Unconditioned

So I was watching southpark last night (I'll never grow up ) and had an idea for a thread. Maybe we could all post a brief personal insight to share with the rest of the bums... it can be about anything but generally it should be one of those "ah ha!" moments you've had. I'll start... Empathy is not putting yourself in someone else's shoes, by doing that you're only looking at your self.

So true! Today I realized that, I help people even my own family for some form of acceptance, a way to feel good about 'me'. That has driven the majority of my actions, people pleasing and the like but... In acknowledging the truth about desire/motivation without judging it, you can see it for what it is... otherwise it's all just a hoax, for 'self' preservation, like being in an open cage insisting there's no way out because we have our hands over our eyes. something like that... Nice Sometimes just switching things up a bit can shake up our routine in all the right ways

Very well said, thank you. Good point, maybe this is the distinction between awareness and attention. Awareness is the impartial 'light', it's the unchanging movement, etc. no words can properly describe awareness without adding some 'view' on top of it but I think you get what I'm getting at. Attention on the other hand... what is that? Is it a focused awareness driven by intention? Or just the mind dividing things up like it likes to do? Hmm...

So some observations: -Organizations can go too far -Labels divide (country, religion, etc.) -TBs can have a constructive conversation and investigate together -Everyone is biased -It's Friday and time to leave work Really though, a very interesting discussion. Back to the sidelines for this guy!

Does this mean that in order to have intention we must have awareness of the 'thing/action' we intend? So with the fly example, the fly may not be thinking "move the wing, move the wing" but do they need to be aware that they have the possibility to move? With the breathing I would assume we have to be aware of our breathing in order to alter it (e.g., when we are asleep are we able to change our breathing?). So, can we infer that awareness is required for intention? And if so what are the implications? Agreed that this is a very interesting post!

Also if the though 'I am the body' is there then the meditation is useful. Use a match to light the fire, then burn it in the flames.

I definitely have that "Wow, really? I thought that?" with a lot of my posts. It's so obvious sometimes when rereading them what state of mind I was in too... either anxious, angry, boastful, happy, nostalgic, etc. etc. But we shouldn't be too critical, causes and conditions... how much control do we have over them anyway?

That was a huge one for me as well. I had some romantic idea about how other people were so great and they had it all figured out, they could handle anything and do anything, etc. Then one day I realized they're just human too... and I have more respect than I did before knowing that they don't have some magic ability... they just work hard at what they do. Sort of like when you find out your parents don't have all the answers but on a much larger scale. ... This one hit me today: Feeling significant discomfort, like when someone/something makes you really upset, is a huge sign that there is an... incorrect(?) assumption or view that needs a good looking at. It's really a huge gift when something riles us up in a good or bad way. It's like if our bodies didn't have pain we wouldn't know that we were injured... same for our spirit... gives us good a wake up call!

Left hand over my right hand palms up the majority of the time, sometimes palms down one hand on each knee. Edit: I found quite a few diagrams using this search http://images.google.com/images?q=mudras&a...p;um=1&sa=2

I had purchased the book "Awareness" by Anthony DeMello and found the audio lectures that made up the text on youTube. These talks/books are very interesting in that he is a Christian but his ideas are very eastern (and I'll venture to say Taoist). Here is a link to the complete playlist: http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=EC25151943DE0F35 Thought I'd share this with the bums, enjoy!

Liberal just left of center.

No problem! I'll definitely have to check out the CDs, he's so down to earth and easy to understand... one of my favorites.

I haven't read that one but "The Tao of Physics" is a similar book.. it compares quantum mechanics and particle theory to Buddhism, Taoism, and Hinduism. Some of the connections are very very closely related.

I've been thinking a lot lately about fear. My personality type general lends myself to yielding (yin) but I think to an unhealthy extreme. Allowing others to dominate, push things in their direction, etc. even if it's clearly not the 'best' thing for the situation. I think the root of the issue is fear, fear of conflict specifically. But then I started to wonder, what is the root of fear? I've read a lot about the topic but still don't think I get it completely. I've gotten as far as this: Fear is related to expectation. Expectation of discomfort IF a particular action is taken. So, in the conditioned human fashion, we push away discomfort or try to avoid it. But, do we just accept discomfort and allow others to dominate while we sit idle? Do we take action against it? Isn't that just pushing fear away? What do other people think about the root of fear? I think if fear is removed, a sense of freedom remains.. maybe... hmm.

