liminal_luke

Pythagoreanfulllotus-- Say what? You seem like a sincere guy, but I wonder what you were hoping readers--especially gay readers like me-- would get from that last posting. Did you imagine it would somehow be helpful? Perhaps I'm just not smart enough or spiritual enough or whatever but I have to admit I didn't really understand most of it. Mostly I'm left feeling beaten down. You say the original human culture and the bushmen weren't at all homosexual and the implication seems to be that therefore homosexuals are bad. Or maybe you think we were just messed up from early abuse or too much sympathetic nervous stimulation or something? Like I say, you seem sincere and certainly knowledgeable. Perhaps you're just trying to pass on information and I'm taking it all wrong. There's my feelings and there's freedom of speech, and I think most people think freedom of speech is more important than ensuring my taobums experience is an emotionally nurturing one. So I for one aren't going to try to shut you down. Let me just say though: damn this is hard. It's a weird feeling when people feel free to debate the legitamacy of something that feels so central to your very being.

Thanks Zerostao! Yeah, I was having fun and trying to be funny but when it comes down to it I don't want to hurt anybodies feelings so I thought better of it.

edited out

I think it all revolves around the question of what we mean by "personal." As far as I can tell the policy at present is that comments that might be hateful (sexist, racist, homophobic, etc) about a group are permitted, but hateful comments about an individual taobum are not. If I post a topic entitled "Why are straight men such pigs?" it would probably be permitted at least a brief life before thrown into the pit. Conversely, a topic like "why is taobums member X such a pig" would get me suspended. Moderators: do I understand this right?

Every once in awhile there's a thread that basically asks the question is it ok to be gay? Inevitably a few people come out (so to speak) and say things like (1) they can be that way if they want to but they'll never be spiritually advanced like me or, (2) they can be that they way if they want to but why do they have to be so darn in your face about it, or (3) here's a hundred scientific references why it's not ok, and so on. As a gay man, do I feel attacked? You bet I do. I don't perceive myself as having a choice about being gay anymore than I imagine heterosexual people imagine they could turn themseves gay. I'm simply attracted to who I'm attracted to. That said, if there was a little blue pill I could take to turn straight I wouldn't take it. Why should I? Being gay is part of who I am and I am doing my best to accept and integrate all my different aspects. To me, that's what spirituality is all about and I come to taobums to get tips and assistance from others who are, in one way or another, a little farther down the path than me, and to offer assistance when I can. In many ways it's more difficult to be gay than straight in our culture today just as I imagine sexism makes things harder for women sometimes and racism makes things harder for black people. But if somebody came up with a pill to magically turn black women into white men I don't think thetaobums would be clamoring for all of them to take it just because they now had a "choice." To say so would surely be hate speech. Yet nobody seems to have the same problem with people saying gay people ought to change. As hurtful as these threads can be, I do my best to take it all in stride. What else can I do? I like taobums and want to stay here. Also, I have no desire to be a moderator and think that the moderators are good people who are making the best decisions they can. We just aren't at a place as a society where homophobia is as taboo as racism or sexism yet. (To be sure there's plenty of racism and sexism afoot-- including some pretty misogynistic posts here at taobums-- but for the most part it's not so cool to be upfront about such prejudices.) I take solace in the conviction that homophobia is on it's way out. Yeah, it's taking it's own sweet time leaving but the direction of the future is clear.

This is a very common area of tension for many people, and I'd say it's a good sign you are so aware of it. I recommend anal self-massage. (If you think this sounds weird or gross, that just means you really need it. Ahum.) For tecniquies and guidance just google Chester Mainard and check out his videos. He got his start as an anal expert teaching medical students how to do prostrate exams by offering himself up as a guinea pig. Another anal resource: the book Anal Pleasure and Health by Jack Morin.

Thanks Trunk. Makes sense. I might check out KYMG sometimes. as it sounds like those tips could really inform and possibly revolutionize what I'm doing.

