liminal_luke

I agree that meeting increasing violence with increased security seems a rational response. It`s unfortunate that much of our culture sees even just having feelings -- nevermind their open expression -- as a sign of weakness. That attitude has led to so much needless suffering. To me it`s just the opposite. To be in touch with one`s feelings and willing to appropriately and forcefully express them is a great strength. There`s power in emotional sensitivity.

The people who call what fear and anger? People respond in all sorts of ways to terrorist attacks. Some respond in conscious ways and others respond in ways that are distorted by unacknowledged emotion. Note that I`m not saying that people who "see the problem of terrorism" necessarily belong in the later camp.

Agreed. And I`d add that it`s unacknowledged feeling that largely keeps people from being able to take rational action. It`s crucial that we acknowledge and express our sadness, our grief, our rage. Most of us will feel those things; it`s only human to do so. But we don`t want to act out of a rageful trance. If we give ourselves space to deal with whatever feelings come up, the emotional storm will pass, our tears will dry, and we`ll do the right thing -- whatever that may be.

Some further thoughts on the Monk-Lite approach.... Monk-lite is not for ascetics. It`s important to balance austerity with indulgence, to consider how to nourish the five senses with pleasurable experiences. You could get a massage, soak in a jacuzzi, float in an isolation tank. Retreatants might spend time at a museum looking in a particularly contemplative way at favorite works of art. You might eat foods that are not only healthy but also delicious. This is in stark contrast to the usual no-pain, no-gain way of the weekend (spiritual) warrior. Our culture tends to be big on achievement; we`re all trying to "improve" and become more than we are. It`s easy to bring this competitive mentality to our spiritual pursuits. The monk-lite approach is all about harnessing the power of gentleness, being kind to ourselves, in order to do something radically different. Monk-lite retreats might sound like wimpy versions of the more hardcore meditation retreats, but they can be just as powerfully transformative, and sometimes more so. There is great potency in letting go of our more-is-better compulsivity and settling into something easy and appropriate to where we are in the moment.

Lots of great ideas here already. How you spend your monk weekend very much depends on what kind of monk you are. I`m on the lazy side so I prefer a monk-lite experience. Advanced practitioners might benefit from sunrise prostrations and a rigorous meditation schedule, but there`s a transformational magic that comes from making small easy shifts too. Some ideas... * A weekend without motorized transportation. Stay home or walk everywhere you go. * A weekend without TaoBums. Or for the really daring, without any screens. No TV, no computer. * Wanna dial it up a notch? Ditch the phone * Still not extreme enough for you? Do the weekend in silence. Can be a planned silence with other people. I`ve been at so-called silent retreats where talking was allowed for the purpose of daily chores. For a more complete silent experience, solitude is best. * Consider the location. Nature is good. You could rent a house in the beach or mountains. If that`s too upscale, there`s always tent camping. * Decide how you feel about books, writing. When I was doing my silent retreat reading was forbidden. The idea, I think, was that it would distract from meditative focus. I get how that cound be, and also think reading and writing might make a nice focus for a monk-lite retreat. It all depends what kind of monk you want to be. * Most monks do without alcohol and pot. (Hey, don`t look at me -- I didn`t make the rules.) * On the other hand, I can imagine a couples monk-weekend with some planned sex, massage, etc. That`s probably not the kind of weekend you had in mind, but just sayin`. * A monk weekend might be a good time to kickstart a special healthy diet. Opinions vary on what makes a healthy diet, let alone a spiritual one, so I won`t advise on particulars. If there`s a particular food, or type of food, that you regularly eat and would like to experiment with doing out, now`s the time. * Give some thought to "reentry." How do you want to bring your monk experience back into your normal life. Are there aspects of what you did during the weekend that you`d like to make a regular part of your routine? Could you schedule a monk-fifteen minutes daily? What insights did you have during the weekend that you want to take with you when you go?

