way, we're all going to die some day. No use in speculating when, it's just a distraction. Edit: I should've clicked the video first, this is the exact show that I had seen.

I do take political action, I exercised my right to vote for the person that I thought would do less harm. Democracy isn't perfect, but there are worse alternatives. I just try to see it for what it is: my conditioning has led me to choose this way or that... to maybe alter the conditions that I live in. At the end of the day, it's all just a result of conditioning... which is why shampoo is bettah! .. yeah they don't get much better. Seriously though, we can only do what we've learned to do. So I try not to get too caught up in the whole thing.

I'm staying out of this thread. Oh wait... For what it's worth, opinion and commentary really don't matter. We just have to observe what happens when it happens. Otherwise we're slaves to fear or expectation.

Hmm haven't read it before, who's the author?

Interesting. What's the point/goal/aim?

The benefits of enlightenment are essentially a life with no weights, complete freedom, complete happiness/fulfillment which would result in a peaceful world/life. We could use enlightened masters to help stop violence, to promote further research in 'inner sciences', gradually end the suffering we see in the world today - from the subtle and individual struggles to global issues such as war, famine, etc. An enlightened person still lives after they've come to realize Truth. They just live life in a much more complete/full/intense way. Just my 2c. Edit: we can describe the qualities of enlightenment but what it IS cannot be described. Words are just a knife that divide one into many.

Wow thank you all for the great advice - at least I have a place to start now instead of 'guessing'. My assumption is that with a healthy posture, my meditation will become 'richer' (for lack of a better word) as energy can more easily flow across a 'straight' road vs. a very winding one. Thanks again, I really love this forum, so helpful!

Wow, this is a GREAT analogy. Very well written/said - thank you!

Can you explain what/who those are a little bit?

Great questions! There are different views on 'why' to seek enlightenment. Generally, Buddhism is about the ending of suffering. With Enlightenment comes the wisdom to realize/remove the source of suffering. With Taoism I believe it is more a quest for truth, for the common answers we all have: why are we here? what is the purpose? what is life? what is the meaning of it all? That is my interpretation anyway, I'm sure others will post if they think differently. Do Taoists believe in rebirth? Every moment things change. I am not the same person i was from when i woke up today. The food in my pantry is not the same as when i bought it yesterday. The cells in my body are constantly dying and new ones are born. So in a very literal sense, rebirth is a primary function of life. The changing seasons are a great example. What happens when the body is no longer alive? I can't say... so I leave that be until it happens. I have ideas but they are just that - creations of my mind. I don't don't think Taoism is about believing in anything. It is about investigation and experiencing more than anything it is a science. Sure, the masters tell us that we are reborn into new bodies, etc. but until we are enlightened it is only a belief based on our own experiences and how we view the master (whether we believe them or not). To be honest, I don't bother about if we're born in a new body or not. I am trying to get rid of my own ignorance and understand exact what "I" am.

So the boogie man is out to get me again?? I knew I should've checked under my bed!

Just my take: It is not a religion but it has traditions (no one is asking you to believe anything). It is not a philosophy in that it does not try to describe/conceptualize life but it aims for you to experience it. There are as many ideas about Enlightenment as there are people! From a Taoist perspective, what is striven for is to become part of the Tao, the ever-present existence, and to realize what exactly 'we' are. Edit: I meditate to prepare myself to receive enlightenment. We can create the conditions, but we cannot make the seed blossom of our own will.

Do you obsess over the thoughts of lust or do you feel it's effects?

I feel the same way. For the first time since I've been able to vote (9 years) I really feel proud of our country. I don't think Obama is going to wave a magic wand and fix everything but I do believe that we can get back some of our lost credibility. I also hope that the notion of pre-emptive war has left with the Bush administration. Yes we need to defend ourselves but the first course of action is to prevent the conflict from it's root - not at the gross level by attacking and invading other countries. What I'm most excited about is that I feel hopeful and have heard the first real positive speech from a president-elect in quite some time. The whole idea behind "Yes we can" is very powerful on many levels. I have a renewed sense of hope that as a nation we can solve these problems and revive the American dream of the land of opportunity.

