Unconditioned

I think some people may not be psychologically stable or meditation practice could bring up emotions and events that are very difficult to deal with (e.g., child abuse, violent past, etc.). It depends on each person's individual situation.

I have learned So much from him as well. He is a 3rd generation disciple of Sri Ramana Maharishi and speaks in very easy to understand, practical terms. Anyway.. back on topic

This is one I've had a hard time with. As I started to type out how I didn't understand what it means I think I've figured it out.. maybe. The word that I didn't really know was inert which means "unable to move or resist motion". So, our body does not move by itself, it does not say 'I' (it is not the Self). I think he is saying that because Reality-Consciousness does not emerge it is the root, source, Tao, void, etc. from which everything ELSE emerges. So between the source of emergence and our body the 'I' thought/assumption is created which is the source of suffering, bondage, etc. Anyone else?

I have not formally practiced Kunlun but do have a copy of the book. I have practiced the exercise a handful of times and have felt the same qi as in other meditation practices but not as an intense degree (I'm assuming this is because I have not practiced Kunlun formally). That said, what does 'bliss' feel like? The best way is to find out for yourself. There are MANY techniques available for free - try youTube and Google. Personally, I've practiced yoga meditations seriously for a relatively short time (~8 months) but in the last recent weeks I have experienced more intense feelings you could call 'bliss'. During meditation, there are points were I feel a surge in my being. I say being because it is beyond the boundary of body. This surge has felt very powerful at times almost like being struck by lightning or an explosion. It usually lasts only a few seconds at that magnitude for me but it is my belief that this is 'bliss'. From an emotional standpoint, the best way I know how to describe the feeling is that of the utmost peace. The strongest feeling of peace and beauty I have ever experienced. It's a very intense "everything is wonderful, life is beautiful, I am so fortunate, etc." all in one feeling. That is just my personal account. I could be completely off track so my best advice is to work on it yourself and experience for yourself. One word of advice, which ever practice you choose, stick with it. These methods tae time and even if you don't feel like something is happening or changing in you, over time I predict you will see results. If you are interested in the specific methods I use feel free to ask and I'll share.

Lin, Thank you for the article. At first I was nodding all the way. Even just yesterday I got into an argument with my fiance over some things that she thought we 'needed' for our new apartment. I argue for simplicity almost to a fault.. or maybe to a fault... if things are falling apart but can still be used, then I keep using them. I am called 'cheap' by a lot of people but I just don't have the money most of the time to have the 'nice things'. So, I agree that as a society we have become very distracted, very comfortable and lulled by entertainment. That aside though, I don't necessarily think that nice things are bad. I look at a skyscraper and think of all the hard work that it took to build it. From the first thought to the last rivet. I sit at my computer and marvel at the great minds that conceived the idea and the hard work it took to create it. Everywhere I look I see the beauty from which all of man's creations have come from and I am in complete awe. I see the divine at work in all our ideas. So that leaves me in a bind. These beautiful ideas scream out of our unique human minds and intuition yet they tend to bind us in greed/lust and leave us blind. So my conclusion is to work on myself, see the beauty in all things, and hope that I can some day center my being in the Tao itself. Once again, thank you for these insights. -Nate

This will be my last post on abilities as I've given my personal view and I'll leave it alone. Having the ability to do something is not the same as knowing something. Doing, knowing, and understanding are all very different things (as you pointed out). I would never recommend anyone sitting in isolation meditating. One may cultivate understanding but they'd also be missing out on the gift that has been given to us - a human existence. So to me, it is most important to develop wisdom that will then drive your actions. To have the power to do something as your ultimate goal (I'm assuming that may be your view?) is limiting yourself to some degree. To KNOW the source of Chi, the source of your Will, the source of Life, Love, Success, Nature, etc. and to seat your consciousness/awareness in that place with complete confidence of what it is and what you are, in my opinion, is the purpose of our existence as humans. We are in the unique situation to be aware of what the Tao really is. I respect your effort towards abilities but disagree out of compassion, please try not to take this the wrong way. I think searching for abilities is truly a wasted effort unless it can lead to the ultimate understanding. Understanding is not a thought, it is not knowledge, it is not an object at all. It is beyond the ability to think. It is completely inexpressible. Knowledge is the map, understanding is the territory itself. Again, I do not wish to argue opinions. I like red you like blue so be it I just hope that I can help show that there is something more than abilities, far greater, and it's expression is more powerful than any ability because it is the source of all abilities, of all things. Ok I've said my piece. With love and respect, -Nate

