Unconditioned

I'm not sure I fully understand the question but I'll have a go at it. Darkness is the absence of everything; there is no light, there is no THING in darkness, it is completely empty. It is the base on which everything else is constructed. It is the source of everything else - below everything internal and external - is darkness, the purest unconditioned source. The short version: darkness itself is the Tao, the unmanifest. Please be careful not to color the word 'darkness' with bad, wrong, evil, etc. Those are conditioned influences, see it for what it is without judgment. The word is only a label that I choose to use as a practice and analogy to bring my being 'in harmony' with the Tao. ... one of these days I'll figure out how to convey my thoughts in understandable english, for now this will have to do!

Truly a beautiful statement. I wish I could've been born a few decades earlier to have made a trek to see him but fortunately I can look where he points and realize what he saw.

Some serious truth to that... as well as a practice in and of itself. Things that rise and fall are not permanent. But the process itself, change, movement, etc. is. Likewise, our bodies, senses, etc. are not permanent. But the process by which all these are even a possible to occur is. o put it another way: by observing and not judging ANYTHING with our thoughts... That pure observation, will reveal many truths... much like if siddhis arise, observe them but don't let the mind get caught on them... or anything else... just let it be... seek the mind's source and it evaporates... what is left is Truth. If you remove all the things that are not Truth, that are just the mind's illusion, and strip everything bare to it's core... the only thing that can be left when you remove untruth is Truth. Sorry if this sounds cryptic, I don't mean it to be but it's the only way I know how to describe what I'm trying to put across. Edit: fixed some grammar mistakes so it actually made sense

We recognize it as intuition - that "gut feeling" - but where does that come from? Have a look! Then again I know you're position on becoming 'awake' or not and can respect that so... have a beer or two, then you can have a gut, to check against. ... don't ask, I haven't eaten yet today and I'm a bit off... well more than usual

Well put! It's not that you completely disappear into thin air and can't think anymore... it's more of being aware of what your ego really is and let it take it's direction from a deeper source. Well... that's what my ego tells me anyway... that bastard's lied to me before so... yeah

I didn't mean litterally create a "DBZ, Magic" forum. I mean create two forums - one for general whatever discussions and another specifically for the serious conversations. And you're almost right - I'm far from stupid but - 'I' know nothing To quote an old school cartoon, "I am what I am" Some real truth to that I could care less about Magick or whatever other label we like to give abilities. I care about one thing - being aware, awake, part of what IS, just BEing. Sounds simple, and it is, once we're no longer conditioned. All the best.

Where do the thoughts from the pen come from?

Perhaps we could create a subforum for the 'magic, DBZ' folks and one for "Serious Practitioners". I share your sentiment - I'd like to have some good discussions and a few laughs here and there to keep things light but the bickering over this and that does detract from the real discussions.

It can not have a label Nor can it be a concept But it is the source of conceptualization It can not have shape Nor can it be perceived with the senses But it is the source of consciousness It is not light nor is it dark It does not sit in the heavens or on the earth It does not start nor does it end But it is the blank on which all is manifested It is the base on which all things stand It is no object. It simply is.

It looks the same as it always has, just with a different lens applied Culture influences the medium that we use to communicate methods towards wisdom. Just look at the technology we're using at this very moment. We're able to communicate to people around the world and spread information (good or bad). I think the taoist practice in our era has benefited greatly because of this age. People have been bound by ignorance (that's not a dig, myself included) since we've been able to think. So our challenge is the same with a different backdrop. Or approach should use all available means to help us cultivate understanding which inturn will alter our actions. So, what does it look like? It looks like a modernization of tried-and-true techniques (meditation in all forms) using the tools, communication, and culture available to us. We shouldn't throw away the ancient techniques but at the same time we should adapt them so they are easier to understand in the context of today.

Hmm got double posted for some reason - oops.