I think the other part of it is the action, the method. So how do we get into the state without the sense of "I"? By constantly inquiring on what it is. I feel this has lead me to some key realizations but I'm not yet sure how using the "I" to remove the "I" would completely work... hmm.

Mmm, Guiness. If you give me a few of those I'll bring my axe

What is the most direct method to realizing the Self while living in a very busy western world?

I believe that divine will allows us to have free will but it's not as 'free' as it appears to be. What I mean is this: divine will, Tao, God, the dancing form of Shiva, etc. etc. provide the possibility for free will. The divine will is the electricity that powers the universe. It doesn't judge, it's not a puppet master, it's simply the power behind action, be it mental, physical, or otherwise. Free will is a result of consciousness. By being conscious we believe that we make our own choices. "Will I pick the blue shirt or the red shirt?" But, as someone pointed out earlier in the thread, what are our choices based on? Prior experiences. So our 'free will' is not as free as we think... it is based on conditioning (mental/memory and/or physiological/genetic). So as we become more aware of the divine and lessen the power that conditioning holds over us we are able to be spontaneous. By being spontaneous we are able to be more rational in our decisions rather than basing them off of strictly prior experiences.... we develop more intuitional intelligence. Hope that makes sense... just one seeker's view on the topic All the best, Nate

This reminds me of a story. I will shorten it a bit so that it's manageable to read. This is from Sri Paramahamsa Nithyananda. A man who was seeking siddhis had been asking an enlightened master over and over to give him some special powers. After a while the master finally responded to him and said "Here, take this vial and drink it when you are at home and it will grant you special powers." The man was elated and turned to leave. Just then the master said one more thing "Oh, also, you must not think of monkey when you drink this. If you do have the thought of a monkey you will need to bathe before drinking the potion." The man got home and just as he was about to drink the potion he thought "I must not think about monkey". Just then he realized that he had thought about the monkey so he went and took a bath. He got out of the bath, picked up the vial and immediately he thought "I must not think about the monkey" and ran into the bath again. After a few hours went by the only think he could think about was the monkey! He returned to the master and said "I do not want special powers! Just get the monkey out of my mind!" So, the point of this is: if you are trying to overcome lust you cannot do it by thinking "I must stop thinking about lust" just by doing that you are giving it more power over you. The way to overcome the thoughts is instead of thinking in the negative (no lust) think in the positive - "They are beautiful" "She is the same being at the core as I am" "He seems happy, good for him." By changing our habits and removing the samskara/imprint/engram of 'lust' from our minds it will lose it's grip over us. Just my 2 cents. All the best, -Nate Edit: changed the font so it was easier to read. Edit 2: This is in addition to my above post - the combination of removing the thought of 'lust' as a concept/samskara/etc. used together with feeling the natural energy that emerges is how I have 'dealt' with this personally. I feel much more free than I did a few years ago when lustful thoughts seemed to consume a good deal of my time.

Hmm. For me it's not about transcending lust it's about transforming it. What I mean is, when you feel a strong desire for something - be it sexual or not - we are generating energy. For example, when a very attractive person enters a room we may feel a surge of energy in our naval center. When that happens, I focus on the energy not on thoughts about the person. I have no idea if this is good, bad, or otherwise but I've come to appreciate the 'gift' that I get when I feel that surge and it transforms my thoughts from desire to gratitude. I could just be fooling myself but for me it at least prevents or stops the chain of thoughts that would normally arise in that situation.

Well the interesting part about the results so far is that everyone who's answered does meditate even if not every day

Lin, Thank you very much. -Nate

I worry that I will not find enough motivation to dig out of all the holes I've made, all the foolish mistakes that i'm now paying for (poor health from being lazy, debt from being irresponsible, etc.)... that I'll stay in this same state of constantly having burdens from past bad decisions. That probably sounds more 'down' than I mean it to be, I'm generally happy with how my life is going and how cultivation is making it more amazing. But even still, I'm having a hard time visualizing a life where I'm not always indebted to someone or some bad decision.