Why ask someone else when you can ask the question to yourself? The point isn't about the ability or not. I believe there are many people who have mastered arts and have great abilities. It's about the real question: why? what is the purpose? You don't need to be a master of something to understand what the potential purpose is for it. I don't need to be a rocket scientist to understand the reason for having a space program. Please don't add context to my words - I'm not saying abilities are wrong or bad or anything like that. I am really trying to understand the reason for chasing them as I haven't found and ultimate reason for going after them. Our bodies will die, and so will it's abilities. Our source is permanent, which is why I choose to pursue the nature of the Tao rather than it's manifestations.

What's the point of having these abilities? What is the real benefit? There are loftier goals in my opinion and better things to do with the short time we are manifest here as one of the most unique creatures in creation. The philosophy is deeper than it appears and even more simple than it appears. It's just a matter of practice. It really is as simple as dropping the ego. To be practical, the easiest technique I've found to work (personally anyway) is non-judging. Just stop judging. When you see a person try to stop yourself from thinking "good/bad, fat/skinny, beautiful/ugly" etc. Just see them as they are, as a person. Or see the garbage as just garbage - not good or bad, if it smells foul let it be foul but don't add the judgement. Try it for a week, you'll notice some interesting changes. Abilities are a potential side-effect of cultivating wisdom, but there is a bigger goal. With love and respect, -Nate

Particle Physics at MIT Music at Berkley Advaita Vedanta at Arunachala

Me 3 I also do a type of of Anja chakra meditation. Starting the meditation I sit cross-legged (I am VERY inflexible so that's the best I can do with out straining!) and close my eyes. I keep my hands in my lap left hand on top of my right hand with my thumbs touching at the top forming a circle. It's hard to explain but I look slightly up which typically causes a lot of energy throughout my body (more than if i'm just looking straight ahead). I focus on the darkness and my awareness of darkness noticing how expansive it is, never ending, everywhere. Once I feel very still / relaxed and the thoughts quiet down I then open my eyes and look out in the same way that I had with them closed and leave them open without blinking. I As the energy builds I focus on the Anja chakra (3rd eye) an am able to 'expand my boundary' so to speak. I lose the feeling of my body completely and I just feel bliss/energy/peace... there's no good way to describe it...every now and then I will feel a strong surge of energy .. so strong that I feel I might fall over (I haven't yet!). Of all the meditation types I've tried this has had the most results for me personally. I do this for 30-45 minutes each night before bed.

I agree with the approach but the difficult part is where do you draw the line between who is 'in' and 'out'?

Sacrifice is not the same as exchanging currency - he did not pay someone nor did he charge anyone. He gave up his plentiful lifestyle... he didn't keep it and try to get more of it. To say that all others will / have failed is pride and ignorance. Do you know every person on this earth? Sri Ramana Maharishi and a second generation disciple, Paramahamsa Nithyananda have both achieved 'a high level' and offer their teachings for free in .pdf documents or on youTube. They also present the OPTION of buying materials or going to seminars but all of the core teachings are available for free. I find it quite ironic that you're purporting 'your truth' as offending my greed. Who's charging for spirituality again? Asking another seeker to go away is far from trying to help spread truth. I have not even asked you to go away - perhaps some of the responses will give you new insights. Good luck in your business. I'll go on my way freely and continue along my path - like everyone else - without needing to spend a penny. Wisdom is within, available to all, just as it was freely available to Sakyamuni. About wealth... it is not good nor bad and one can live in bliss and still have a 9-5. In fact, I believe it's in the Platform Sutra that eludes to not locking oneself in a cave but living life and obtaining wisdom in tandem. Sincerely, all the best with your work.

I've heard the term 'cultivation' used many times on the board and am not familiar with that term in relation to Taoism or Buddhism. I'm assuming it's what results from practice? Can anyone enlighten me?