“What are your fees?" inquired Guyal cautiously. "I respond to three questions," stated the augur. "For twenty terces I phrase the answer in clear and actionable language; for ten I use the language of cant, which occasionally admits of ambiguity; for five, I speak a parable which you must interpret as you will; and for one terce, I babble in an unknown tongue.” ― Jack Vance, Tales of the Dying Earth

To lie habitually, as a way of life, is to lose contact with the unconscious. It is like taking sleeping pills, which confer sleep but blot out dreaming. The unconscious wants truth. It ceases to speak to those who want something else. Adrienne Rich

I know your intentions are good, Aetherous, but I think sometimes the good fight can change us in ways we don`t expect and wouldn`t of wanted. Part of the beauty of America is that everybody is allowed to be an idiot -- even me. I hope that never changes.

I get that you were talking hypothetically, that you don`t harbor a grudge against me personally. Thank you for saying that. Nevertheless, I`d ask you to think your hypothetical through. What kind of country would we be if regular Joes off the street who express opinions about Islam different from your own were routinely imprisoned for 25 years? I`m not a big flag waver, but I actually rather like the United States. It`s so much better than, say, Saudi Arabia. You know what makes it better? Gay people are not thrown off buildings. Women are not forced to live their public lives from behind a veil. And --drum roll please -- nobody is imprisoned for 25 years for expressing any kind of opinion (no matter how bizarre or wrongheaded) about any religion. You presumably started this thread to warn about downplaying the horror of Islamic fundamentalism. As a result of some things people have said, I`m reconsidering a few things. I`m no longer convinced that Trump`s travel ban was purely motivated out of racism and xenophobia, for instance. His manner of expressing himself still disgusts me, but I`m willing to entertain the idea that he made the right decision. I`ve changed, just a bit. Is that really such a bad outcome?

It sounds like you`re picking up that it`s a little hard to be an active poster here in these political Daobums threads right now for someone like me. If so, you`re right. The vast majority seem to lean to the right and I feel a bit out on a limb. Every so often Trunk will post an interesting (to me) video -- and Ralis can always be counted on to argue with Brian -- but there`s not a lot of Bums pushing back against the conservative tide. Just me. And really, I don`t push that hard. (It might not seem like it, but my views have actually been greatly influenced by what I`ve read here from more conservative bums. I believe you guys are having a much greater influence on me than I`m having on you. For better or worse.) I`d like you to know that a lot of time and effort goes into those posts you find so offensive. It`s a little silly how much of myself I`ve been putting into Daobums lately, probably a whole lot more than makes sense. I don`t want to be silenced either, but it might make sense for me to put my creative energies into some other project. OK, so now to your question: do I really find Trump`s name calling a horrendous thing? Well, it`s not as horrendous as killing 22 kids -- obviously. But then I wasn`t comparing Trump`s behavior to the terrorists in question; I was judging it on it`s own merits. When I hear Trump call the perpetrators "losers," well yeah, I just feel sort of disgusted. Disgusted that our level of political discourse has sunk to such a base level. You said the other day that "everyone roots for the home team." I don`t want to believe that. That seems so unspiritual to me, so the opposite of the kind of consciousness I look for in myself and hope to see in others. So now of course the question is what do I think of Obama. Why am I criticizing Trump if I didn`t criticize Obama. Well, better late than never, OK? Obama might be worse than Trump because he`s so much less obvious. It only takes me a minute of watching Trump before I`m aghast that someone so puffed up and seemingly shallow could possibly be so popular. Obama is sneakier. To my way of thinking (and I know you hate this) Trump is an obvious narcissist, and Obama is a not so obvious sociopath. We`re probably better off with a narcissist than a sociopath. Before you get too offended by my reply, I hope you`ll take a second to consider how I might feel knowing you think I deserve to be imprisoned for 25 years. At first I thought you were being a little hyperbolic about criminalizing free speech, so I asked for clarification and you gave it to me: 25 years It seems so preposterous to me that it`s hard to really believe you mean it, but I guess I have to take you at your word. I don`t think I`d survive in prison that long. So the way I look at it, you`re really saying you want me dead. I can`t think of anything I could possibly say to you that would be more offensive than that.

