liminal_luke

Then you´re a better man than I am, Nungali. Maybe it´s an Aussie thing? (Oh there I go again, boxing people into categories based on preconceptions. I´m a bit rigid that way -- what can I say?)

Good for you, Nungali, good for you! As a sidenote, I use my own Hogwarts sorting hat to put people into categories. Left to their own devices, the Bums in question might put themselves in a different category or, like Dawai, consider themselves without a category altogether.

Theoretically, it shouldn´t matter -- the rules ought to be the same for everybody. Would they be out if they´d called me a dipshit? I can´t know for sure but judging from past experience I doubt it. Even so, I think the right decision was made, at least in the case of Windwalker. He´s been curmudgeonly and snide and sneakily hostile -- for years now. The board may have been good for him but he has not been good for the board. And it´s not simply that I disagree with his politics. I often disagree just as strongly with other right-leaning Bums (Joeblast and Redcairo come to mind) whom I respect and consider friends.

OK, back to the topic. (With my apologies if my comments about board policy have annoyed.) Sean asked if there are any actual leftists on the forum, and I gather from the responses that the answer is a resounding YES. A few honest-to-goodness lefties have bravely stepped forward. I myself fit best in the much maligned "progressive Democrat" category which doesn´t count, but some of my best friends are veritable commies. It´s refreshing to hear these leftists voices. It´s good to know that the Bum membership includes smart, knowledgable people from across the political spectrum.

Stosh does make a good point about "welcomeness." Ideally, we´d all work together to make this a place where people are likely to feel welcome. That doesn´t mean that Bums can´t have and voice political opinions, just that they don´t smear others who think and feel differently. The political threads are rife with derisive comments and putdowns. One member consistently refers to Democrats as the dims, suggesting (I think) that members of my political party are of low intelligence. While not explicitly against the rules, this kind of language doesn´t make me feel welcome. I don´t always agree with Stosh, so it´s nice to see we have something in common: we both want to feel welcome here.

Amen to both posts quoted above. As Sean says: "Speech is not harmless." I think the board has been harmed by the proliferation of political threads and suggest steps be taken to bring the board back to it´s spiritual roots. Why not do away with political talk here altogether? Trump Talk is like Hagen Daz: if it´s in the fridge, even buried under the frozen broccoli in Off Grid, I´m gonna consume it. I admire those Bums who have made a conscious decision not to use the forum to talk politics but that´s not me. And I´d argue that even those who abstain from Trump Talk are harmed by it. The nature of the board changes and not in a good way. Let´s change it back. LL

Hi Sean, Great to see you posting again here! I´m not sure I´d qualify as the kind of lefty you are inquiring about, but I am somebody whose disheartened with the pronounced right wing slant of the political threads here. It´s weird. Don´t socialists read Chuang Tzu and practice Tai Chi? I think they do, though you wouldn´t know it reading the Trump Talk thread. My take is that appearances are deceiving. Many of the Bums I respect most are left-leaning cultivators who simply prefer to post about spirituality and eschew political conversation here altogether. In my experience, the political threads are mostly toxic -- and addictive (like so many other toxic things). Luckily, there´s a lot of other more nourishing conversation to be had when I tear myself away from the political fighting. Thanks so much for the forum. It´s been a blessing in my life. LL

Most people have a capacity for both feelings and logical thought. And I suspect most of us come to our political beliefs through some mixture of the two. You rightly point out how heartstring arguments, unbalanced by a careful consideration of actual fact, can lead people to political loopiness. It´s for precisely this reason that I think it´s wise to pay attention to our emotions and know ourselves deeply. By becoming aware of our psychological blind spots we minimize the possibility of being bamboozled.

What I found valuable about this talk is the idea of "deep story," the notion that political views can be rooted in a story that reflects emotional needs and solves emotional problems. I think this is true and applies equally to people on the left and the right.

My recommendation? Try both and then do what you want. Assuming you have competent instruction, you really can´t go wrong.

Agreed. I have no idea what happens to someone after a death from suicide. Perhaps it is as terrible as some here have portrayed but I hope not. How cruel that someone should suffer so in this life only to suffer to an even greater degree in the next. My dad committed suicide and I always wonder why he didn´t go to New Zealand instead. He used to talk about going to New Zealand and raising sheep, and he could have done it too, why not. I hope he´s not burning in some terrible hell realm. That wouldn´t seem fair. We didn´t get along very well when I was a kid and I could tell lots of bad stories about him -- and yet he was also a good person. He was a person who did the best he knew how under difficult circumstances. My dad and others like him, people dealing with great emotional pain, deserve our compassion not our condemnation.

I was also impressed by the Day One practice videos and particularly liked "nourishing qi." Am a little concerned that some of the strong fire breathing will be overly stimulating for me personally healthwise, but I guess I´ll just take it easy and see how it goes. There does seem to be some muscular tension and visualization -- the two things Freeform warned about -- and yet previous class participants wrote in the forum about physical/mental health benefits. I like Robert´s energy a lot and everything about the course seems well put together.

I´m taking the course (starting today!) so I guess I´ll find out. Robert Peng says that what differentiates his form from others shown on Youtube is an emphasis on specific breathing methods. I don´t know all of the breathing (it´s the topic of week one) but part of it is reverse abdominal breathing. From reading posts in his forum, I gather there are some visualizations connected with the different organs/meridians. Personally, I´m not convinced such visualizations are always a bad thing. The "inner smile" as taught by Michael Winn involves imagining smiling energy and it seems inocuous enough. I do appreciate your point of view however: a few weeks ago you explained, quite convincingly, why it doesn´t work to imagine qi sinking. Thanks for that. I´m thinking of keeping a journal of my experience of the course in my PPD in case any other Bums might be interested in the practice.