Are you trying to steal my frosted lucky charms???? I really appreciate this post. I hope it does inspire some to look past the 'abilities' and find their source. I feel true sympathy for those who spend years if not their lifetimes cultivating these arts but miss the point altogether. I think the only thing that can be done to help others (not just those looking to obtain abilities) is to be an example. Your shear presence of living with/in the Tao will naturally shine to others and at a minimum people will notice you're different, best case they will want to know why. I hope I am not coming across as being antagonistic or a know-it-all, that's very far from my intention!

I tend to mix the two into one. Meaning, 'sealing the senses' isn't avoiding them or pushing them away. It's being aware of them and letting them be. So by sharpening awareness we 'seal the senses' in that they are there, we are aware of them, but we go 'under' them to their source. In doing that, you can enter into the void in a very deep state which can lead to insights, healing, bliss, etc. So by sharpening awareness we in turn seal the senses when we enter into a deep meditative state. Maybe I'm only speaking of awareness meditation or talking about something completely different - just my interpretation! By the way thanks for the clarification about the question!

What is the benefit/objective of this training? I mean why work so hard towards being able to be lighter? Where does it get you? I'm not being a jerk here Trying to understand!

Just out of curiosity what are you basing this on? Which Yogi's vs. which Zen masters? There are many Indian mystic traditions as well as Zen traditions. I've seen many Yogi's that live life quite much and aren't just sitting in caves for 20+ years. In fact, there are many that strongly advise against it. As in my previous post, who cares? If a tradition brings you to the goal what difference does the label make or the culture surrounding it? Just more skandhas, more layers to peel back. You have to do the same with any tradition. And there should be a balance between inner work and outer work - i.e. 'keep your feet on the ground and your head in the clouds'. Just my 2c =)

You are definitely on to something! But first, thank you for sharing your personal story. I fascinates me the many many different ways people come to realize certain things about life. Everything influences us. The cultures you've seen, your environment growing up, the person standing in line next to you, these words that you're reading right now, etc. All those things condition the way we act, think, and feel. Your post is a good reminder, thank you

Osho would be so proud! Really though, there's so much conversation about is it this or that. The easiest way to figure that out is to check it out for yourself if you're that interested/skeptical. Either way, Max gets a lot of air time and causes us to think about if things are real or not... that alone is valuable.

So you seem to live up to your forum name.... you know a lot about yourself Yeah, that's a poor attempt at humor, what of it?

I also use a similar approach but more of a command than thought. I typically use "Just BE" when my mind begins to wander at the start of meditation. I will often recite this until I am just being. The beauty of this and the technique that you use is that when you do/are what the thought says, the thought goes away. Sort of a self-destructing mechanism. Here are a few other's that I've used with some good results: "Drop" (as in drop the thought) "Let go" "I am THIS" "Deeper" "Still" Those may not work for anyone else at all so maybe a good practice is to find your own mantra. One of the ways I understand mantras to work are that it recreates the conditions that were present when an enlightened being became enlightened. Another way that I understand mantras work is similar to Vipasanna, that it gives your mind one object to focus on until you and that object are no longer two separate things OR until the object disappears and only the true Self remains. Like anything - don't take my word for it =) Try a few things, keep doing your homework like you're doing, and find what resonates with you.

