Unconditioned

Who/what/how is watching those processes? Another way to approach "who am I?" is to follow it up with deeper investigation - Am I my body? Am I my senses? Am I my memories? Am I my future projections? Am I the 'watcher' of my thoughts? As others have said, you'll discover what you are not and a result of the inquiry will be truth, an experiential truth. For example, lets say I think I'm an amazing writer and everyone tells me how great I am as to not hurt my feelings or to avoid an argument, etc.. Then I decide to inquire "Am I really an amazing writer?" and dig into that question a bit, examine my work, etc. Then at some point in the inquiry I realize that I'm an awful writer, and say "I'm not an amazing writer!" the result is truth, realization, that what my thoughts were are different than what reality was. In the same way when we inquire about who we really are we'll continuously discover what we are not and in that there is truth until we've understood everything we are not. Then what is left is what we are. Don't take my word for it.. in fact that's the worst thing you could do. Examine for yourself and see what you find. All the best, Nate

If it comes across as rude then maybe we're judging a bit to harshly. After watching the video I think she's stopping them from going down the wrong path and taking the conversation away from the original question. I work in business and this happens in just about EVERY meeting. She's playing the moderator role in the conversation to keep it on task. All in all I found her to be very clear in what she was trying to say and the message seemed authentic. Out of curiosity why do you think it's 'NLP for potheads'?

Ok fair enough. I agree that there is more than one way to approach and treat health, without a doubt. I know that vaccinations have been effective in the past (statistics and personal experience). Please do not read into this the wrong way - I do not know of a record of FU that shows success rates that go beyond the placebo effect. Does such a thing exist? If not it would be a very interesting thing to take a look at - what is the most effective form of healing. Not for comparison sake or to prove one side over the other but so that people can choose the method that works best to protect their health. Are there types of FU for diseases that modern medicine has yet to find a cure or vaccine? I really don't know much about FU at all and I'm predispositioned as a skeptic. I just have a hard time accepting that saying a few specific words or writing specific symbols will cause healing to happen unless it really is a placebo effect. I'm sure some things are not easily explained and are beyond logic however I've not experienced the power of healing outside of modern medicine with the exception of meditation practices, or is that a type of FU?

Does he use any recreational drugs? Marijuana and other drugs can affect sex drive.

Hey Pietro, It's what we make of it... what topics do you want to talk about? Throw some out there! My preference is the general lets examine an aspect of life together. So I like your post for that very reason - maybe we could talk about discontentment, change, or what is being bored? Maybe that's the intent of your post relative to TTB? Ian, great idea!!

VERY well said, if only I could've found those words in a similar topic. Thanks Scotty, you keep things simple and without much 'coloring'. Good stuff

Why Lazarus Laughed, Wei Wu Wei And using seemingly educated words for the sake of the ego can be a sign of being a bit of a prick. Don't take it personally, just an observation. As gold said, relax a bit! No need to get all prickly here (pun intended)! I agree with your comment though, if you 'have' an answer then you've stopped seeing things as they are - you only see your conclusions. When we can stop and say "i don't know" now that is the path to real discovery isn't it?

I don't specifically know why but I have a problem with people advertizing "buy this talisman to protect yourself against a deadly virus". Really, does no one else see the potential problem with this? We're fortunate enough to have people that have used the power of our intellect to understand the virus and are working on a vaccine. Capitalizing on a deadly disease seems a bit low to me. Even if you do truly believe what you are selling MTS, it could cause someone some real danger if they don't take serious precautions. Modern medicine is also of the Tao isn't it? Please read the WHO and CDCs information on the virus. There's no harm in supplementing medical information with spirituality however just putting faith in an unproven item without taking other precautions is dangerous. So perhaps you could put a word or two in your advertizement about the other things that can be done to safeguard one self.

Wow, that's pretty cool... and it was staring me in the face right up top the whole time.... time for some awareness work lol.