In a video, Robert said that Yi Jin Jing is a classical qigong style, much as ballet is a classical dance style. He said that many dancers start out with ballet training as a base, even if they then go on to practice other dance styles. Similarly, Yi Jin Jing provides a foundation from which cultivators can branch out in a number of other directions. i think It´s intended as a beginning point rather than an end point.

I suggest a two-step process for dealing with strong emotions, including anger. Step one: feel what you feel. Repression is bad for the body and there´s no sense pretending to feel only "love and light" if that´s not the case. Step two: take the step back suggested by Thelerner. Just because you feel angry doesn´t mean you need to punch someone. In fact, punching someone is rarely the best option. The key is to create space between an emotion and the acting out of that emotion. A big part of being an adult is not acting out our emotions -- while still allowing ourselves to feel them.

If nothing else, it is heartening to see how much people care. The voice of depression says that nobody gives a damn; this thread demonstrates otherwise. So many wonderful people offering wisdom and support.

I recently watched a Robert Peng video in which he said that infants (up to about the age of 6 months) reverse breathe. I´m no baby expert -- is this true? If so, it suggests to me that reverse breathing is good for something. (On the other hand, Robert Peng contrasts reverse breathing with unreversed breathing which he calls natural breathing...so, I dunno.)

Yi Jin Jing seems to be in the air. There´s another thread now about Robert Peng´s online class as well. I think it starts on July 20, though. I plan on taking it. https://www.penguniversity.com/,

Thanks @Cosmic Soldier for bringing this to my attention. Looks interesting. There´s an online course starting July 20 and I think I´m going to do it.

I had no idea 3bob was suspended. Did he do something out of the ordinary or just his usual? Given the general "looseness" of the off-grid area, I think he should of been able to speak his mind. (Unless there´s some new variety of post I don´t know about?) In my reckoning of offensive/destructive posters 3bob is nowhere near the top.

We can think of the breath as having four parts: the inhale, the pause at the top of the inhale, the exhale, and the pause at the bottom of the exhale. Although it´s possible (and a practice in it´s own right) to completely eliminate the pauses, most people will naturally have slight pauses at the end of an inhale and exhale. Already this is breath retention, albeit in a very minor form. The pauses are powerful because they are moments of neutrality, of balance, of silence. They are analogous to the solstices. The days get longer and longer (inhale) until finally there´s a moment of pause as we get to maximum yang at the summer solstice (pause of top of inhale). Then the days get shorter and shorter (exhale) until finally there´s a moment of pause as we get to to maximum yin at the winter solstice (pause at bottom of exhale).

@Walker All of us size up other people based, at least to some extent, on our own personal histories. As a gay man, I don´t take kindly to people saying that a particular martial art is for gays, implying that men like myself couldn´t possibly be serious and skilled fighters, that we just want to roll around on the floor with each other half-naked. I´d heard enough of that kind of put down to last me a life time by the time I´d reached the 8th grade. In a similar way, I´ll bet that your background as someone who has lived around violence makes you sensitive to macho dudes who brag about how they could hurt other people. We object to this kind of talk even in jest. I agree with you that it´s harmful. And yet I don´t share your passion for objecting to Starjumper´s teaching. My sense is that he knows a lot and genuinely wants to impart his knowledge to others. I think that beneath the bravado he´s a peaceful, maybe even loving, person. Is he perfect? No. Would I prefer if he dropped the aggressive posing? Absolutely. But teachers are human beings and even good ones come with a whole bevy of flaws. The truth is that Starjumper is going to teach. Some students might benefit from his instruction, others may not. You and I will likely not be among his pupils. Perhaps that´s our loss, perhaps it isn´t. In general, I´m not a fan of threads whose purpose is to say that a particular teacher or teachings is bad. There are bad teachers out there, but it mostly doesn´t help to say so. People are going to study with the folks they feel a connection with. Some people are going to study with Starjumper, even though we´re bothered by some of his verbiage. Rather than pointing out the bad, I find it´s much more useful to champion the good. Objecting to Starjumper won´t stop other people from studying with him. We just don´t have that power and I´m not convinced it would be a good thing if we did. I suggest focusing on the positive. What spiritual practices have made a difference in your life? How did you learn about them? Your answers to these questions will likely inspire others; attempting to takedown Starjumper won´t.

I´ll second this. I´ve learned a lot from teachers whose personal style I didn´t like much. One of my favorite practices came to me from of a flamboyant fellow with a way too high opinion of his own abilities. Still, what he taught was gold.

Hi Zero Inf, There are videos available here on the site, usually embedded from Youtube, some of which appear quite good. Also quite a few great practices posted by members available for free. A lot depends on what you are looking for, hoping to accomplish. Yes, it´s discouraging that live instruction isn´t available in your area and that paid materials are out of economic reach. Even so, what´s most important is your own dedication and determination. If you can log on here, help is available.

Darkness rocks! I´m on a mission to create a totally lightless sleeping environment. The blackout curtain material I bought on Amazon works as far as it goes but light is still seeping in here and there and I´m an all or nothing guy when it comes to darkness -- even a hint of light is too much. Your remark about light on the skin mirrors my own experience. Sleeping masks that cover the eyes do little good if I "know" that light is still hitting my skin. The beauty of darkness to induce relaxation is that it´s so easy. Well, finding/creating darkness isn´t always easy...but once the darkness is there the relaxation comes on it´s own -- no effort required. Relaxation ought to be easy and in the dark it is.