liminal_luke

I´m intrigued by the shadow work of Phil Stutz. Shadow Work — THE TOOLS (thetoolsbook.com)

Good points, both. My opinion about good spiritual practices being boring was more of an intuitive hunch than something I had a well thought out basis for, so when apech asked me why I was a bit stymied. Didn´t stop me from reverse engineering an answer though! Clearly there are lots of non-boring moments on the spiritual path. I do think that boredom is an underappreciated state of mind that can be productively embraced rather than turned away from.

@Apech Why are the best spiritual practices boring? Hmmm...maybe it´s not so much that the best spiritual practices are boring, but rather that people shouldn´t be advised to stop a particular practice because of boredom. Spiritual practice can certainly have great peak moments, so it´s not as if it´s all a misery. Perhaps spiritual cultivation is analogous to journeying through all the layers of the earth´s crust to the very center. Being at the center isn´t necessarily boring -- it can feel great or super scary or just peaceful -- but to get there one has to go through a huge layer of boredom right underneath the surface. The surface of the earth is where all the Netflix programming is -- very entertaining but if you want to get to the center ya gotta go through the boredom. Sitting in silence isn´t boring if you are in the quiet center of your mind. But if you are a newbie somewhere between that center and Netflix-land, then yeah, you might be bored. Doesn´t mean that sitting in silence isn´t a good thing to do.

If all your political opinions line up squarely with the position statement of one political party or candidate, you´re not thinking independently enough. A more economical way to give dishes the umami kick of anchovies is to use fermented shrimp paste. In the present cultural climate, with it´s overemphasis on being "self-made," to call someone priveledged is a slur. I don´t believe in hierarchies of suffering. We all come into the present moment with complex histories, intricate webs of advantages and disadvantages in life. It´s impossible to say that one person is priveledged based solely on the groups they belong to. Most people will not be harmed by mixing and matching qigong practices. The best spiritual practices are boring. It´s a courtesy not to engage servers in conversation so that they can do their jobs rather than chitchat with the hopes of getting better tips.

I Will Survive: the anthem of Taoist would-be immortals everywhere.

In my (extensive!) experience, big gay discos are not often attended by nondualists or their detractors. I would love to go to a big gay disco with a Buddhist section, lots of sweaty queer mystics reclining on orange throw cushions, reciting mantras between sips of cheap well drinks and flirting in Pali.

I´m not Christian, kyoji, and don´t believe the Bible is the word of God. Does the Bible contain mystical wisdom? I´m guessing that it does although I haven´t studied it in any kind of in-depth way. I do believe there´s great value in humor and that, in general, we´d make more serious progress in life if we didn´t take ourselves and our pet issues so seriously. Still, I didn´t mean to offend. My apologies.

Guilty as charged. Let he who is without sin throw the first stone.

That would suck. Makes it hard to find work as a carpenter. Then again, I imagine that many people who come back from the dead are looking to start a second career anyway.

In both Judaism and Buddhism there are paths running up mountains. Whether or not these practice paths are ultimately ascending the same or different mountains is an open question.

Do tell! Anywhere you particularly recommend?

Any tips for where to go these days when you want to expand your knowledge?

I think of Jewish observance -- praying, studying Torah, keeping Shabbat, etc -- as practices meant to cultivate a person spiritually in a way that´s analogous to meditation in Buddhism. Whether or not they actually work to that effect in the average case is an open question. Certainly you are not the first Jewish person to find a spiritual home in an Asian tradition. They don´t call us "wandering Jews" for nothin´.

I love Joni Mitchell´s music but don´t always agree with her about social issues. I just wish she would make more of an effort to see things from both sides now. Ditto for Neil Young. I´m still searching for a heart of gold.

You said that you despised these people and that they were evil. To me that felt like a very strong opinion and part of me hoped to encourage a little more empathy towards what I saw as a very human failing on their part. Sorry if I overstepped. Mostly though, I was just using this discusssion as a springboard to consider my own thoughts. I agree with you that much of what is human is also monstrous.

Mark, I sometimes find your posts fascinating and, also, a little bit beyond me. This is one of those posts. I´m having trouble connecting how your thoughts connect to the quotation of mine you posted. You can explain if you like -- or not! Someday maybe I´ll get it.