Don't take this the wrong way please! How do you find that kind of time?? I don't think my job would allow me to leave my desk that often nor is there a place to practice at work.

Knowledge is free. Spirituality is free. The Tao does not judge one as virtuous or non-virtuous. How did Buddha become enlightened? By paying people? No! I realize that organizations and people need funding to survive but it should be out of respect - not with the expectation that if I pay someone I will receive enlightenment or some 'secret' method. I find it very condescending to suggest that one is not sincere in their practice if they do not pay large sums of money. The Tao is available to all - regardless of monetary wealth. There is a guru within each of us that doesn't charge a dime. There are hundreds of free resources online that don't charge either but have the sincere goal of helping others towards Truth. At a minimum, this post creates discord and pulls people away from the path. I will be using the 'block/ignore' feature on this forum more often when I see pan handlers trying to swindle people. This is the very reason I left the Christian church when I was younger. Please stop or you may drive others away as well.

To some degree - but to say "Africans have darker skins than Europeans" is not a true statement. South Africa is predominantly white. They have their place but are potentially dangerous and can lead to an assumption that a generalization is truth. To assume that something that is obvious to you is obvious to another is big assumption! The bigger picture is that arguing over generalizations is fruitless and is of no value outside of strengthening the ego. So I'll end my post there before that lil bugger creeps up even more! Edit: In response to the Western assumption - not everyone is influenced in the same way by culture. Some run towards it to be with the group others run away from it to stand out. Still others march to their own beat for even other reasons. Truth doesn't have a directional bias. It just IS. Nor does it favor / disfavor one culture over another. The illusion of being separate creates division. The reality of Truth creates unity. One thing is for certain: we are alive. There are no assumptions or false interpretations to be made about that. If we start at that point, we can cut through the conditioning, through the ego, through the comparisons. All the best -Nate

Well said All generalizations are false, including this one!

Agreed! The goal of this type of meditation is not to dull or lull the mind. That is being idle. The goal is to observe the thoughts that pass. In doing so, over time the thoughts may become less frequent and the grip of the mind on one's awareness lessens until one can realize/experience the state of 'no-mind' or 'inner silence'. In that state, it is easy to see what one is and what one is not. Ultimately, it leads to insights, sharpening of awareness, rather than a dull mind. Ok, now that I've derailed the conversation... I agree that China is geographically closer to Taoism Edit: replaced geologically with geographically.. yikes!

You don't need to ever give her the idea of any kind of love, all you need to do is show her and she'll experience it first hand. The deepest form of love is so much more than any romantic idea of what a relationship is supposed to be. The romantic idea of love is a response to true inner Love. I see my fiance as she really as. A physical representation of all the beauty in existence. Like a flower I watch her blossom, like a volcano I see her erupt from time to time, I see her soften me like a river smooths a rock...and all of it is from the same power that has manifested the universe. How can anything be more or less beautiful? Beauty and Love that has a scale is not true Beauty and Love. When I see her in this way, and even more deeply than words can show, I can only respond with love. When we know the Truth, what others will see is Love in it's purest form. We don't need to talk about it ever, just show it, express it, and others will feel it and know it. How to see her that way? Drop the idea of Love. Drop the expectations of "I need to ______ so she knows I love her". Respect her as a goddess, as sacred, as life itself, as encompassing all the beauty in existence, and the actions will follow on their own accord. At least this is how my relationship has unfolded as I've understood more about my own nature. All the best, -Nate

Metzu, First I respect your sincerity. Far too often we surpress things which only lead to more knots that will need to be unraveled. I can absolutely relate to your points. I was in a Christian 'church' where the main goal was to 'save others' (aka recruit them so the church could bring in more $$$). I spent my entire teenage years there being controlled and missing out on some of the greatest times of my youth. So that said, I feel where you're coming from and I understand the frustration. People are being sold a pretty packaged with the label "Salvation!" but it's just an empty box. I would call this 'religion' or 'dogma' as it relates to my experiences. BUT these are religious traditions. Traditions are like the telephone game - they start out one way and end up completely different. The leaders of the major religious traditions may have known Truth in it's pure form and wanted to help others find the same. But, to describe Truth using words is not possible. We can try, but it is only an idea about Truth, not Truth itself. So after thousands of years, changes in language, incorrect interpretations (usually symbolism taken literally), greed, lust for power, etc. these teachings have been used to serve many purposes - most not their intended purpose. At the end of the day, religion CAN provide a path to wisdom/Truth but there are much more direct methods - such as the Guru within each of us, the nature of our nature, that if we pay attention to will liberate us, enlighten us, and guide us to Truth. With much respect, -Nate

