liminal_luke

Lots of virile young straight men aren´t getting sex? Good thing I´m an aspiring Daoist and belong to this forum or I would never have heard of the "incel movement." And here I thought gay men had problems!

Jeff may have good and pure intentions. I can´t say for certain, though some of the things posted certainly look bad for him. Who knows, maybe some people benefited from their interaction with the busty blonde? One thing is for sure though: any kind of erotic encounter in a therapeutic setting, even just an energetic one, is fraught with risk. There´s a reason why therapists, for instance, are prohibited from having sex with their clients -- even if a client agrees, even if a client initiates the encounter. Jeff is certainly not the only spiritual teacher whose been on the hot seat for having sex, astral or no, with his students. It´s practically an epidemic. Is it always wrong in every circumstance? Our culture says yes. Mostly I say yes too though I have a tiny sliver of doubt. Part of me wants to believe in the possibility of sexual spiritual healing. (Guess I´m heretical like that.) But it´s risky, risky, risky. Spiritual seekers would do well to exercise extreme caution.

If this discussion is to have value for Bums considering working with Jeff, I think it would be helpful to hear first-person testimonials and reviews, positive and negative. This is obviously personal stuff so I totally get it if people decline to share for reasons of privacy and appropriate personal boundaries. Right now there´s a lot of negative innuendo and accusations but I don´t hear anybody saying...I worked with Jeff and here´s my experience. I think it would be helpful to hear from Bums who´ve worked with Jeff and found it beneficial as well as those who may have had negative experiences. In this way, someone considering getting scanned or "sharing space" or whatever will be able to make a more informed decision.

I´ve been "hugged" many a time and am no worse for wear. At least I don´t think so. (Others, ahum, may beg to differ.) Perhaps I´m just not sensitive to the deleterious effects others have experienced? In the end, I decided only to accept spiritual hugs from my partner. Casual in-person huggers are also very welcome. Part of my hesitation is that I´m quite averse to hierarchical social structures, situations where one person is assumed to be more advanced than another. Generally speaking, I´ve been in the beta position in such cases and I´m allergic to that. Not that I claim any great spiritual achievement, quite the contrary. Perhaps I should just get over myself and receive instruction and mentoring from my more advanced betters. I have accepted teachers in my life but I´m choosy. Mostly I like to learn something and then go off and practice independently. Jeff´s energetic presence may be more potent than most, but I´m not convinced it´s different in kind from the mundane vibes we send each other every day. I´m profoundly effected by the "energy" of what I read here on the board, lately mostly for the worse. We´re constantly scanning each other, usually unconsciously, and sending out waves of influence. This isn´t black magic (or white magic) -- it´s human nature. That said, I do appreciate Jeff´s courtesy in asking for permission. Even his detractors will likely agree that scanning with permission is more ethical than scanning without. .

In preparation for casual sex?

...changed my mind...

As members of this forum, almost all of us have participated in casual, albeit nonerotic, S&M.

I too have been taught that there`s a divisive (discernment) aspect to metal, as well as a contractive one. The organ associated with metal is the lungs, and the job of the lungs is to divide the oxygen from the carbon dioxide, so there`s this task of separating out what`s needed from what isn`t. Metal can also be fashioned into a sword, which cuts. The ability to discern requires awareness and sensitivity, a mirrorlike reflective quality that accurately depicts things so we know what is what. The exactness, precision of this awareness can give metal an elegant quality. Also related to divisiveness is the act of letting go, clearly the job of the large intestine, the other organ associated with metal. @Taomeow Does this accord with your understanding or are RobB and I lost in a five elements wonderland?

Didn´t know you are/were a Kunlun guy gendao. That´s great -- me too. Well, actually I haven´t practiced so much. But I´m always intending to and making little stabs at it now and then. Is Kunlun something you´re still doing? Seems like so many people do it for awhile, get something out of it, but then stop for one reason or the other. I was doing it really regularly for a spell and stopped when it started bringing up some difficult emotions. In retrospect, I wish I´d kept going, worked through whatever was coming up. Oh well, my "stuff" will still be there waiting for me when I next get to it.

