liminal_luke

Thought I´d say a little bit more. As you probably know, the practice is structured with a warm up routine, followed by a series of postures held for a specific amount of time with specific breathing, and finally a standard energy circulating routine at the end. It´s all very choreographed. The middle portion with postures and breathing changes as one advances through the system. There´s a lot of emphasis on breathing into the lower dan tien. It takes patience and work, but if you devote yourself to it there´s no doubt in my mind that it could take you very far. The culture around the practice is very "Sundo is all a person needs." For better or worse, I´m someone who likes to explore widely and integrate bits and pieces from what I pick up into my personal practice. That´s arguably not the best approach, but it´s what I´ve done, and for that reason the orthodoxy of "just do Sundo" didn´t work for me. Liminal

I did the practice briefly some years ago. Attended one "mountain retreat" in Virginia, I think it was. Anyway, I think it´s a great method even though I didn´t keep it up. I´m far from an expert but happy to answer any questions about my experience. Believe Trunk has also experienced the system. Liminal

You note, rightly I think, that your question is likely to piss some people off. Your curiosity about "plowing through several colleges of hotties" suggests a willingness to treat your sexual partners as objects, rather than as people. Of course, the upshot of this approach is that you end up treating yourself as an object as well. Apart from pissing people off, this behavior won´t get you very far spiritually. You´ll become disassociated from yourself, splintered into little pieces, which is exactly what you don´t want to do. The question I ask myself as a sexual person who wants to develop spiritually is this: what kind of sexual behavior/values will contribute to my feeling whole and complete? It´s a place to start. Liminal

I don´t know if this is what you mean as well Marblehead, but I´ve often wished people would talk in language I could understand. Sometimes, when I´ve really wanted to understand something and didn´t, I´ve asked for clarification and generally people are willing to try to explain. And for that, I´m grateful. Mostly though it´s hard to come upon such conversations because I like to think of myself as a smart guy, and when I don´t understand my ego takes a beating. Which happens quite a lot around here. Sometimes it´s because other people are just all-around more intelligent. Sometimes it´s just that they are talking about a subject I´m not knowledgeable about. Sometimes it´s because understanding the conversation requires a level of spiritual experience I don´t possess. There´s a subtle fear that flickers up when I´m confronted with something I don´t understand, something that challenges my ego. Part of the practice of being a bum, for me, is learning to allow people to be themselves. It sucks when that means accepting their brilliance, but there ya go. If I stay in the fear and ego, I suffer. If I accept myself and others, I suffer less. Liminal

A lot of people try meditation and give up, perhaps prematurely, because their experience doesn´t jive with what they think meditation should feel like. They think they should be relaxed, or shouldn´t have pain, or even that they shouldn´t have thoughts at all. When they try it and find their minds and bodies aren´t relaxed or calm or pain-free they give up. I suggest finding a class or teacher (if you don´t have already) who can offer support as you go through these experiences and put them in perspective. Liminal

Yes, it makes sense. I have no particular advice to give, but I´ve enjoyed reading your account of your process. Liminal

At the risk of going off-topic, I just wanted to say that sometimes it´s simply not possible to fully understand what a practice does without doing it. Yes, of course skepticism is good. And it´s certainly a good idea of approach possible practices with a cautious eye. But, having done a certain amount of due diligence, there´s also a place for a certain leap of trust. Sometimes we can only learn what a practice does through the practice of it. Liminal

Not sure it counts as "mystical poetry" but I wanted to share... Let me now celebrate all my beautiful failures, all my brilliant stupidities. For example: practicing Taoism like it was an army boot camp rather than a watercourse way. For example: tromping a straight line when the path before me meandered in graceful spirals, those lovely curves with their feminine ineffability so far above my karmic pay grade. For example: thinking I was in control of anything at all. Life is unimaginably immense. I tried to rocket into space on the tricycle of my ego and only succeeded in getting a few feet down the driveway. But, you know, I´ve got to believe that´s OK. Somehow there´s room even for someone like me, too, in this big, big universe. Here I am; Liminal_Luke: human being. For all my fumbling, I belong here. I guess we all do.

I learned it years ago from Michael Winn. In addition to his DVD of the form, which teaches the actual movements, he has a set of audio talks about it that go into more philosophical detail. If you´re interested in his take, they might be worth it though it´s been years since I´ve listened. Also, he´s writing a book about the form though I don´t think it´s released yet. Hopefully soon. In my experience, it´s a very valuable practice, but not the kind of thing that everyone feels a huge shift from immediately. It takes persistence, and doing the form multiple times a day helps. My two cents. Liminal

I´m remembering some of my old Taoist teachers (among them Healing Tao´s Juan Li) as recommending drinking a cup of plain hot water -- not tea or coffee -- first thing in the morning. Has anybody else heard of this? Does anybody practice this? Know the rationale? Thanks!