So this weekend I found myself not getting much done and I started to wonder why I was feeling so lazy. Some days it's out to conquer the world and others I don't even want to get out of bed. I also noticed another post where a lot of other people seemed to have the same tendency. So I thought maybe we could discuss ways from a Taoist viewpoint to deal with laziness. So here are a few of my personal observations which I'm interested in hearing other people's opinions on. Feeling Lazy When I'm feeling lazy, I tend to ignore responsibilities (e.g., laundry, bills, cleaning), think that the task is going to take a lot of time or be difficult. I spend a lot of time thinking about all the reasons I don't want to do ______ and all the reasons why I want to do something else. Then the famous "I'll get to it tomorrow, no big deal" thought creeps in and the procrastination has begun. Sometimes I also set much too high of a goal for the day and end up doing nothing. Then it all becomes a habit. Getting it Done When I'm forced to HAVE to get something done I reluctantly begin working. I mentally complain about what I'm doing for a bit. But, after a while of getting stuff done there is a mental shift - I start to feel good about the fact that I'm not being lazy. Then when I'm done with whatever, I feel good. I feel like I've accomplished something. Taoist View The biggest personal observation is that it's all in my head, picturing how hard the work might be. The question is: how to make the mental shift towards the "getting it done", accomplished feeling BEFORE the work gets done rather than being tired before doing any work! Maybe to go deeper than that, a better approach might be to drop both the "this is going suck" or "this is going to be awesome" attitude. Or maybe the best idea is to stop talking about not being lazy and just doing something What do you feel like when you're lazy? How do you overcome it? What can help us overcome laziness from a Taoist perspective (especially when it's grip is strong)? Edit: fixed grammar and shortened the post a bit.

The hardest thing to get away from is my self!

Who makes the connection between free-will or fate? Who decides "I will talk to her", "wow, this must mean something", or "just dumb luck"? If you look deeply, you will find that neither is wrong nor are they right. It depends on your vantage point - inside or outside. From a normal outside view, we use our minds to interpret events. From an inside view, all of our thoughts are a product of conditioning - either external/cultural or physical dispositioning (genetics). Remove the conditioning and you have no thoughts that are 'yours' except "I AM". Why are they both not 'wrong'? Fate? Yes - the conditioning is working as it does and the REAL YOU has no say. Coincidence? Yes - things are working as they do the meaning is added on by our minds. And why are they not 'right'? They're just concepts.

It is as it is, which you already know, you're already there. Drop the label and just be what you are. That's all we can do, that's all we ever do. The only difference is some are aware of it some are not. Feet on the ground, head in the clouds. Enjoy your being, your existence, your opportunity to experience the life from this manifestation.

I have to be careful with this one - I don't mean to offend anyone (Taoist or otherwise)! But I believe that some of the Taoist physical practices can be a form of dogma. That doesn't mean dogma is bad, it's a tool/method like any other. But if you explore the boards you'll find a lot of discussion on esoteric abilities and the like which, like anything, we can easily become enveloped in and miss out on where they're trying to lead us. Adam, there are some denominations of Buddhism which are very religious and use worship / devotion as the method to enlightenment (ultimately surrender is the key to those paths and can/do lead to the goal). I did not mean to offend but get the impression that I may have. That said, the first Buddha did say to not take anyone's word for anything. Investigate. This is what drew me into Buddhism and ultimately into Taoism. What pushed me away from Buddhism was I felt constrained by the specific 'steps' (8 fold path). Everyone has their preferences towards their path. Which one we choose is much less important than pursuing the truth. If I use a wooden mallet or metal hammer to drive a nail they both accomplish the same goal.