You make a wonderful point, surrogate corpse, about asking for the whole world, in all of it´s complexity. I´m not saying you´re wrong. I would only say that asking for less isn´t so much monstrous as human.

As human beings, we find ourselves at a difficult moment. Fearing that the apocalypse is nigh, many young people choose not to have babies or, in many cases, have sex at all. Why bring another life into a world of pandemics, war, and imminent environmental collapse? Why foist unnecessary suffering on a future generation? Too many of us are anxious and lonely and sad. In part, I think our present malaise is due to the breakdown of social norms. Many of the things I hate -- compulsory church attendence, heteronormativity, Superbowl Sunday -- nevertheless contribute to a certain kind of cohesion that binds people together in community. Consider gay marriage. I´m gay and love the fact that I can now marry my partner. Gay marriage: love it! But I can´t pretend that this kind of progress comes without a price; life was simpler when we could all just assume that woman and men married and any other kind of relationship was a freakish aberration. The same is true for trans rights. Life is simpler when we can assume that people born with penises are male, period. Don´t get me wrong. I´m glad that we live in a world with gay marriage, in a world where trans people can increasingly be their authentic selves without judgement. Still, we pay a price. These social advances have given us both freedom and anxiety; not one or the other, but both. For this reason, I have empathy for the rigid, controlling people who think I should watch football, drink beer, and get a girlfriend. They instinctively know we are tied together in an energetic web and the choices I make effect the world they live in. My choice to be a freak makes their world just a little more freakish. I recently read a restaurant dresscode policy that beautifully made the point: how one patron chooses to dress effects the experience of other patrons. Outrage is not a nuanced position. Outrage is born of the lie that says my way of seeing something is all good and the viewpoint of those who oppose me all bad. I believe there´s a place for outrage -- I´m glad it´s in my emotional toolbox -- but I wouldn´t want to get stuck there. Outrage is it´s own kind of rigidity, a defensive bulwark against ambiguity. On the flip side of the false fire of angry self-assurance one often finds fear.

I have a long way to go towards mastering my fear, so I hope what I´m about to say doesn´t come off as insufferably holier-than-thou. You may find, as you deepen mastery of your own fear, that your stance towards those "evil" respectability gays begins to soften.

No one can say your writing lacks clarity!

Some would say that it´s the freak brethren that are throwing the movement to the wolves. Personally, I favor widening our tolerance toward both extremes of the movement. Neither the freaks nor those who seek respectability are imposters. We can have empathy for both groups, however divergent their values.

The dilemma I think you´re pointing at has a long history. Take gay pride parades. For many, the event is an invitation to bring their most outlandish selves to the public square. Socially conservative gays of an assimilationist bent are routinely horrified. Many feel that the costuming, semi-nudity, and general flouting of societal norms sets the movement back. Personally, I love myself some costuming and semi-nudity, but I understand why others object. Maybe it wouldn´t be so bad if we left the dog collars at home. If we´re gonna take a big-tent approach, shouldn´t those who value "respectability" be included too? I suspect that I´m an imposter myself, which is ironic because, ya know, I´m pretty gay.

The other thing I don´t get acronym-wise is the word "queer." What does it mean? Maybe it´s a special category for lesbians with pink hair or newly minted gay boys with nose rings. I haven´t been able to figure it out except to say, whatever it is, it´s not me. People make fun of our ever-expanding acronym and with good reason: if everybody who feels a little different is included then the acronym means nothing at all; if everybody is included then nobody is included. Another question -- what´s the plus sign at the end for? I´m guessing it´s a way of saying "hey guys, we´re not done here yet...these are all the letters we can think of so far but there will be others coming down later so, ya know, plus." It´s beyond ridiculous.

What´s been interesting to me is to experience how actual transgendered people, at least here on the forum, are different from the sense of transgendered people I´ve picked up from reading about the issue or the cultural zeitgeist. In my mind there´s a lot of fear about this topic. There´s a sense that if a person doesn´t get it "right" -- whatever that is -- then someone is gonna wanna lop your head off. I suspect there are Bums who aren´t participating in this thread because they think their opinions would not be welcomed. My experience has been that there´s more openness here to a variety of viewpoints than I would have predicted.

For what it´s worth, I think it´s reassuring that not all trans people think alike, even concerning trans issues.