liminal_luke

Just like to echo the thoughts on holding a high intention. I find that with Kunlun in particular the practice really responds to my intention. It´s very practical and obvious. When I hold a high intention the energy changes. This is one of those things that isn´t really spelled out, in my experience anyway, but makes a huge, huge difference.

Gosh, looks like I´m not going to get lots of testimonials from long-term Kunlun practitioners. One possibility, of course, is that they don´t exist. Another is that the practice itself has molded them into very self-contained people disinclined to comment on their practice publicly unless they see a very good reason for doing so. I´m disappointed of course as I hoped to hear from them. Then again, perhaps their reticence to engage with this question is a sign of the wisdom that comes with practice. Perhaps their very silence is saying...¨you yourself will know the fruits of your own practice if you put out the effort to do it, you must answer your own question.¨ And perhaps that´s for the best.

This is very useful to me--thanks!

I really like these two assertions as kind of twin safegaurds against using the otherwise quite useful concept of kultivation in the service of kultivation itself. It would be so easy, for me anyway, to look at other supposedly less spiritually advanced taobums (kultivators), and imagine that as a true cultivator I´m somehow in another league. And yet this very process of demonizing some perceived untolerable other, holding it apart from oneself, is perhaps part and parcel of kultivation. If we are to stop kultivating, the first step is surely the willingness to look for and acknowledge our tendency to do so. I consider my own practice a mix of cultivation and kultivation. Much of what I do is in the service of integration and consciousness, but I´d be lying if I told you I don´t want to disappear, fly, and, my personal favorite, read everyone´s mind. Personally, I think all these things are possible and not bad in themselves. What gives the pursuit of them the flavor of kultivation is my motivation: the need to be better than everyone else in order not to feel less than everyone else. When I start to disappear and fly at will, I´m not going to announce my abilities in taobums. Everyone would just insist on a video, and then argue about whether or not it was faked. Who needs the hassle? I´ll feel mighty smug just the same though.

My take.... Kultivation: trying to convince oneself that one is OK (while deep down feeling anything but) through quasi-spiritual practice. Kultivators often try to obtain siddis, powers that seem superhuman. Ordinary human goodness isn´t enough to fill an inner void they can´t stand to acknowledge. I have a friend, a spiritual teacher actually, who went to a shaman who pronounced that he was from another planet. My friend was very proud of this. For all I know, it´s true--it certainly seems to fit. Nevertheless, I always tried to get him to embrace his human side. To be ok being an abnormal normal person like the rest of us. You don´t have to be an extraterrestrial to be worthy of love.

I'm interested in all things sacral and/or related to the root chakra. Could you say something more about how to do the anus breath? Thanks, Liminal

Skydog, When you say trauma release are you talking about David Bercelli's Trauma Release Exercises (TRE)? If so, I'd like to hear more about your experiences if you're willing to share. Thanks, Liminal

Everybodies different, but I say sexuality isn't only soft kisses and a gentle caress. Sometimes, male or female, we appreciate when our partners "work us good" and ask for exactly that. Sometimes to do just that is the most loving, sensitive thing we can do, all appearances to the contrary. To refuse to acknowledge this aspect of our erotic existence is to take some of the juice out of sex, and frankly, we need all the juice we can get.

Hi Tibetan, I don't know what Max would say though it makes sense to me that elongating the breath would be a good thing. If you don't get a more autoritative answer here I suggest just asking Max through his website. He's a pretty approachable, low-key guy. Liminal

Thanks Songtsan! I look forward to hearing what you have to say. Liminal

Songstan, The diet you're describing sounds very similar to "primal" eating a la Mark Sisson of Marks Daily Apple. Low carb, no sugar, no vegtable oils--Im assuming. It can be done vegetarian but generally isn't. Am I on the right track thinking this is the kind of diet you recommend? It's helped me with my own health issues as well as weight loss. Nice to see such an experienced person so willing to help. Liminal