I had a similarly odd experience while doing an open eyed meditation last night. My fiance's laptop was on the coffee table and it has a blue light that goes on every time the hard-drive works. After about 5 minutes of breathing meditation I noticed that the light came on with ever inhale and went out with every exhale... I thought it was coincidence but it was the exact same rhythm for another full minute or two. I even tried slowing my breath down and it was right on queue. Now the question is, was it me influencing the light or the light influencing me. I'm going to err on the side of logic and say the light was influencing me but it was pretty intense none the less.

Great point, assuming that one is talking about an entity to experience something. We are but we are not some 'thing' and at the same time we are something, just not what we label it... oh boy... paradoxical riddles indeed! But here is my question to David's point of view - if there is absolutely no experiencer then what is it that is able to be aware, conscious, alive, etc.? The unconditioned self is very much alive and is experiencing but it does not identify with the experiences, no?

1) The exact definition of enlightenment. Any time you try to define enlightenment you will always fall short, miss some aspect, etc. It cannot be described, only experienced. We can talk about the results of enlightenment, the aspects of it, etc. but we're limited by the words we use and the individual interpretations that the person we're communicating to has with those words. Edit: Trying to define enlightenment is like trying to explain to a blind person what a color is, they will only be able to use terms that are relative to them... like "loud, quiet, smooth, rough" etc. They point to what the color is but don't define it entirely. 2) Reasons for why enlightenment (as we define it) either is or isn't an experience. If it is not an experience then it must be false. If we only know enlightenment as a thing to be obtained then it's no different than any other thought - it will be colored by our prior conditioning, beliefs, etc. We'll have some idea or expectation about it which will be incorrect. 3) What else it could be besides an experience. If it's not an experience it's just an idea/thought about enlightenment, not enlightenment itself. 4) Reasons why people think it's impossible to fall from a state of enlightenment. Hmm I'm not sure on this one... if someone is in an enlightened state I'm not sure it's possible to go back to misidentifying your 'true self' with all of the things that aggregated together the non-enlightened person thinks they are.

I believe (haha) that mantras and prayers DO server a purpose but maybe not the same purpose as the individual doing those things intends. If you recite a word ANY WORD over and over in your mind, it just starts to sound like nonsense but what's really going on in there? The mind is no longer toiling with what happened yesterday and what could happen tomorrow. It's a form of escape at a minimum and is, in my opinion, a form of meditation. It's similar to watching your breath but instead you're repeating a word. Prayer on the other hand is very broad and means a lot of things to a lot of people. Where this can be useful is total surrender. By letting go of everything, you let go of your identity with your 'self', what can happen then? I'm not sure... just throwing out a possibility. What I do hear in the undertones though is an anti-religious religion. Check that out Not passing judgment, just making an observation... maybe I'm hearing what I want to hear? hmm.

That only applies if you're attached to the idea.

Sometimes you have to pass by the dog shit to get to a flower. There is some of what you put going on here, but it certainly isn't everyone. Pick the posts that work for you and ignore the others. Or take off... whatever works for you. Hurling insults though, that's only going to make you more upset. Smile with compassion/empathy when you scroll past the posts that you think are bs. Good luck, this is the best forum I've found to be able to talk freely but that means you have to apply the filters, not the forum or it's members.

To quote one of my favorites, "Awareness, Awareness, Awareness" Anthony DeMello. Throughout the day, all day, I 'try' (using that word loosely) to be aware. Of what? Everything, internal and external. I've found that I have moments that last anywhere from a couple of seconds to a few minutes of a completely quiet mind, no thoughts. It sounds simple in theory but it takes some real discipline to keep at it... when you can get in the no-thought state while going about your day to day business, that's a really interesting thing. I also practice a meditation at night sitting and looking without blinking and focus attention on the body (all of it). The 'images' start to get distorted (see some odd spots or things just look different after a while) but after about 10-15 minutes, I almost lose touch with the physical body... like if my hands are one on top of the other, I can't tell that I have two hands... it just feels like one body mass... eventually this spreads throughout my entire body and all that I'm 'feeling' is a sense of being.