Thanks, Brian I haven`t watched the video you mentioned yet. For the record though, I`m not an Obama fan.

It`s not naming per se that turns me off. There`s lots of names I wouldn`t mind -- criminals, murderers, terrorists, Islamic Jihadists. These are names that do what names are supposed to do, indicate what something is. Calling someone a "loser" is something else. It`s a playground taunt. A rhetorical device designed to appeal to our emotions, bait for the lowest-common-denominator reptilian part of our collective minds. Unfortunately, it works. If there`s one thing my time here on Off Grid has proven to me, it`s this -- that this kind of low-level pandering to the very worst of who we are works.

Ugh! How awful that we have a president who needs to appeal to our lowest playground sensibilities by calling names. Lets prosecute criminals. Lets do what we can to prevent crime. Name calling -- "losers" -- that`s beneath the presidents dignity. Or should be. Is this video intended to make me like Trump? (It`s not working yet, guys.) It is unfortunate, however, that we don`t hear Obama directly giving his condolences to the families. I wonder if he never did, or it was just edited out of this clip?

RC, Point taken that Islamic violence predates American opposition of Islam -- and therefore can`t be said to "cause it." Touche! Still, contempt doesn`t help. When you tell someone over and over again that they are terrorists it`s that much easier to fall into that groove. Hatred doesn`t engender warm, tender feelings -- it just doesn`t. That`s not something I learned from a misguided left-wing Californian education; it`s just common sense. Let`s continue with your tiger analogy. Tigers can be dangerous, yes. And when they are treated hatefully do they turn into pussy cats? No, they do not. We gain nothing from disrespect. I`m not saying we shouldn`t protect ourselves. Lets put all our resources to work to identify where the real threats are and neutralize them. If that means some terrorists are killed I`m OK with that. If it means some people deemed dangerous are not allowed in the country, I`m OK with that too. What I`m not OK with is sending the message to millions of people that they are somehow less than human. If we follow Aetherous directives and start imprisoning fellow countrymen for saying things like "not all tigers kill" or putting CoExist bumber stickers on their Volkswagon Vans, we`ll be in trouble. Got a clear-minded strategy to keep us safe? I`m all for it. It`s the zenophobic posturing that irks me. You may be right that the roots of violence in Islam are deeper than the current political hysteria. If so, they also predate the era of hippy love-ins and modern California style public education. Telling me that I`m responsible for a child`s death because I dare to say that there`s such a thing as moderate (read: not murderous) Islam is just wrong.

Call my ideas ridiculous. Refuse to read another word I write. Report me to the moderators and circulate a petition asking to get me banned from the forum. Swear. Place me on ignore. Just don`t imprison me for 25 years -- that´s a step too far.

Even though you`re not in power (whew!) it does matter that you`d imprison me for 25 years for saying most Moslems are not murderous -- and not just to my mother. It matters because you`re not alone: there`s a whole slew of people who think pretty much like you. Imagine, if you will, what it might feel like to be a kid growing up in a country where a good chunk of the population thinks that someone should be imprisoned for saying that their family is less than murderous. You probably don`t think of yourself as hateful, but I bet a Moslem kid listening to you would feel hated. OK, here`s the clincher. You know what happens to people who grow up thinking the world hates them? Some proportion of them -- not all, but the ones who are, for a variety of reasons, particularly susceptible -- become terrorists. When you make someone feel that they are less than human, they`ll sometimes act in less than human ways. Which of course confirms your suspicions. So what do you do -- say that they`re all murderers and continue the cycle. The solution is to stop thinking of the "home team" in narrow terms. You are familiar, I know, with the Buddhist practice of Metta. People start out wishing kindness for themselves or their close relatives, and then expand out first wishing the larger community well, and ultimately sending good vibes to all sentient beings. I can`t honestly claim this kind of broad heartedness at the moment, but this is what I`m shooting for. Someday my "home team" will be the whole universe. I won`t cheer merely for the United States or the Democrats or middle-aged white gay men. I`ll feel connected with beings who seem profoundly different from me -- Bible beating Southern Baptists, young black rap musicians, stray catepillars crossing my path. Everybody will be on my team. And I will cheer for each and every one. (Doesn`t mean I won`t also shoot you if you try to kill me though.)

