h.uriahr

Your school recognizes an Indonesian Master correct? It would appear as though you are connected to John Chang?

Hung Lung Hei Gung!

I disagree with you completely. http://supremeboundlessway.com/2011/11/21/esoteric-formula-of-spiritual-alchemy-the-four-pillars-and-sixteen-fortitudes/ Right Time is very important. You have to have the means to support your Master be it financially or in someother way as to benefit them. If you cant pay him financially then you'd better be able to clean his house, do some laundry or frame a wall, set a sink, etc. If the 'practice' resonates with you, and I mean REALLY resonates with you then IME, you'll have a love so deep that you will feel that drive to pay your Master in any way possible. My experience is just as I stated. I do have one other thing I'd like to add and it's this. If someone is driven to take up a certain practice and they show desire above and beyond the average person but are completely unable to afford the teachings then I believe that you should teach them and charge them within their means.

Edit: You say you can "document" this. I challenge you to provide financial proof or whatever "documents" you may have.

This is obviously about money then? Should a "master" work a full time job AND then find the time to teach for free? What's reasonable? If I have a family and work making a meager living, should I still charge little to nothing? What if I'm barely clothing my daughter? What if I can do miraculous things like cure cancer and create light with my palms? If I can prove under scientific scrutiny that I'm capable of the things I've mentioned then how much can I charge?

The only real question here is what's justifiable? $100? $200? $2000? I've seen his form of XSZ and it's very interesting. As to his other stuff? I dont know. Either way it seems a bit odd that all people really have to go off of is his "price". I havent actually ever read the opinion of someone who has actually put in the time to practice his material and then said "this is shit". It seems this is happening more and more with not just him (David) but others as well. The other issue with your statement is in regards to the mo pai. I'm not sure I've ever personally read anything that lead me to believe that he just flat out teaches neigong in the early foundation classes. What I gathered from his foundation forum and his seminar postings was that you had to take the 2 foundation classes and then possibly proceed to the neigong. Either way I dont think that there's been any actual evidence presented that would make me actually believe that David is an actual "conman". If charging money is all we have then IMO I would regard David as just a seeker of truth, much like myself. I should say that I'm neither for nor against David but I think that for this to be fair, we need to look at both sides. Wang Liping for instance, charges $3500 for his seminars and noone complains. Wang Liping hasnt been subjected to any kind of scientific scrutiny that I'm aware of but people seem to say "yeah ok he's real though". How so? John Chang is another example. No real actual evidence other than a video. Videos are made all the time. If you think his looks real then according to all the "videos" I've seen, dinosaurs are loose on an island and terminators are coming back from the future to kill John and Sarah Connor but luckily we're under the protection of the power rangers and they'll fly all of civilization into space and warp us to another dimension David very well could be a conman but he could also be an honest seeker who has unfortunately been "conned" himself by teacher after teacher. Also, just because he may have had some issues in the past doesnt mean that he's tainted for life. As seekers of truth shouldnt we all be forgiving? I mean especially if we havent actually been effected by him? All I've heard so far is a "friend of a friend or a brother of this guy I once knew had this Uncle whose cousin went to the seminar". My loose change

It's a different Sean. I've spoken with this Sean a few months ago. Seems nice although I'm not going.

Phore, I purchased his neikung lvl 4 awhile back. It wasnt exactly meant for me, not my style I should say. I've heard good things about his 9 breath method. If I were you I'd go, if nothing else just go for the experience of practicing in a field that large.

Friend, I'm not really sure as to what your history is in regards to qigong, etc. but my suggestion would be to stick with one system. I feel like people go through certain phases in their training and when they hit that "stale" spot, that spot where they dont feel they are gaining anymore, that they jump ship when in fact had they continued training, they wouldve had a great break through.

Juice is gained just like muscle strength is gained, through "working out". Juice can also be gained through sincerity of practice and will as well. You dont necessarily have to practice for x amount of hours for x amount of days to see results just so long as you have the determination and the right sincerity. For those who dont have that special inner drive, lots and lots of practice will gradually build juice.

Wouldnt you have to cut the "cords" holding the "yin center" in place as well?

Not a terrible video this one. I'd be a little more convinced if it were my own Benchmade though http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBJ282HB8iQ&feature=related And I still find this one very strange. I'm almost convinced this is legit.

I bowed out because this whole argument is going nowhere. My last thought. Good luck on your journey and I wish you the best.

Atleast one of us has it figured out

My point about the DVDs was that there are a few of them that give real Tao gong meds. The only reference you have is what Gary has fed you. Good luck with your practice.

Do you have any of Liao Sifu's Private Invitation material?

