liminal_luke

I don't think it's useful for most to know much about or focus on the "classical descriptions of accomplishment" you mention. Do I want to achieve the rainbow body? Sure, why not. It sounds fantastic but though I might read and understand a definition of that term I have no real idea of what achieving the rainbow body might mean on a somatic, emotional, energetic, spiritual or any other level. I'm too far away from rainbow body-ship to grok what it is in a meaningful way. So, for me, saying I want to achieve a rainbow body would just be an ego thing. Ironically, if anything that intention is leading me away from the actual accomplishment. I'm not alone in this. Out of the hundreds (thousands?) of people who have ever been Bums I'm guessing that only one or two of us are sufficiently advanced to have a visceral idea of what achieving the rainbow body might mean. If you're in that rarefied group you know it and good for you. Otherwise I believe it's better to focus on lower but more attainable goals -- good health, kindness, happiness, being a good person in the world.

Not all materialists are cut from the same material. One can believe that there is no consciousness apart from matter but what is matter? Some say matter is a physical substance we can see and touch; others, in line with recent theories in the field of physics, posit that matter is the ultimate mystery -- largely empty, both here and there, ultimately unknowable, riddled with paradox. I believe that all practice cultivates both mind and body because everything is body or, take your pick, everything is mind. The chocolate is hopelessly mixed up with the peanut butter and ain't nobody pulling them apart now.

Perhaps I've spent too much time looking at crystals in New Age bookstores and burning Nag Champa, but are the body and the mind really separate at all? I believe thoughts are things, actual physical bodily things. I've read that clinical depression is associated with measurable shifts in neuroanatomy. Our lab tools may not quite be up to the challenge of detecting the physical changes in the brain when we think stuff, but, if we're not there yet, we'll get there. Likewise, there's no bodily change that does not provoke a corresponding shift in what we call our minds. Journaling has been shown to benefit quality of life for people living with rheumatoid arthritis. The much-maligned practice of "mindfulness" is widely held to decrease stress -- and all the physiological correlates of stress. Plain old exercise routinely cheers Jane Fonda aerobics devotees. Yoga and qigong are also potent mind medicine. Change the body, change the mind.

Some years back my partner was working with a psychologist on some anxiety issues. The therapist asked him to imagine a place where he felt safe. She thought that he would pick a meadow ablaze with spring wildflowers or a deserted beach but instead his "safe space" was the local mall. For some people, the quiet and solitude that can be found in nature can feel disquieting. I believe in the healing power of nature but I get it -- not everyone is ready to go all Thoreau and stay in a forest cabin. If, like me, you're not ready to be airlifted into the arctic tundra, perhaps start with a house plant?

Am I the only one who thinks this forum can be intimidating? There are so many accomplished people here and it's hard not to do the social comparison thing and end up feeling like my own meager abilities don't stack up. Still, I'm pretty sure that if news of my passing ever reaches these pages nobody will mistake my demise for a "disguised recruiting ploy." I must be doing something right. Thanks to the OP for alerting us to the dangers of this lineage. For what it's worth, in my mind there is no higher spiritual calling than to be a simple leaf.

What does "best for emotions" mean? With most forms of spiritual practice I find that I become more aware of unpleasant emotions -- sadness, anger, shame, etc. This isn't an easy experience but if I can allow myself to be with these feelings I often end up coming out the other side, sometimes ending up with feelings of ease and even joy. I personally value the "getting to know myself better" aspects of my practice. Mostly. At least in theory. Sometimes the emotions my practice elicits are overwhelming and I end up stopping. It's very hard to release an energetic block without becoming aware of the energetic block first, and awareness can be painful. Different people are ready for different things at different times in their lives.

I miss the old days when the boards were aflame with Kunlun threads and it seemed like everyone was flying off to seminars and/or fighting off huge reptiles. That was fun.

According to her website Jenny is retired. As far as I know Max is still doing his thing though you're right, we don't hear much about him anymore. Max is indeed a "curious fellow" -- one of the more understated comments you've made on the board lately.

Awaken's spontaneous practice sounds very similar to me to Jenny Lamb's Yi Gong (the original version of Kunlun). If I'm understanding correctly, both teachers emphasize awareness and total spontaneity -- no autosuggestions. I think it's difficult to practice in a totally spontaneous manner, easy to trick oneself into thinking a practice is spontaneous when it really isn't. For instance, in my own "spontaneous" practice I have certain habits of movement and I wonder if I'm falling into the groove of doing what I've done in the past rather than being truly spontaneous. Also, I tend to value certain experiences over others. I think my practice is better, for instance, if there's lots of movement versus stillness. This prejudice can lead me away from spontaneity. Another bugaboo is goals. Sometimes I set up an intention for my practice -- for instance, that it helps me with my health. I suspect Jenny Lamb would say not to do this. I will try to be less contrived in my future practice. Easy to say, somewhat harder to do.

