nac

And here I thought I'd never see a track record worse than Trungpa's. As a lay lama, Trungpa reminds me of Rasputin in the movie Dark Servant of Destiny. This guy's more like a Bond villain or something...

People dislike contrarians and many Buddhists are contrarians by nature. For instance: I don't like the idea of door-to-door evangelism either, (evangelism is illegal here) but I disagree that people have the right not to have their cherished beliefs questioned in public at all. If my beliefs were incorrect, I'd want others to tell me why and shake me out of my wretched self-complacency.

Exactly. You're sure, I'm not. But if you ever begin to doubt, you're always welcome. I'm glad you're enjoying yourself. Soto Zen is the only religious sect I know of that teaches this.

No really, I'm not sure drewhempel realizes how different our goals are. He seems to want enlightenment-experiences, magic powers and having as much fun with these as possible, while we're used to seeing everything through the dark glasses of Bodhicitta. If that's really what he wants, I'd advise him to avoid Hinduism, Buddhism and Indo-Tibetan tantra. (perhaps authentic Taoism too, I wouldn't know)

I've already said I don't know much about Vajrayana, as I'm neither a practitioner nor particularly interested in it. My knowledge consists of a small portion of Vajrayana's exoteric teachings, so it's possible what I said isn't entirely correct. Still, are you sure this book is relevant to my post in this context? Source: http://www.amazon.com/Dakinis-Warm-Breath-...e/dp/157062920X

Addiction to emptiness? Who taught him Buddhism?

I think our goals are different here. Take up those practices that give you what you're looking for.

This is in accord with Tibetan Buddhism. All Tibetan schools say it's impossible to attain complete enlightenment in this lifetime without sexual tantra. Gelugpa monks simply renounce enlightenment and try to achieve it at the moment of death.

Apparently some amount of renunciation is necessary for Indo-Tibetan tantra, no matter how minimal. How much is needed depends on the capacity of the individual, but this renunciation must come from the heart. There's a Bengali poem about a Bodhisattva entering a great city on his alms round. When the rich showered gold and silver on him, he walked right over their treasures and left the place with a tattered bit of rag from a wretched female beggar. PS. What they teach isn't energy healing you know.

I don't understand what all the fuss is about. cya!

Be nice.

It's true, these prices are usually negotiable. Most Indo-Tibetan tantric masters are open to discussing this with their students & prospective students. All prices are negotiable in India, from table salt to tantric teachings. Go figure! PS. In fact, Tibetan Buddhists claim that no one's turned away from Tibetan tantric teachings for lack of funds. You can volunteer to wash dishes if need be. I dunno about that, but masters really are open to bargaining.

That makes sense. I would've mixed up you two if I hadn't already seen your posts in E-Sangha. (and if Vajrasattva didn't talk about the Creator all the time)

What's wrong with you people? V: I think drewhempel is asking you not to tell him what his own views are. drewhempel: Oh wait, if you're saying that enthroning live goddesses made old Nepal or pre-Buddhist Tibet full-fledged matriarchies or something... What about female Buddhas and female Tulku lineages? Not to mention patriarchal Indo-Persian goddess worshipers? Goddess worship has nothing to do with female empowerment like feminists seem to think. I should know. I live in Kolkata, a city dedicated to the ultimate embodiment of feminine power. The source of this pervasive delusion is probably due to the overbearingly masculine Christian God and certain aspects of western popular culture. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDkhzHQO7jY

He says the Dalai Lama respects Bonpos only out of political considerations. I can't decide whether he's just a Buddha fanatic or E-Sangha's pet wrathful deity.

I have an auto-login cookie and I just went to the site to give you the URL. There are one or two very dedicated members there, but they all log on at the same time. You might have to wait a day for responses. Quite a few Tibetan Buddhists on E-Sangha think Tibetan philosophy has Hellenic connections. PS. One possibility for "Tazig" the article doesn't mention is Tajikistan, which some scholars think Bon might have originated from. Another thing, the Bonpos exiled from Tibet went to the Yunnan province, where they survived until modern times. This book describes them and some of their rituals right before the cultural revolution: http://pratyeka.org/books/peter_goullart_-...ten_kingdom.zip

I doubt any sentient being is really "for" Good or Evil, irrespective of what they profess to believe. This is often used a means to prettify Us vs. Them conflicts. Originally, Jews didn't believe in a good & evil conflict. Later Abrahamic religions borrowed it from Zoroastrian beliefs.