I like to think that amazing magical powers are just the natural extensions of everyday abilities and gifts common to many. What makes some people put spiritual growth at the center of their lives while others concern themselves with more mundane matters? It´s the siddhi of spiritual interest, a power shared by almost all of us long-term bums.

Yes I am. Though currently living in Mexico where ice fascism is not so much in vogue. Here an iced drink often amounts to some tepid fruit water with a single cube of ice floating on top. I love the freeze myself, so perhaps this is a case of getting what you need, not what you want.

My experience is that with these kinds of things the teachings themselves are often on a donation basis, so free if that´s what works for you. I´ve never heard of free lodging and meals though although perhaps that exists somewhere. The place I´ve been in Washington is called Cloud Mountain. Years ago but I assume it´s still humming along. One thought is that you might apply to work at one of these centers in exchange for lodging, food, and teachings.

Interesting about the gut bacteria connection Soaring Crane. I´ve been reading more and more lately about the importance of those little critters. Have also heard about the not drinking ice cold drinks recommendation. I love my cold ice tea, actually anything cold, so that would be a hard one for me. Might be worth trying for awhile though and see if I notice anything.

Many people want to have sex without reproducing. A few want to reproduce without having sex. Why judge? I think there´s this thought that by judging our own sexual impulses impulses and those of other people, we will somehow be able to keep this powerful force in some kind of check, perhaps even stop it altogether, or harness the energy to fuel our spiritual pursuits. My experience is the opposite: the more judgement there is, the less control.

I know many people find parenting very fulfilling, and far be it for me to question anybody else´s choices, but given my own experience with children I´d ask a different question: why does anyone ever have sex with the intent to reproduce? Liminal

I don´t know anything about Padmasambhava in particular, but it´s comforting to me to think that emanations of spirit and divinity reach into the deepest, darkest, most unlikely places. Yes, even into The Dude. Otherwise, what is the point? Liminal

I once heard Healing Tao instructor Juan Li talk about the power of Spanish churches. According to him, many of the cathedrals were built in an alchemically potent way. You´d need to know where to stand and what to do to access the energy of the place though.

Smashing Jewish philosophy, ethics, and religious practices is pretty much par for the course among all the Jews I know, so I figure Jesus was in very good company.

I totally get why someone might be more drawn to YiGong and Sifu Jenny Lamb´s presentation than Max´s Kunlun. If you do go ahead and learn Yigong though and you find it beneficial it might be good to remember that you probably never would of heard of the teaching without Max. It was Max´s charismatic and controversial style that put the practice on the map here at Taobums. Liminal

Kunlun is Max´s version of a practice he got from Sifu Jenny Lamb called Yi Gong. They are basically the same thing, but Max adds other practices (such as Red Phoenix) to make his "system." If you buy Jenny Lamb´s self healing dvd you get the basic Yi Gong practice plus warm up exercises to do before and energy integration exercises to do after. If you decide to go with either presentation, I´d just concentrate on the practice itself. I´ve done it on and off, not for months on end, but have only had good experiences with it. There´s a lot of dramatic commentary pro and con but nothing compares with your own experience. Liminal

I´d say narrow-mindedness in general is the problem, and neither Christians nor non-Christians seem to have a monopoly.

In general, as far as Christianity goes, I´m not a fan. The thing is though, they aren´t all the same. Approaches to Christianity vary as widely as, um, approaches to Taoism. Sure, some people are simply narrow minded, but there is a thread of mystical sophistication that runs through the tradition as well and should not be discounted. Liminal

Brian, If you´d like to, I´d be interested to hear in more detail what you find objectionable about the Office of Population Affairs. My own observation is that the name has a certain chillingly ominous ring. As though they were intent on modifying how people decide or don´t decide to give birth in some malacious way. I´m not sure if that´s really the case though. I did read one of their policy guideline papers on HIV testing. They were advocating what they called opt-out testing--in other words, members of the population in question could "opt-out" of being tested but if they choose not to the test was automatic. If you believe that it´s in everybodies interest to know their HIV status then the policy makes a certain sense but it does seem a little nefariously manipulative. I would prefer to receive all medical tests and treatment on an opt-in basis. Liminal

I believe there was a comment about bland diets by Kevin Wallbridge (sorry if I´ve got your handle wrong) over on the "What do acupuncturists think about coffee" thread in the "healthy bums" section.