Hi Ambitious Child, If retention is working for you right now and you feel good I personally don't see a compelling reason to stop. Therapy for "sexual addiction" often includes a period of celibacy including not masturbating. Still, I'd exercise caution and consider the pluses and negatives carefully. As I'm sure you've noticed, retention will, at least initially, make you more horny. If eventually you end up breaking your retention you might end up having sex in a way that bothers you more than if you had just masturbated once a day or every few days. Not all mental health professionals believe in the concept of "sexual addiction" per se, although there's no doubt that some people have sex in ways that are hurtful to themselves, and sometimes to others as well. If you're interested in exploring the deeper psychological roots of your sexuality and how to go about making changes (if any) I recommend the book The Erotic Mind by Jack Morin. Good luck! Liminal

In the spirit of expanding my working definition of jing gong, I'd like to list some potential jing gong areas of inquiry other than the much ballyhooed retention. If I'm in a relationship will I be monogamous? Is monogamy something I demand of my partner or am I willing to do it unilaterally? If I'm not in a relationship under what conditions will I have sex with someone else? Is it ok for me to look at porn? Will I consciously flirt, cruise, or send sexual vibes to others? How do I get non-sexual touch in my life? Am I getting enough? Do I hug, cuddle, get massage? How is my level and type of physical activity effecting my eroticism? Do I exercise and move enough, too much? How is my diet effecting my eroticism? Am I eating in a way that makes me feel sexually vital? Am I caring for my physical appearance in a way that is in-line with my values? What do I do to look good, or is it important to me to look good? How does my caring for my appearance bear on my sexuality? How am I caring for my health generally, and what effect does this have on me sexually? Do I take chinese tonic herbs to build jing? Do I do chi gung specifically aimed to nourish my kidneys, and sexual energy? Is my whole body alive with sexual energy, or am I narrowly focused on my genitals? Do I make room for the erotic potential of the anus and prostrate? Touch? Massage? Aneros? Is my sexual life varied and creative? Do I feel comfortable talking about sexual fantasy with my partner? Would I like to expand my sexual repetoire? What role does masturbation play in my life? Am I comfortable with frequency? Is it a quick let's-get-this-done thing or do I take my time? Am I more focused on bodily sensation or a fantasy in my head? ................................................. Any comments on this list? What would you add?

Thanks for your response Trunk. I think sex is about so much more than sex as popuarly imagined. Our desires, or lack thereof, are entangled very deeply with who we are and how we feel about ourselves. Or at least that's how it is for me. And the desire to restrict ourselves sexually, as in jing retention, is likewise a very deep thing and potentially has to do with so much more than the conscious desire for spiritual progress. I agree that taking a step back and seeing the bigger picture of jing gong, rather than focusing narrowly on semen retention and what "day" I'm on, makes sense.

Trunk, I appreciate your cautious approach to this subject, and your concern for the health and wellbeing of your fellow taobums. Many male bums, myself included, are very intrigued by the idea that it's possible to advance in spiritual practice through jing retension. It's long been a goal of mine although I've never been successful enough to experience failing health. Emotionally though I think my cycle does take it's toll. Meditation and spiritual growth is important to me, and it irks me that I seem unable to retain my jing for any significant period of time. Perhaps my inability thus far is itself a sign that I'm not ready for what you call advanced jing gong? The whole topic reminds me of a study I read about recently in which scientists concluded that it's impossible for obese people to lose weight, and they'd be better off not trying. I'm not sure I buy that. There's so much evidence that being really overweight is unhealthy, you can't blame people for not giving up fighting the fat. Still, it's mighty demoralizing trying diet after diet and being successful for awhile only to gain the weight back in the end. Anyway, I tell this story because it illustrates what happens to me. I've got years of sex dieting under my belt, and always seem to put back on the pounds--go back to day 0. I'd love to hear more specifically what, in your view, the reasonable prerequisites to retention are. What questions should a bum ask himself to determine if retention makes sense in his particular case? What practices might a bum do to prevent stagnant heat if he does decide to try retention? Thanks, Liminal