This reminds me of when I was younger and I couldn't believe that I was a prideful person (case in point lol)... someone told me that not allowing another person to help you is pride... I always thought I was being 'noble' by doing things on my own... aka, an excuse not to look into it. I think this is similar for me personally, I've just always assumed that I was an easy going person who never got angry or did very little. Obviously some long standing patterns with this one and some digging-in required... I even noticed that my initial reaction was "I don't have an anger problem at all"... another form of avoidance/aversion. So, thank you and everyone else.. all of the replies have been helpful! Thanks cat =) Its comforting to know that there are others that go through similar experiences. I also share your experience of when I am fluid with people everything is great and the yielding (aka shutting down) doesn't arise.

I am curious as to what other people's opinions are on finding a Guru/Master/Teacher for your spiritual practice. I have not had one to date and have used books, youTube, forums (like this one), etc. to learn practices which I then do and learn directly from those experiences. I've also done some 'experimental' meditation - for example during meditation if i do something such as move my eyes upwards I feel a strong sense of energy. I later found out that this is a type of yoga meditation for the ajna chakra. This has happened on a half a dozen occasions where I did something that resonated only to find out that it is a formal meditation practice. So, is listening to the 'inner guru' (intuition) an effective technique or am I just reinventing the wheel through experimentation from time to time within my daily practice?

You can make anything out of anything. Anyone that is good at debating can win any argument by finding evidence or discrediting the other sides evidence. It's fruitless to me to play the game of 'let me one-up you'. Tic-Tock. What's real? What's fake? I don't know, but I'm aware and alive.

Just out of curiosity how did they get to the "25%" figure? Sample size?

Wow - I'm speechless. I feel like you've been spying on me, that's dead on. I'm hardly ever angry, I tend to find anger useless with a few minor exceptions where it's justified to protect, and I can't stand being around people that have a short fuse. Hmm, I've held the belief for some time that fear is the root of anger but maybe there's some value to examining anger as well...

Maybe this guy could give us a hand

On either side of the argument lies a judgment/belief: Kun Lun is bs (same with emitting light, etc.) and Kun Lun is legit (along with taking pictures of emitting light). Each of us has a propensity towards skepticsm or acceptance but at the root of each is conditioned belief and a judgment call about each. Most of this thread feels like people have made up their minds and are finding evidence to support their decision. I think there are better uses of time personally. If you don't belief Kun Lun is legit, that's fine. If you do believe that it's legit, that's fine. Why try to prove or disprove one another?

I think if we have fear of ______ (safety, death, punishment, etc.) we're creating an object in our minds. For example, we fear the safety of a loved one because we have an idea about them, we love them for a bunch of reasons, experiences, memories, etc. ... basically because we have an image of that thing. Lets assume we can see past the image of the thing, including the image of our self, and actually see it for what it is (whatever that is). Can there still be fear? Hmm...

My Morning Jacket, Amazed. im amazed in the quiet ocean im amazed at your wrong devotion im amazed at what the people saying im amazed by a divided nation like the middle of the earth i get disrupted im amazed at all that has been im amazed at all who be im amazed at the tv stations im amazed what they want me to believe after all is said and done now lets seek justice im amazed at the evoltion im amazed at the lack of faith im amazed at love we are rejected im amazed that we accepted this place like the middle of the earth and the middle of the ages like a river i get disrupted im amazed im amaaaaaaaaaazed...... im amazed Death Cab For Cutie, The Ice Is Getting Thinner We're not the same, dear As we used to be The seasons have changed And so have we And there was little we could say And even less that we could do To stop the ice from getting thinner Under me and you We buried our love In a wintery grave A lump in the snow Was all that remained Though we stayed by its side As the days turned to weeks And the ice kept getting thinner With ever word that we'd speak And when the spring arrived We were taken by surprise When the flows under our feet Bled into the sea And nothing was left For you and me We're not the same, dear And it seems to me There's nowhere we can go With nothing underneath And it saddens me to say What we both knew was true That the ice was getting thinner Under me and you The ice was getting thinner Under me and you

I think what you're doing (introspection) will help you figure things out for yourself. Religion is a spiritual system... like all systems, it's just a label, a map, with limited descriptions. I'm going to use it, yes it's cliche but so true: Careful not to confuse the map for the territory. Knowing a lot about maps doesn't mean you've seen nature itself. Edit: But, the maps (labels, systems, paths, etc.) can be useful tools as well. The Tao doesn't exclude anything nor does it add, it simply is ... everything.

I used to use the concept of "Future self" when I was feeling really lazy. For example, if I didn't feel like doing housework I fast forwarded to my future self who was ticked off that 'past self' didn't do the work earlier. Or, in a more positive sense, I would think 'future self will really like if I exercise today'. Looks like tech has caught up with some of my crack-pot ways of dealing with life lol. I'll email future self and see what his take on it is