Background I had often struggled with compassion vs. intellect - which one is 'better', pros and cons, etc. - but I never really understood their relation or why compassion was so heavily taught in some Buddhist contexts. Recently I think I've come to some conclusions which may or may not be helpful but I thought I'd share them anyway. The following is a summary, that hopefully will lead to some interesting discussion. Skepticism About Compassion as a Technique I've found that in Buddhism, compassion as a method to Enlightenment or at a minmum a code of ethics is very prominent(aside from some schools such as Zen which focus on more 'mind' methods over 'heart' methods). I couldn't understand how forcing people to be compassionate would do anything but create a false layer or a false 'caring' for other people or their actions whom in reality we really may not care for. Doesn't that just create more 'stuff' to have to be later removed to find Truth? What good does wishing someone well with our mouths/minds when in our hearts we can't stand them or their actions at all? The Misconception Revealed Here's where things started to click: compassion is not forcing yourself to like/love someone and treat them well "because you have to". That was the rub for me - why should I have to like everyone? It just didn't make sense... it felt too forced to be truth... so I discarded it as dogma. But, it is not. There is something deeper, some truth, to practicing compassion and it has to do with the definition. What I've discovered compassion to be is an extreme empathy. This is probably obvious to a lot of people but wasn't to me! At our core being, at the purest source, the life force itself, the Tao that manifests our being, etc. we are identical. Everything that sits on top of that is conditional. From the time we begin to form concepts and thoughts we begin our conditioning. Every thought, action, movement, desire, etc. of our personality is based on conditioning (either external influences or internal genetic disposition). So what? Well, therefore compassion is seeing others at their core being and being aware that their actions are just a result of their conditions. Application of Compassion So when that person in a hurry cuts us off, or someone insults us, or someone judges us wrongly, etc. We can remember that at the core, we are the same. We share the same life force. We share the same process of conditioning. While this doesn't mean let people walk all over us, it does put situations in a different perspective when dealing with them. We are then able to treat everyone and everything with true compassion. I hope this was helpful to some. With love and respect.

For me, it wouldn't change a thing. Science is an amazing tool, and our creative/conscious minds used in conjunction have brought about some remarkable achievements, inventions, revelations, etc. My undergrad study is in science so I have an amazing respect for it. But, science is catching up very slowly to spirituality. These truths of other dimensions have been known by mystics and sages for thousands of years. Why has it taken so long? Seeing is believing. Unfortunately most of our human existence has looked outside instead of inside. Proving externally what one can known first hand internally may spur some people towards Truth and may improve our quality of life over time. But for me personally the only validation I need is first hand experience (not blind belief, they're different).

And I'm still at work

Thank you! There is a much loftier goal than super natural abilities. What I don't understand about people who pursue them purposely is - why? What's the point to that? To boost the ego? To manipulate? Perhaps for some good causes as well - healing, protection, etc. but is that all there is? Far from it. Tao is a term or a symbol to try to describe the source of everything, the true underlying 'blank' or 'void' from which all things come into existence. Taoism is about realizing what you are and your relation to life, existence, etc. Physical forms of meditation and use of Qi can be used to act in harmony (for lack of a better word) with the Tao. But in my opinion the 'outside' world is the tool, the manifestation, the movement, forms. The inside world is the doer, the divine will, the power, the current, the purest source of everything, sentience itself. When acting in the outer world from the inner world in balance, that is living Taoism. In this harmony, the doing and the doer are one in the same singularity. This singularity is everything there is and those who exist in this perfect harmony have no individual self - they are just acting in accordance with the Tao itself. Those people are often called "enlightened" - it is a shift in consciousness that leads to untarnished, pure action in accordance with how everything IS and how everything will ever be. I wish i could explain better but words only point to the Truth, ideas can never be Truth themselves.

Simply put - comparing one path to another is in my opinion a petty case. What difference does it make if you take one road or another to the same place? 'Better' is a very subjective word anyhow! Labels, labels, labels. I understand the historical significance of a word's spelling but as far as leading to understanding/awareness the label is less important than the practice and goal. Not everyone's go is to obtain siddhi's (spelling?). Myself in particular could care less about them.. they're trivial in comparison to True understanding/wisdom and only solidify the ego making it more difficult to realization. That's not a dig on anyone, everyone has their own reasons for things - just my personal opinion. To say that your school is better/worse than another only promotes discord, ego, and arguments. Look at the world religions of today, they all have Truth within them but people get caught up in the symantecs - which has lead to many many wars the basis being different labels for the same thing, for the same intention and destination. No need to get caught up in the details =) The method that resonates with you is the best method.

Massage is helpful To work out all of the kinks A beer will do too!