Who said anything about Armageddon? I read it as great change, not the end of the world. There is a chance that it all becomes a self fulfilled prophecy, and if it is, then so it goes!

Just a few thoughts, I wish you the best and you're not alone, you're human, we all go through tough times. Our mental image of how bad things are is typically much worse than what is really going on when related to fear/suffering. When we judge our experiences we create illusions that cause us suffering. Nothing is permanent, the feeling of depression will pass. However, we empower the suffering by trying to do something about it and by it consuming our thoughts. Life is never ending, only it's forms come and go. All the best, -Nate

Very very true! I've been a musician for the last 15 years and when everyone is playing their part, without the nagging mind - "Am I doing this right? What's that next chord again? Am I too loud?"... once that is gone, something else takes over and I believe that if one member of the group can get into that state, it rubs off quickly on the others. Just my 2c.

There's more to this than the superficial points (although those are important too). Without going too deep here to stay on topic, there are probably just as many reasons for wanting to smoke/drink as there are for not wanting to. I'll give the superficial then dig just a little deeper. Why? Pressure to conform Societal/parental influence (either for or against) To rebel To try to stand out, get attention To escape Slow suicide, apathy For comfort Out of habit Why do the things listed above? Fear Conditioning Lack of Self understanding Lack of understanding/respect for life Ego What is the root of the problem? Incorrect interpretation/identification of 'self'

I don't entirely disagree with the article however I do believe, from personal experience, that taking a drug can open someone up to the possibility of a different view of reality. It can loosen the rigidity of what we believe to be 'real'. Now that said, I think someone can become trapped with drugs, addicted, ruin their physical body, ruin their minds, etc. I've seen some close friends lose their 'lives' (the way they live) to drugs - it consumes them and they live for the drug. Is this any different though from any other addiction or tool towards understanding? That's an open question not a leading one!

It's a matter of definitions but here are a few thoughts... Self (in the conventional sense): This is the collection of memories and thoughts composted of our internal and external conditioning. Not-Self (based on the previous definition): This is the source, spirit, life energy, force, God, awareness, consciousness, subjectivity itself, etc. When these concepts are not seen in conflict with one another then there is Truth. Words can't define what it is in totality, they can only show certain aspects.

I think there could be an argument for each of the 5 skandahs being yin, yang, or some combination of the two. That said, duelism vs. non-duelism is another form of duelism. In think in Buddhism to get past that it is referred to as the emptiness of emptiness. Each path is a system/idea overlayed onto reality itself. But, can we get rid of the ideas? Aren't they part of what is going on too? We can call them partial truth, conditioning, etc. but the truth is that ideas are there where we get confused is when we don't see them for what they are. To resolve duel vs. non-duel we only need to remove our clinging and pushing away of ideas... that's just a few thoughts from the mind I'm closest to

To answer the original question: honesty

You can't have one without the other, you can't eliminate anything, what's there is there just as it is... to me that's non-divisive, there's no conflict, it's just Truth. You can't dig a hole without making mounds of dirt, it's all just shifting things around but it's all there - nothing removed, nothing added, no conflict. But, when we effortlessly 'move' our awareness to a focal point are we just creating more division in our minds? What drives the intention to focus on this vs. that... is it just ego tricks? That's what I'm trying to understand... what drives intention? Can there be intention that isn't driven from our conditioning? Even in posting this I recognize that I feel a sense of satisfaction, like I did something good, and that drove me to reply again... like a mouse stepping on the key to get his food... is it possible to have intention without the extra layers? Hmm... Edit: the NPR story from xuesheng gives us evidence that the possibility is there... and doubting the possibility hinders it's manefestation while believing in it can create an untrue representation... wow my head hurts, time for some sleep!