That sounds like a good summation to me. If you´re interested in pursuing this I´d get a copy of Jenny´s Self-Healing dvd. Max says that his "kunlun" is different, but having practiced both I don´t see what the difference is. Perhaps the intention of practice? Personality-wise Jenny and Max have very different styles. I´m not sure if Jenny is still teaching, believe Max is.

double post

@freeform @Spotless Both of you are clearly dedicated, accomplished spiritual practitioners. That´s the way I see it anyway, even if you don´t think that way about each other. I´d feel lucky to have either of you as a teacher. I was going to say much more, the gist of which you´ll probably both intuit, so I guess I´ll stop. LL

Is he really leaving? If I was a more spiritually evolved person I would, like ilumairen, sincerely wish him well. Someday I hope to be that person. As for right now, the best I can do is say I don´t wish him harm. This has been a difficult chapter in my Dao Bums history. I don´t like fighting with people and usually manage to avoid it. While I don´t believe I have anything to apologize for, if I had it to do over I would say a few things differently. If I´d had my emotional intelligence cap on I would have realized from the get-go that nothing positive would come from mentioning GSM in the first place. @sean I´m left wondering where we are now as a board and as a community. Are there still rules? Is it now OK to insult, to threaten? Many prefer a more anything-goes atmosphere but not me. I´d prefer more active moderation, though I realize that´s a lot of work and I´m not volunteering for the job. Part of the answer, for me anyway, is to do a better job of moderating the way I use the board. This is perhaps more important than any external policing or lack of policing. Who do I choose to engage with? Which threads do I welcome into my mindspace? TDB is a large and varied buffet offering many nourishing and scrumptious dishes. I still believe this. But not everything suits my digestion.

@GSmaster Threatening other members is not OK. In the past this was always a hard line: no threats. If you are as powerful as you say you are, then this kind of talk is especially egregious. If you are delusional or playing or just grandiose, it still fosters a feeling of insecurity and lack of safety. Insults are one thing -- that I can walk away from. Threats are quite another. Is there any active moderation at this time? I´ve reported the first post I quoted and suggest others do the same. Rocky and iluminairen likely don´t take these threats seriously but all sorts of people visit this forum and somebody else might really be intimidated. Nobody should feel that their safety is compromised by participation on this board.

No worries, Dwai -- I caught your meaning. To be honest, I never feel tempted to overeat when I see other people acting idiotically. Sometimes though, when I catch myself doing something foolish, I´ll have a cookie.

That´s just it though. Maybe it´s a style thing, but I don´t see the point in telling people that they´re idiots. It´s always a bother for the idiot in question. If you called me an idiot -- and you might -- am I likely to consider your opinion and change my idiotic ways? That never happens. Idiots get angry when you point out their shortcoming; they don´t reform. Does it give pleasure calling others idiots? There might be some fleeting low-grade satisfaction asserting superiority, but why bother when there are so many better ways to feel good? I´d rather look at a sunset, read a poem, or eat a taco. OK; here´s my idiot plan. I¨m going to eat a carne asada taco everytime I read a post written by an idiot. Rather than use the laugh button, I´ll post weekly selfies in my PPD documenting my weight gain. Laugh if you must.

The laughing icon is no funny matter. @shazlor rightly points out that it´s often used to express contempt. I wish people would use words instead when they disagree, because how do you respond to a derisive chuckle? If you object to being laughed it, you´ll probaby just be laughed at some more. Sometimes I´ll think a post is funny and use the laugh icon to let someone know I appreciate their humor. On more than one occasion I´ve wondered if my message got through correctly: did the poster know that their post amused me in a positive way or did they think I was making fun?

I like the new avatar better too -- less dark, more playful, a little goofy even. I´m still not so taken with his ideas about mental health diagnosis, but as long as I´m not going to him for psychiatric care I guess I´ll be OK.