I didnt ask for dates or anything like that. When I met with my Sifu I asked him if he had heard of Gary Clyman and he said yes. He said he kicked him out of his class. He said that Gary was bounced to a few teachers in the system and then when he got to him he threw him out. Gary was in the system for something like 2-3 years if I remember correctly. I'd really rather not go into the details of how or why. My Sifu isnt hard to find if you google search Waysun Liao on google images. You'll find my Sifu's website I'm sure. Here's a hint, he was the first named Master by Liao here in the US. He also said that alot of his material is bullshit. Not that it wasnt effective but that it's not the end all and that it's easy to get stuck in martial ability. Clyman reached the neikung portion of his training I'm sure of that. He didnt reach the real core of tai chi however. If you read Gary's site he says that "He had many sessions with Liao and that he always answered his questions". He didnt say that "he always gave me proper corrections and advice". Gary's head is too large for this forum. I thought about attending a seminar but then decided to delve deeper into the temple style system itself and do some research. For the average everyday guy, Gary is fine but if you want a deep spiritual path then forget it. Find an actual Ordained Master. Gary is missing a few things. 1) Gary doesnt get you involved in flow training. Flow your chi to grow your chi. That's very very important. 2) Gary cant give you real Tao Gong. I've ran through his dvd about 30 times thinking that I missed something (Dorian black said I did so I looked) and I've found nothing. Unless Dorian is thinking his hyper speed MCO or Left Right vibration is Tao work then I guess if GARY wants to call it Tao Gong then by all means, but it's not really Tao Gong. About the jing. I'm sure Gary can push really far and that's great and everything but real fah jing, from the spirit, is devestating.

I cant say for sure if John Chang is actually legit but if he is then he is light years beyond Gary. There's a clear and obvious difference between the 2. The thing that needs to be understood about this is that 1) Gary was removed from the Temple Style school. Not on his own will. He was thrown out. 2) Gary didnt finish the training. He may tell you he did but he didnt. If you bring up certain aspects of real Tao Gong training, which is beyond neikung, he doesnt have a clue as to what you're talking about. 3) If you train exactly like Gary teaches, be it chikung or neikung, there's a good chance that you'll develop the kind of mentality, ego, that Gary has. Has anyone noticed that Liao Sifu isnt like this?? I've seen Gary's supposed "jing" videos and none of his videos are impressive to me. The only fah jing I've ever experienced felt like I was in a car wreck. The force was such that my ears rang and my mind fell out and I had a temporary amnesia, forgetting where I was and what I was doing then an actual fear for once because I've never experienced such power and the funny thing is that my sifu has nowhere near the power that Liao Sifu has. I'm sure Gary has juice but I'd guarantee you that he is nowhere as powerful as any of the actual "Ordained" Masters in the temple style system, and I could careless if he sucks and explodes and vibrates and ups and downs etc etc for hours and hours a day for 50 yrs. That doesnt matter if you dont ever actually touch upon the tao within. peace

Are you opposed to the idea of paying for teaching period or just that amount? I find it odd that people demand free teaching and expect a teacher to have a full time job while succumbing to the desires of his students.

If it came from Jim then I'm not exactly sure you can rely on it. If it came from John then maybe but even then, I'm sure John has only a limited amount of direct experience with other masters like Liping. This is just an opinion of course. Jim has said before that he didn't really dive into the actual workings of what he was doing. His approach was a little different than say Kosta, who has an engineering background yada yada yada. I would take what anyone has to say about "this method vs that method" with a grain of salt unless they've had some substantial time to practice both.

Write a letter. I suppose that requires an envelope and stamp which costs money so never mind that one. How about email? He has a student who is a certified teacher who can perform daigong. Look her up and email her that question. She may be able to help you out. I suppose it's probably best if Master Liping had a solid job year round and then allowed students worldwide to fly to receive free, private training. Here's a question. If he taught for free, would you actually save up the airfare and hotel money for that trip or would you gripe that he doesn't fly out to you personally?

Pick up some extra side work and save up the money so you can go present the question to him personally.

How about you Google it...jeez

You are correct. It did become Tai Chi Chuan after it turned martial. The original Tai Chi was referred to as Tao Gong, because that's what it was, working the Tao. The entire Yang Form is like a kata anyhow. Martial applications are possible without any actual internal power. Spiritually, if memory serves, Tai Chi, as moving meditation, started with 8 forms. 8 essential forms. This was the first DVD I purchased from Master Liao. 8 Forms 6 Essential Components. As you progress you can gain access to his Private Library. My Sifu resides in Florida. I've had nothing but great success with the system. You have to go beyond the name. If you'd like a basic system intro then get either DVD. TE BOOK. Tao:The Way of God.