liminal_luke

Whether a given statement is cruel or compassionate depends a great deal on interpersonal context. Suppose a mother lost her son in a drive by shooting. In almost all cases telling such a mother that her suffering is optional would be cruel. But there are a few mothers for whom that statement would be a healing balm. How the words are heard depends entirely on the mother.

I'll share something I've been going through lately that your words somehow touch upon. I haven't seen my mom for several years now because of the pandemic. She's been hesitant to see me because she's worried that I might infect her and her older partner, particularly because I'm unvaccinated. We talked and I think we are going to see each other this summer but I'll stay at a hotel rather than at her house, meet up mostly outside, wear masks, and forego hugging. And I get it, I do. The last thing I want to do is give her or her partner Covid. But meanwhile my brother and his vaccinated family are seeing her regularly, going maskless, and hugging. Is there scientific justification for my mom to treat me and my brother differently? Intelligent people can probably disagree on this point but I'll admit that my proverbial panties are somewhat twisted. I tell my partner all the time that my mom doesn't love me, even though, deep down, I know this is a lie. But the lizard brain part of me somehow believes this. Anyway, here's the point. What if I'm not a victim? What if the universe and I are dancing a perfect dance and this situation is precisely what I need to take the next step towards being the person I want to be? Seeing it this way takes the sting out.

When most people imagine siddhis they think of levitation or time travel or walking through walls. But the ability to remain calm and unprovoked in circumstances that would incite most to violence? I think that's where the real juice is.

Is nondual awakening a cure-all for every physical ailment? Obviously not. Awakened people still get sick and die, at least as far as I know. But it's inconceivable to me that awakening has no effect on physical health because mental and physical health are intertwined, inseparable even. Changing perspective is no small feat and often has a huge impact on measurable health outcomes. You mentioned than awakening might reduce depression. Well, depression is statistically linked with heart disease: less depression, less heart disease. Makes sense, no? As far as other non-health related abilities go, I'm not sure I'll be able to present an argument you'd find convincing. Let's just say I wouldn't want to meet up with Dwai in a dark back alley.

You make it sound so appealing -- I just might try it!

Not having experienced nondual awakening, it's possible that I'm not the best person to speak to this question but this is the Bums and I love to speculate. I'm guessing that a great deal can change when the nondual perspective is stabilized: shifted perceptions leading to shifted psychology leading, at times, to shifted physiology. I'm struck, for instance, by the easy, accepting way some Bums who I believe have experienced nondual awakening have dealt with challenges in their lives (memory loss, chronic pain).

I'm wondering about this seeming dichotomy between subtle body work (and not so subtle body work) and nondual realization. Doesn't the one support the other? Although the nondual view is likely available to all, perhaps especially to those on their deathbeds, I believe good health -- in all of our various bodies, physical and otherwise -- can set the stage. In this sense, all the things we might do to open our meridians, purify our physical selves, and lessen emotional reactivity might be seen as stepping stones to awakening. Conversely, nondual awakening can, at least on occasion, bring with it physical and subtle body health and new abilities. Some of us value (non)accomplishments in absolute reality, while others prefer to go after real (but illusory?) accomplishments in the relative world. Still, the chocolate has long been mixed with the peanut butter and anybody who eats enough is likely to get a bit of both.

Manitou writes the best manifestos -- even if she is Trump.

I love the traditionalists and the innovators, the die-hards and the dabblers. How wonderful that there are Mexican people making mole just like their grandmother's taught them, and Finnish people experimenting with Japanese-Mexican fusion. Well I can't be sure about that last claim, but if there is such a Finnish person I definitely want to eat at her restaurant. In my own spiritual practice, I've tended towards something more akin to Japanese-Mexican fusion. Don't judge. We all find our way, eventually.

You're right, of course. I opted out as well --- or, to be more exact, that feature was never offered to me. Whatever the merits or demerits of his system, I always thought Jeff treated me with kindness and respect.

I also tried Jeff's system but prefer brunettes.

Speaking as an unawakened one -- I'm guessing that nondualism isn't what "dualists" think it is. For my part, I'm content to keep doing what I'm doing with the thought that maybe someday all this will click for me. Or not. Part of what makes this a difficult subject is that most of us want to be seen as competent and capable, spiritually and otherwise. It's hard not to feel like those who "get it" are some how superior or see themselves as superior. Perhaps they truly don't feel that way? I look forward to the day when I'm (relatively) free of attachments. What a relief it might be to emerge from the thicket of social comparison and just be.

Almost a week later, I find my mind going back to this sentence. It's beautiful to think that it might be OK to be smug. Not that smugness is necessarily good or anything, not that it's a quality to be cultivated, but that I can accept my smugness and go on to live another day. Such a rare blessing.

Or, as some here might put it, never underestimate Steve on the Internet.

Is there such a thing as a fundamentalist nondualist? In theory, probably. In practice, I'm guessing not (though I'm willing to be corrected if any practicing nondualist fundamentalists wish to identify themselves).

...

I think we need a new pronoun for awakened people. How do you refer to someone whose Self is as big as the universe and smaller than a grain of sand? He/She and even the ever-controversial They don't cut it for the Pleasant Experiences of the world. May I suggest Wow. Used in a sentence.... Has anybody seen Wow around?

I like Steve's latest avatar -- that beautiful flurescent blue! I hope it doesn't change but only fools get attached to the avatars of nondualists.

As a kid I'd try to catch the bullfrogs that sunned themselves on the side of our family pond. These days I don't have access to a pond or bullfrogs so I try to grasp nondual experiences instead. Squirmy little buggers. I haven't caught any yet but, like the stubborn dualist that I am, I won't give up.

Decades ago, while on a long pilgrimage walk, I felt like someone else was looking out through my eyes. Well, not someone else really. The person looking out was still me but not me as I usually experienced myself. It didn't feel like possession or anything creepy like that. It felt good, like a deeper version of the usual me was peering out from within my body. I'm not sure my experience has anything to do with the topic of this thread but on the off chance it does, I thought I'd throw it out.

Einstein was only three but already his mother knew he''d grow up to be a math genius. The only vegetables he liked were stubby carrots and other square roots. What is the best way to get ahold of Mr. Fibonacci? Call him. (011) 235-8132

Like many others, I also find awaken's posts difficult to understand, even cryptic. My sense is that if one really wants to know what she's talking about the only real way is to train with her. Or not. There's not much use arguing on the internet about such things. I'm curious but disqualified at the moment as I'm not ready to let go of the other practices I do.

Nondual awakening is a little like winning the lottery. They're both unlikely events whose ramifications are best pondered after the fact. Everybody has an opinion but few of us really know whether either scenario leads to happiness or moral behavior. I suspect most Bums would prefer nondual awakening but if you win the lottery nobody will come up to you and say you were always rich and just didn't know it. That's gotta count for something.