Hi Dwai, I agree that there´s an awful lot of rancor and nastiness here. And yet, even now, there are shards of brilliant light: Small Fur´s discussion of "Cultivating the Golden Seed"; Silent Thunders "What Remains" thread. i personally expose myself to more of the nastiness than is strictly necessary because I keep clicking here on Levitation to watch the ongoing shenanigans. It´s possible your auto-suspending idea could work, but I´d be hesitant to implement it for a few reasons. Occasionally there are members with unpopular views who don´t deserve to be shut out just because their ideas don´t accord with current norms. Imagine if someone who spoke out about Trump (either in favor or against) was voted out by a coalition of members from the other side? Also, I think conversation suffers when people focus too heavily on being "liked." This is a problem even with the like button, and I think it would be compounded with a don´t like button. It´s easy to fall into the notion that my value as a Bum corresponds to the number of likes my posts get. It´s easy to write posts in order to collect social capital, to be liked, rather than to communicate. Every time someone likes a post of mine, I get a little neurochemical ding in my brain that is highly rewarding. (So PLEASE! -- like my posts.) I´d favor going back to the "no insult" rule. Ultimately though, I don´t think there´s any good way to weed out the incivility. Perhaps it´s best to just walk around.

It´s more than just possible. Among those who have maximum amounts of sex, emotional and sexual suppresion is the norm. Then again, that´s my bias.

I kinda think that all these movement and meditation practices have infinite depth, because it´s not just what you do -- it´s the awareness with which you do it. In other words, the point is not simply to move in such-and-such a way. The point is to connect the mind with the movement of the body. It´s not so different from meditations on the movement of the breath. Breathing isn´t hard (for most). Rock steady focus on the breath is another matter. Isn´t it true that increasing unity of body and mind facilitates ever increasing energetic development?

The paradox of religious sexual repression is that it leads to precisely the kind of sexual behavior it´s intended to prevent: Bible belt Christians aren´t supposed to frequent "Adult Superstores" but there they are. People are lucky, or perhaps karmically blessed, if they manage to avoid repression entirely and enjoy -- or abstain from enjoying -- physical intimacy to whatever extent they wish without making a big to-do about it. But what about the many people already caught in the grip of sexual repression/compulsion? It´s a real question. One that I don´t have an answer to. Clearly piling on more repression and sex-negativity is no answer. That "solution" is what created the problem. But going in the other direction and saying anything goes doesn´t help either. When it comes to sex, some kinds of things don´t go. Many kinds of sexual relations are harmful, in varying degrees, either to oneself or somebody else. People struggle with this, or at least many do. From a position of ease, it might appear laughable watching people white-knuckling through so called 100 day periods of chastity. Perhaps the answer to this problem, like so many other problems, is simply to let go. Rather than repressing our sexuality or, conversely, falling into an orgy of permissiveness, we can simply lay our sexual baggage down by the side of the road and move on.

I´ve always been intrigued by mirror work. Some people say fantastic transformations are possible just by staring wordlessly in a mirror. Earl Grey once alluded to an esoteric mirror practice and I asked him by PM if he´d share. He declined. Well, that´s not really true: he said that the practice would likely be accesible to me but would require an online meeting with a teacher and a substantial investment of time and money. Well, the Dao works in mysterious ways: I´ve stumbled onto an effective mirror practice right here on TDB and for free! Funny though, it´s not nearly so fun as I´d imagined.

Daoist practice, if it means anything at all, leads to internal shifts -- in the body, the mind, consciousness itself. These shifts don´t necessarily announce themselves in the clothes someone wears, a person´s social associations, or even their knowledge of Daoist manuscripts. I think the question of whether or not to join up with groups of people claiming Daoist affiliation is a personal one: will my connection with this person or organization further my spiritual growth? Most would agree it´s helpful to have a teacher. Beyond that, the decision gets trickier. I´m glad spiritual organizations exist for those who feel drawn to that path. To each their own.

@GSmaster I´m letting this go.