Very interesting about centering Trunk. The whole "enter, abide, dissolve" process you describe sounds very much like healing tao style kan and li to me. I've studied kunlun/yi gong but not KYMQ. Your experience is that KYMQ is centering in a way kunlun/yi gong isn't? Also, is it centering in a different way than healing tao kan and li? In kan and li of course there's actual manipulation of different levels of yin and yang energies, but I've always thought that if you can just BE at the center the perfect mixture is already there anyway without indulging in complicated cooking processes. Thoughts?

Personally, I prefer taobums topics more directly connected to cultivation issues but alright. I'd just like to say how the whole gay marriage debate effects me on a personal level. For four years now I've been in a gay relationship with a Mexican man. If we were a man/woman couple we'd have the option of getting married and moving to the US. Since there isn't federal gay marriage yet (state marriage doesn't count for immigration purposes) we can't. If I had my druthers, everybody would be very accepting and welcoming of all sexual orientations. That's not going to happen and that's ok. If a religion wants to define marriage as between only a man and a woman for their purposes I suppose that's their business. But marriage isn't just a cultural or a religious term; it's a legal category. As such, it's important that we all have equal rights. If a straight us citizen can marry a citizen from another country and immigrate legally to the states why can't I?

Seth... Your understanding of this process appeals to me. Could you share a little more about the nuts and bolts of how exactly it's done? I'm looking for something I could use to bring peace to my relationship. My partner has ptsd and possibly other mental difficulties. It's very hard to live with someone whose constantly depressed, anxious, thinks the police are following him around and spying on him, etc. Maybe I should just leave, and I might but I'm really willing to try anything short of that first because I really love/care for him. Of course there are many possible therapies and I've suggested many of them--psychotherapy, psychiatric intervention, TRE, zaphen, exercise, getting good sleep and nutrtition, etc. The difficulty is that he isn't much motivated to do any of this. So I end up either being willing to stand by him while he does not much to improve his situation, or end up in a power struggle with him about taking care of himself. Neither option, obviously, is very appealing or feels right. Perhaps this practice can help me see a new way through this and help us both. What do you think? Do I just think about him and the situation and repeat "I'm sorry, forgive me, I love you?" Thanks.

I think I've been looking for something like this. I'm in a relationship with someone with mental health difficulties. It's difficult because I have all sorts of ideas for things he might try to heal (meditation, art, diet, exercise, herbs, etc.) but mostly he's not interested in following my advice. Which would be ok except I have to deal with him not getting well. Of course I could leave but that's easier said than done, and I really do love him. This seems appealing because it sounds like I can influence the situation without needing him to do anything, just by working on myself. I might try it and see what happens.

I like Max's book and Jenny Lamb's dvd. You really can't go wrong. The advantage of Jenny Lamb's dvd, imho, are the practices she gives to do before and after the spontaneous movement. There's a short chi gung set to awaken the body before the yi gong/kunlun and some very effective energy smoothing/integrating movements to do afterward. Just doing the spontaneous movement is plenty of course but I find having a warm up practice before and an energy integrating practice afterwards really adds something.

If you're looking for a physically demanding, breathing-improving, spiritually-developing practice...how about SunDo?

At the risk of starting a taobums riot, I'd like to introduce bums who might not be familiar with his work to late gay male poet James Broughton. He's someone who tells us that "there is only ONE temple in the world and that is the human body", and that "the proper activity in a temple is worship. Share your holiness. Visit each other's temples." That advice may not to be to everyone's taste, I know. You might not want to visit his temple, but if you're interested in sex and spirit and love and the ways they might come together in the world--if you're interested in that, you really should read his poetry. "Everything is Song. Everything is Silence. Since it all turns out to be illusion, perfectly being what it is, having nothing to do with good or bad, you are free to die laughing" James Broughton This is it This is It and I am It and You are It and so is That and He is It and She is It and It is It and That is That O it is This and it is Thus and it is Them and it is Us and it is Now and Here It is and Here We are so This is It James Broughton Having Come This Far I've been through what my through was to be. I did what I could and couldn't. I was never sure how I would get there. I nourished an ardor for thresholds, for stepping stones and for ladders. I discovered detour and ditch. I swam in the high tides of greed. I built sandcastles to house my dreams. I survived the sunburns of love. No longer do I hunt for targets. I've climbed all the summits I need to, and I've eaten my share of lotus. Now I give praise and thanks for what could not be avoided, and for every foolhardy choice. I cherish my wounds and their cures, and the sweet enervations of bliss. My book is an open life. I wave goodbye to the absolutes, and send my regards to infinity. I'd rather be blithe than correct. Until something transcendent turns up I splash in my poetry puddle and try to keep God amused." James Broughton

Thanks oildrops. Glad you like his poetry. If you google his name you'll find several sites with more poems and other information.