I've never been to Sean's for dinner but I suspect he's more Captain Ahab than James Beard. Fortunately, the mod team is well situated with folks who know their way around a frying pan.

My "translation" of the DDJ above was meant as a joke. If somebody feels the need for another forum on Reddit or anywhere else, well, that could be a very good thing. I hope it thrives. But I think you're mistaken when you say that the "other side has no way to express it's own interpretation." Yes it's true that at one point Sean told right wing members of the board to go. That was then, this is now. I suspect that in practice -- if not theory -- right wing members would find this a hospitable place to say what's on their mind (so long as they did so in a respectful, civil manner). While I consider myself mostly a leftie, I've also expressed views which don't accord with the prevailing progressive stance. Who knows, perhaps my future here has been a hot topic among the moderators? In any case my views have not gotten me kicked off the board, much to the chagrin of at least one board member I'm sure. There might be more room for debate here than you think.

The Dao De Jing -- A New Translation Chapter One: The Dao that can be spoken is not the real Dao. Chapter Two: No more right wing bullshit. The End

This happens to me all the time too but I consider it a benefit. (Admittedly, not my favorite benefit.)

I'm not so sure this is true, or that it's as true as it once was. Personally, I hope the forum remains a place where a wide variety of folks feel comfortable expressing themselves. For this reason, I'm OK with the mods stamping out, for instance, white supremacist screeds. But in practice I suspect that most bullshit -- even from conservative cows -- would pass muster.

I would hope that Original Dao members would give this forum a second chance. Very occasionally someone will say something deemed by some to be beyond the pale but there seems to be more wiggle room these days.

"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean -- neither more nor less." "The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many different things." "The question is," said Humpty Dumpty, "which is to be master - - that's all." -- Lewis Carroll The best words, in my opinion, have multiple meanings. The context determines the main meaning but the alternative definitions tag along adding what my friend Greg refers to as "texture and color." It's not just any weapon, but a weapon with some of the qualities of a diamond. Take your pick -- precious, beautiful, reflective, indestructible, eternal.

A semiautomatic is a woman's best friend.

I think everybody is on "the path" just by virtue of being alive. Some people give their path a name like "Buddhism" or "Yoga." Others are more understated, sometimes because they don't think of themselves as spiritual (even though they are!), sometimes simply because they prefer privacy. Often there's little correlation between how spiritual a person professes to be and their actual level of spirituality (assuming such a thing can be measured). You might initially feel delighted with a partner who holds certain beliefs and spends time going to retreats or sangha potlucks, only to find out later that his spiritual life isn't all that. Conversely, another potential partner may recoil at the thought of setting foot in an esoteric bookstore, yet live a life of kindness and service. While it's useful to think about the characteristics we want and don't want in a partner, sometimes ya gotta put down the checklist and simply sense into what it's like to be across the table from your date.

I'm certain that hardcore energetic training can result in observable physiological changes but, for most of us, I think it's a mistake to prematurely focus on shifts in the shape of one's skull or drying wet sheets with one's hot body in the Tibetan outback. Generally speaking, we're not there yet. While it's nice to know that grand transformations are possible, their pursuit can be a distraction from the next important spiritual step. Does my practice help me unwind a little bit of my narcissism and self-focus? Does it help me become a kinder person in the world?

Leaving sex to the feminists is like letting your dog vacation at the taxidermist. - Camille Paglia

I'm not a practitioner of Bon like Steve but I have attended a few online Bon workshops where students interacted in forums. The level of support and kindness the students showed one another was different then I've seen elsewhere. To me this speaks to the effectiveness of the practice.

That was fast. From "doesn't have that special something characteristic of awakened teachers" to "not a sexual offender" in the space of three posts. May I never become a famous meditation teacher on the internet.

Yes! Consciously visualizing something -- creating the feeling of it with one's mind -- is a prepatory beginner's practice in my opinion but can lead to the "real thing." You start out visualizing a taiji ball and before long you've got a real taiji ball, not an imaginary one at all. I think it's a mistake to posit a hard dichotomy between real and imagined. While they are not the same, the one often leads to the other. Once the "real" phenomenon emerges the training wheels of imagination can be dropped. I reserve the right to change my mind upon further practice and exploration, but this has been my experience thus far.

Wow -- what a vote of confidence. You mentioned earlier that your teacher once brought up the possibility that Trump could be a bodhisattva. If so, he's clearly chosen a "crazy wisdom" route. I suspect this whole business of levels looks very different before and after awakening/enlightenment. For most of us, there's probably not much point casting aspersions on the spiritual accomplishments of others, diverting though such speculation may be. In any case, thanks for lifting me up.

On the off chance my impressions are not entirely personal bias, I'll share some thoughts. Damo and Adam clearly know their stuff. It's exceedingly unlikely that I'll ever come close to matching their level or understanding. I'm confident that their hearts are basically in the right place and many students benefit from their teachings. And yet...and yet...something holds me back from studying with either one. Call it intuition (or bad karma) but they are not my teachers. Your mileage will almost certainly vary.