Years ago, at a silent Vipassasna retreat, a retreatant anonymously gave me a gift by putting something important to him on my meditation cushion. We were not supposed to interact with each other, and I`d never spoken with this person. While talking was forbidden, it was permissible to anonymously put a small gift on someones zafu (usually chocolate) as a gesture of goodwill. Of the hundred or so meditators in attendence this person chose to honor me with such a kindness. I decided that, rather than keep the gift, I would pass it on to someone else, and, without knowing who gave it to me in the first place, I gave it right back to him.

There`s no need Lois. I`ve got a feeling that Nungali is already a transformer (albeit a rambunctious one).

I`m on record here as saying that most people who identify as Moslem are not violent. Some of them are casually Islamic, in the same way that someone might be a C&E Christian. I also believe there are devout Moslems who believe in peace and struggle to come to terms with the violent passages in their religious texts. Do you know about the passage in the Old Testament/Torah that says the people of Amelek should be wiped from the face of the earth, ie anniliated? Here`s a sampling: 'Now go and strike Amalek and utterly destroy all that he has, and do not spare him; but put to death both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.'" On the face of it, killing Amalekites is a mitzvah, or good deed, just like visiting someone in the hospital or honoring your parents. And yet there are many peace loving religious Jews. Some of them struggle mightily with the apparently genocidal intent of this verse. I think some peace-loving religious Moslems also grapple in an analogous way with the violent parts of their texts. (And...I also agree with Brian that we should take people at their word when they say they want to hurt us.) So anyway, there you have it. I believe the vast majority of Moslems are far from murderous. Do you really think I should be imprisoned for saying so? How much time would you give me? Glad to hear it.

Of course not. And yet people with a casual relationship with Islam. innocent people, will get hurt if we go in and just "bomb them all" -- the "simple" solution suggested by some here. I`m not saying there`s not a place for a little targeted assassination; we`ve got the right --obligation even -- to protect ourselves and sometimes violence, however much we might hate it, is unavoidable. We should also take reasonable steps to protect our borders from those who would do us harm. (Unlike some particularly courgeous Bums I`ve been reading about lately, when I leave my house I lock the door.) Terrorists want to terrify us -- and they`ve largely succeeded. Many people are very afraid, and it seems to be getting worse. I don`t pretend to know the nitty gritty about what should be done about the problem of Islamic violence, but I do know this: nobody makes good decisions when they`re scared. As a country, we need to take a deep breath and find our center. Because only when we are in touch with our centers (our central channel in Taoist terms) do we have a chance of taking action which will actually bring peace. Aetherous said ..."It's something so easy to put a stop to...just annihilate them." This makes me nervous. When I`ve taken this approach in my personal life it hasn`t led to harmony, and I don`t recommend it now.

Since when is it such a crime to take a nuanced view? Religious texts are one thing, what people actually believe is another. In any religion, there will always be fundmentalists and people who "pick and choose" from a smorgasboard of beliefs and practices according to what makes sense to them. Putting up a Christmas tree because it`s a fun family tradition is not a gateway behavior to preaching the gospels on a street corner with a megaphone -- thank God. Regardless of what it may say in the Koran, the vast majority of Moslems are not violent. Pretending otherwise will not lead to peace.

Perfect deadpan delivery. I love it!

Speaking of horny hippy chicks, here´s a related question: do you friends just come on by whenever they want to visit or is it proper etiquette to call first? My old Portland buddies are divided on this question. Some like the community feel that happens when people feel free to drop on by; others gaurd their privacy and want ample warning before receiving visitors.

If I was a "Warrior of Peace" I´d try to break Marblehead out of the reeducation facility. Sadly, I don´t dare. Good luck, Marblehead!

I think it takes a certain gumption not to lock the house, an admirable cockeyed optimism and confidence. Personally though, I lock.