I was talking about male-female relations in pre-revolution Tibet. Yeah, it's pretty hard on Nepali ex-goddesses. Tibet probably had something like that before the old system was replaced with Tulku lineages. BTW one shouldn't confuse old Bon with the modern Bon tradition, which is quite different from what it used to be: http://www.berzinarchives.com/web/en/archi...n_buddhism.html The modern Bon tradition is very much alive and flourishing in India (and internationally) with the Dalai Lama's blessing, along with the other Tibetan religious traditions. If you're interested, here's a Bonpo forum: http://yungdrung-rignga-ling.forums-free.com/

I don't know, it'll take quite some time to lay out everything that's wrong with her views on symbolism and the way she presents her case in general, but I've run out of motivation at the moment. From tantra's point of view, it's possible that this so-called madonna/whore dichotomy represents a tantric transmutation of how males view women or something like that... I'm not at all sure about this since I'm not a Vajrayana practitioner myself. I wonder if what the Dalai Lama said counts as "disparaging women", or whether he sets the standard for what counts as disparagement. BTW I'm sorry I exaggerated a bit yesterday. Saudi Arabia is probably the most patriarchal nation on the planet as of now. (I hope) Women there aren't allowed to eat at McDonald's without being accompanied by a male family member: http://richarddawkins.net/forum/viewtopic....f=3&t=25015 Even my uncle who has gone to Japan remarks about how male-dominating and patriarchal the Japanese are in their private lives. Still, modern India is pretty doggone patriarchal. Vajrahridaya: Wikipedia says that Sumerians used to practice polyandry until king Urukagina outlawed it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyandry#Human_polyandry (Sumerians even called themselves the ung-sang-ging "black-headed people" just like Tibetans) The practice could've been spread throughout the ancient Mesopotamian cultural continuum. Just another random guess, I'm certainly no scholar on the topic. The Tibetan custom might also be linked to their common heritage with the Mosuo people of Yunnan. PS. Want to hear what Khoisan Bushmen languages sound like? http://globalrecordings.net/program/C17870 On a side-note, this has nothing in common with the situation in old Tibet.

Speaking of Madonna/Whore dichotomy, have you guys read the Indian epics? I sometimes find their "morality" impossible to tolerate. Anyway, I'll let real Vajrayana practitioners answer these charges if they care to, but frankly, I'm having difficulty imagining Tibet of all places suffering from a Madonna complex. In reality, Tibetan culture was much less "patriarchal" than India, China, Persia or Mongolia, the countries surrounding it. Polyandry and even free love were common among both ordinary people and nobles, lamas and non-lamas. (every other person carried STDs) Both sexes practiced whatever profession they pleased and there were lots of female lamas too. Some early western visitors called them jolly, but decadent and depraved. It's a mystery how the Madonna complex fits into a picture like this...

Hinduism is full of "Great Mother" goddesses. In all probability, India is still the most patriarchal nation on the planet. Bon is a shamanic tradition related to folk Taoism that was heavily influenced by Zoroastrianism and the neighboring despotic Persian culture. Persia was never exactly a matriarchal ideal, you know, being racial cousins of us Indians and all. Even before Zoroastrian sage-kings like Xerxes, Persian culture was similar to Vedic culture. I try to keep an open mind about these things. I just have a very strong bullshit detector.

Nah... I feel really sorry for what happened to her, but I wasn't convinced by her weak arguments. I think it's probable that Tibetans merely replaced their native mythology-oriented theocracy for an imported one. They were the ones who started the practice of "recognizing reincarnated lamas" after all. Tulku was essentially a government position just like that of Chinese officials. Meanwhile, the Chinese kept their sacred hierarchy, one based on folk Taoism.

More info: http://www.buddhistethics.org/4/lang2.html http://www.anandainfo.com/tantric_robes.html I would of course never defend the suffering she went through, but I nevertheless find June Campbell's analysis of Tibetan symbolism and her assertions that Bon was an earth-goddess religion questionable to say the least. On the other hand, it's true that Tibetan civilization was at a very primitive, priest-king stage like ancient Sumer. Then again, there are theories that the traditional imperial hierarchy of China had been derived from ancient Sino-Tibetan beliefs about heavenly officials and hierarchies. The Chinese emperor was titled the Son of Heaven and was supposed to command an unquestioning, nearly religious obedience. They also surrounded themselves with innumerable concubines, but at least they didn't try to keep all this stuff a secret...

Bah! Owing to the climate, organic matter rarely rots in Tibet.