Exactly! We don't think of our own bodies as temples. We don't think of other people's bodies as temples. We don't think of the earth as a temple. And we don't, therefore, touch ourselves, each other, or the earth in a sacred way. And it's a darn shame.

It would be nice if there were abundant clinical trails for all the complementary therapies out there, but even if they were it wouldn't prove much. We're brainwashed into believing that if someone out there does a double-blind study that concludes that X is the case, well then, that's it. Seems so simple until you read somebody else's double blind study that comes to the exact opposite conclusion. Don't believe me? Try figuring out from the scientific literature the healthiest way to eat--low fat, low carb, vegetarian? There's tons of published studies and still plenty of room for intelligent people to differ.

Thanks for the thought provoking responses K, Taomeow. For me, the above quote goes to the heart of the trickiness you mentioned Taomeow. A similar thing happened to me with practice of the inner smile. Smiling to my liver for instance, I'd eventually arrive at a happy place, but first I'd become uncomfortably aware of all the ways my liver wasn't so happy. I'd feel tightness physically, and all sorts of decidedly unpositive emotions--anger, sadness, etc. The smile wasn't covering over anything. It was illuminating my discontent. If I stuck with it long enough I could get to a happy place but it was by going through my pain, not avoiding it.

Where do practices such as the healing tao's inner smile, and kaps secret smile fit in with positive thinking--authentic spiritual practice or just more CIA inspired misdirection of the meditating masses? What about laughing yoga, and gratitude journaling? I find these kind of practices feel good, and I think there's great value in feeling good. Perhaps some people really are smiling fools, cultivating their own bliss while ignoring the very real problems in society. I don't think that's what generally happens though, quite the opposite. In my experience the happier I am the more present I am to be of service to other people. I'm not much good to anyone depressed.

bump.... Sean, others....anybody gotten Julie Henderson's book Embodying Well-being or The Hum Book? I'm thinking about getting them and wondering about other peoples experiences. Thanks!

I know Michael Winn of healing tao usa conducts taoist oriented trips to china every year. Not sure if he'd share his info or not but you might contact him and ask. Bet he could suggest a more authentic experience.

Hi Lindelani Mnisi, So sorry to hear this is happening to you. The same thing happened to me a long time ago in school and it was very painful for me, not so much physically but emotionally. I hated to fight but eventually I did. Even got a reputation as a fighter. One time this kid started to pick on me and his friend stopped him by telling him that I would fight. I couldn't believe it! Here I was this scared kid who hated fighting so much I'd cry just thinking about it, and these kids were scared of the trouble they'd get in with me. Go figure. I can't tell you whether or not to actually fight yourself, but I can tell you that you absolutely have the right not to be hurt and should do what you need to do to be safe. If that's fight back in self defense than that is certainly your right. If that's talk to the authorities about what's happening, be they people at school or police, then that might be a good plan too. The point is to take the steps you need to to make sure you are not hurt in any way. You are a person, and like all people, you deserve a life free of this kind of violence. Whatever else you do, I'd also make sure to talk to the people in your life who will support you. Friends, family, a teacher, a counselor...whoever...Perhaps you are a stronger person than I was, but I know how difficult being picked on at school can be. Find the people who are on your side and don't hesitate to lean on them when you need to.

Have you looked into Chi Nei Tsang? It is a form of massage that specifically focuses on the abdomen. You could get a session if there are any practitioners in your area and they should be able to give you homework--exercises to continue the releasing process on your own. You might also check out a book, I think its called "Unwinding the Belly," for a similar abdominal massage routine you could do for yourself daily.