Deci Belle, It's a little off topic, but this statement of yours confuses me and makes me think I don't understand the nature of spiritual attainment and enlightenment. In your profile statement you say..."Having gone all the way myself I only point at the source of impersonal awareness." Also, "If there is anything you consider not yourself it is obvious you do not see the empty kalpa." I find your writing very interesting, although I confess I don't always understand you. Anyway, here's what I don't get: how can somebody whose "gone all the way" say something to Taomeow so obviously snide and ego-driven? Do you see Taomeow as being yourself? If so, it begs an important question: is it possible to come from an enlightened perspective and be self-hating at the same time? As someone whose interested in developing spiritually and hoping that my efforts will eradicate my own not so insubstantial self-hating tendencies, I find the question quite personally relevant. Let's suppose that Taomeow had said something offensive to you--wouldn't the kind of high spiritual attainment you speak of make someone less reactive, more able to raise above it and just let go? Or is that not how it works? Ok, enough of that. Back to the topic--thanks for your service Taomeow and welcome back to "civilian" life.

Hi Perceiver, I'm no expert on managing kundalini so salt well and all that....but it doesn't sound like the microcosmit practice is working for you. I'd shelve it for now. It could theoretically be grounding as you're moving the energy back down as well as up. My experience, however, is that I move things much more efficiently up than down so the grounding effect doesn't always happen. Perhaps this is the case for you as well; I think it is for a lot of people. I don't have personal experience with them but the KAP folks always get mentioned as people who are expert on advising about kundalini issues. If you haven't, I'd consider contacting them for been-there-done-that personal advice.

Not sure if this is what you're looking for dmattwads, but have you done Kan and Li? It creates a very harmonious energy, neither yin nor yang. With all the other work you've been doing I suspect it would be very powerful for you. It's been awhile since I practiced, but my sense is that if you're personal energies are unbalanced you could always borrow from the energies of nature to get the right mix before "cooking" the energies together...ie add in a little volcano fire or a peaceful flowing stream as needed.

Have you listened to the Adyashanti video being discussed in another thread? He talks about some of the difficulties people have after having had an awakening experience. I don't know, but it sounds to me like very much the kind of thing you are going through. Hope you feel good/better in whatever you decide to do next. Liminal

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Maybe I'll live to regret this but....bring it on! I guess the fact that it hasn't happened is a pretty good indication that I'm not ready for it to happen. Have a feeling that if I ever suceed with this jing retention stuff plus get really consistent with my practice it eventually will. Guess I'll see. Thanks everyone for sharing your experiences. Liminal

I think it's very commendable that you're looking at how this pattern might have something to do with you especially as it happens, as you say, over and over again. One possibility, of course, is that you're perceiving the teachers as bad when they really aren't. Another is that you are repeatedly attracting abusive/inattentive teachers who aren't responsive to your needs. Just because it's possible that you "attracted" the situation doesn't mean you should stay. I'm sure a lot of martial artists think it takes strength to allow oneself to be punched in the gut, and maybe it does. What takes even more strength though is standing up and saying... "no, I do not believe it's good for me to be punched in the gut, and I will no longer allow you to do so." My two cents. Liminal

Thanks Seth! I often stand to do my kunlun and find that it usually brings things up a notch. Think I will give this a try.

This long shaking sounds really intriguing Seth Anada. I've done standing shaking for a few minutes at a time as a kind of warm-up, but nothing like what you're talking about. Is the effect different than a spontaneous movement practice like kunlun? (If thats something you ever did.) And oh yeah, nice achievement Hydrogen!

It's just no damn fun, being a hun. When my plans don't work out, I can't help but pout. I haven't been kind, sure hope you don't mind. On second thought no, if you don't like it just go. It's just no damn fun, being a hun. I've had it up to here, so don't test me my dear. Can't get life to flow, and I think I might blow. I yawn and I sigh, but can't say goodbye. It's just no damn fun, being a hun. But to turn into a po? To that I'd say no. Guess I'd rather be mad, than oh so, so sad.