liminal_luke

I think a certain amount of rapport with a therapist is essential, otherwise nothing else gets done. But it´s also true (perhaps this is what SC was getting at?) that good therapy is work and will often feel challenging. If you only want support a good friend will do; a good therapist knows how to push. Liminal

I´m glad we have free speech and don´t want to take away anyone´s right to say things that offend. I´d be even happier though to hear more compassionate speech. People have the right to do all sorts of things that are not kind, I just wish they wouldn´t. Liminal

Hi Marcus, I think the right therapist is the one you trust and feel willing to open up to. Sure, there are tons of different modalities but nothing counts more than the interpersonal connection, or lack thereof. Good luck. Liminal

I believe the sensations we experience in our bodies reflect what´s going on in our lives. We can choose to look at the meaning of these sensations through many different lenses: the lens of modern physical medicine, as emotions manifesting physically, as energy. You´re clearly experiencing something and yet "skeptical" of any of these possibilities. You´re "quite certain" it´s not an obvious physical problem, and don´t "believe" in any of the likely alternative explanations either. And yet you´re here, on Taobums, a spiritual forum where you´re likely to hear spiritual answers. So I can only guess that a part of you wants to hear an explanation that another part of you (the rational inner scientist perhaps) will likely reject as too woo-woo. Can you sense these two parts of your personality...the part that senses something emotionally/spiritually interesting and meaningful is happening to you and the part that wants to reject all such talk as hogwash? My hunch is that an inner dialogue between these two opposing aspect of yourself will yield at least part of the answer you seek. Liminal

If some guys attacked me in the street I´d do whatever I could to protect myself. Once the immediate threat was averted, I´d do whatever I could to prevent them from attacking others in the future. And then I´d let it go (or at least the best version of myself would): no indulging in fantasies of painful death and revenge, no cultivation of anger and hate. I´d fight the bastards one moment and forgive them the next; lock them up and love them forever. Liminal

I´m not personally designing political cartoons that inflame the moral indignation of people in, say, the Middle East-- but I know what it feels like not to be at peace. Over the years, I´ve been more than a little worked up about some conversations right here on Taobums. And sometimes I´ve lashed out. And I´ve read posts by others who have lashed out and got caught up in the ridiculous drama of it all. As above, so below. The larger disharmony between religious groups, is mirrored by the tensions right here on the forum, is mirrored by the tension in my jaw that I feel when I quiet down and breath. Liminal

I´m not very educated about this, but had a thought/question that might possibly pertain to the whole question of whether the Bhrahmaviharas (sp?) are only a relative practice that will take people only so far, or whether they lead all the way. It seems to me that the counterbalance to the sometimes flowery seeming (to me) practice of Metta is the Bhramavihara of equanimity. Metta feels soft to me whereas there is something metalic and hardheaded about equanimity. Equanimity is very "I´ll be me, and you be you"--the antidote for codependence. I´m wondering if there´s something alchemical that happens as practitioners wrestle with these two pulls of Metta and equanimity. Maybe something similar to the taoist process of alchemy that takes place at the intersection of yin and yang. Perhaps Metta by itself is incomplete. But doesn´t the Bhramavihara of equanimity provide the necessary balance of wisdom? Liminal

I know it isn´t very Buddhist of me, but wouldn´t it be useful for somebody like myself--not very interested in Buddhism as a path but with a desire to be a more loving person--to do Metta practice without getting into the nitty gritty Buddhist meaning of the words? Can´t I just wish myself and others happiness as I understand it at this moment--even if my understanding is naive, materialistic, and arguably mistaken--and cultivate love? Liminal

Hi Mike... Something else you might consider adding to your steak and eggs routine: grass-fed liver. Just an idea.

Just wanted to second this. For me anyway, it´s much more productive to go in than out: ground and center. Especially when I am dealing with any emotional unpleasantness. Liminal

I dunno. I think people with "no set purpose for their lives other than superficial career plans, sex life, usual family dreams etc" experience lots of heaviness. Anxiety, depression, angst, pain...these are equal opportunity problems, not at all limited to serious meditative types. Liminal

I want to echo what ThisLife said about the bouncing horse--very distracting. (Of course this is just my opinion and perhaps other people find it delightful.) If you want to be read, I suggest nixing the jumping horse, or at least making it hold still. Of course, in the encounter you mentioned I take it you weren´t actually dressed up as a pink horse. Still perhaps something of the pink horse spirit came through in the interaction. Perhaps you presented your pink jumping horse metaphorically, if not literally. How we habitually present ourselves in a forum like taobums says lots about how we are as people out in the world (generally speaking, I think people know way more about us than we imagine they do in any case). So, you know, perhaps something of the pink horse came through. Liminal

Maybe there are exceptions, but in my experience a high level teaching is just a low level teaching practiced day after day over a long, long time. Are the following activities low level or high level? Standing like a "tree" Awareness of breath. Awareness of LDT Smiling into the inner organs Liminal

I think a lot of human suffering could be avoided if we all just let go of the notion that parents and children are supposed to get along. Sure, it´s great when it happens. And certainly it´s nice to do whatever personal work we deem necessary to make things go in that direction. Still, the fact is that often times parents and children won´t get along--sometimes no matter how reasonable and responsible said children might act. When we compare our expectation of familial harmony with the holiday reality it´s easy to feel a bit bitter. Better to let go, as hard as that is, and realize that we are all imperfect people sometimes doing the best we can-- and sometimes not doing our best at all. If you feel, Rara, that you´ve been practicing and notice improvements in your life and relationships with others, then why let your mom throw you off course? You might not be able to change your mom. You might not even be able to get along with her, at least not at this moment. But you can take solace knowing you´ve done what made sense to you. Liminal

This thread brings up an all-important question: Where does your motivation for practice come from? In Taoist terms, which shen, or organ-spirit, is in charge of the cultivation schedule. Or we might ask, in a more western psychological vein, which sub-personality governs this activity. A group of students gathers to practice for one hour. One practices out of sheer joy; the practice comes naturally from the heart, and there´s nothing the student would rather be doing. Other students practice in a dry, mechanical --even robotic-- way out of a sense of obligation. Perhaps one has a parent who said she´d never amount to anything, and cultivation represents a way of proving that introjected voice wrong. Another hopes to numb out a sense of shame by cultivating super powers or extraordinary prowess in the bedroom. Yet another wants to learn to fight so he can confidently overpower another man in a street fight. Although the practice time might be the same, the fruits of cultivation for these different students will vary. The source of motivation matters every bit as much as the absolute number of hours put in. Liminal

Maybe it´s just me and my circumstances, but I think there´s a lot of social pressure to break up. If only I´d come to my senses and say that my partner wasn´t good enough for me and leave everybody would applaud the move as a mental health breakthrough. Finally I´d have vanquished my codependence --and now could I please come home and start spending time with them again like in the good old days? Liminal

My uncle worked as a physician but didn´t treat people--he was a hired gun for pesticide companies when they wanted someone with a scientific background to say their chemicals were perfectly safe. At a big family dinner to celebrate my brother´s graduation from medical school, my uncle explained that he´d just gotten back from a big conference where he spoke about how alternative medicine was so much hooey. Later my brother´s mother-in-law, who regarded me as the resident woo-woo of the family, got on my case: Why didn´t I speak up and defend natural medicine? I told her it would of been a waste of time. Here was someone who had dedicated his entire career to debunking everything I believed in. I knew it wasn´t a fight I was going to win. I also knew I was right. When discussing science, better to find people with genuinely open minds who are willing to go where the data leads. Some people--no matter how educated they may be--just aren´t worth talking to. Liminal

Trunk, The liver meridian massage idea appeals to me. Do you recommend starting at the big toe and working up, or the other way around? Does it matter? Thanks. Liminal

Mileage in all of these Taoist practices is notoriously variable, but I, for one, would not be too quick to dismiss the "Primordial Qigong" form. I did it today, and, I´ll be honest, I didn´t feel that much. But when I´ve practiced daily over time the benefits sneak up on me. Liminal

I say don´t bother with giving up on life at all. Don´t use any kind of philosophy, even a nifty sounding Taoist one, to justify collapsing into a depressive funk. There might be a time for quietly sitting by the rinverbank, accepting that everything is perfect just as it is, feeling your ego dissolve into the non-dual nature of ultimate reality. Blah, blah, blah. Now is not that time. Now is the time to take action in the world. Find your passion. Work to acomplish your dreams. Socialize. Study. Eat good food you make yourself. Move. Do some chi gung or practice a martial art. For now, the riverbank can wait. Liminal

Throwing out some thoughts based on previous posts... Taoist anger gets the job done. The mighty Hun expanding up and out to meet life´s challenges when they are called on to do so. Un-taoist anger sits around in the body where it stagnates into depression or heart disease, or else loses it´s connection to essential meaning and purpose and spins out of control. Liminal

I recently started experimenting with the EMWave for heart rate variability biofeedback. Too early yet to have a really informed opinion about it, but it seems interesting. Liminal

This is a complicated and rather treacherous topic. Yes, "vibration" effects health. And yet it does not follow that everyone who gets sick has a low vibration. A friend of mine had cancer and it turns out that well-meaning inquiries into why she would choose to manifest the illness got a little old. Bad things happen to high vibration people all the time. Liminal

At the moment, I like the word "Jose"-- but that´s probably just me. Liminal

It´s easier for me to think about this question backwards: what conditions give rise to unvirtuous actions and unvirtuous ways of being in the world? For me, it´s any kind of internal disharmony or fragmentation. say between out of synch subpersonalities, that automatically gets projected out into the world where it mucks up interpersonal relationships. Everybody knows "as above, so below." Well, when it´s comes to virtue, we´ve got "as inside, so outside." Take passive aggressiveness, for example. This pattern of unvirtue derives from a lack of internal congruence. You´ve got your underlying aggressive aspect fighting with a mealy-mouthed people pleasing aspect and that all gets played out in relationships in oppressively confusing ways. Really though, any kind of internal unrest reflects back as external unrest, ie unvirtuous action. So the question for those who would cultivate virtue is really, "how do I get all my parts to get along with each other?" The first step is to become aware of said parts. When one aspect of yourself goes rogue and hops out of range of consciousness trouble is surely right around the corner. A practice that makes us emotionally aware of more of ourselves is thus conducive to virtue. So even something so simple as breathing where we´re sending our breath--and thus our consciousness--into little explored nooks and crannies of the body increases awareness. It´s like having an internal family meeting. All practices that are centering or involve the "central chanel" increase virtue. The same gunk that gets in the way of centeredness gets in the way of virtue, so it´s almost impossible to clear a free path into the very center of your being without becoming virtuous at the same time. Liminal