liminal_luke

It´s hard to pin down the motivations of other people with any certainty. I thought @Salvijus was hiding an antipathy toward trans people under the cover of spiritual talk, but he denies it and what do I know? Sorry if I got you wrong Salvijus. The topic reminds me of a conversation I had with a black friend of mine. Greg told me that years ago he was often followed around in stores by security people and chalked this up to racism. He supposed that I´d never been followed around like that. (I´m white.) That´s not true though. I remember being followed around from room to room by a shopkeeper in a gallery in Guadalajara. She was pretending to clean and I felt like telling her to cut the act and just accompany me as I looked around. Apparently, the whiteness of my skin didn´t put her at ease. Who woulda thunk? This is a difficult topic and I hope we can give each other more than the usual "benefit of the doubt."

Here´s the thing, Salvijus. Is a transgender person who transitions more real or less? Who decides '-- is it you? And what should the consequences be for someone found to be "unreal"? We could look the other way when such people are physically assualted, always a popular option, so much more defensible than death squads. Or maybe it would be enough to make the unreal feel lonely and banished from society with the careful application of moral censure? I´m sure you have some good ideas. (I was probably a bit hard on you above, Salvijus. I´m sure you don´t want to hurt transgendered people. It´s true though that in many places such people are in physical danger. Seems to me it´s better just to let people do what they want -- whether or not we think they are "real" -- rather than policing for others ideas about how to be.)

If only more parents in rural northern California understood this argument in 1977. When my dad asked why I liked to dance in grocery stores and had no interest in football, I might have explained that as an enlightened spiritual being I´d transcended conventional gender categories.

Agreed. Sadly, those who say "if you were enlightened you´d see it *this* way" are so seldom enlightened themselves. Ya gotta love this place though. Elsewhere, if people want to criticize transgendered people they say they´re going against God or unnatural or some other such nonsense; here, they say they are unenlightened.

So glad you appreciated the clip! The whole movie (The Boys in the Band) is wonderful though perhaps a little niche, more likely to win the cold jaded hearts of old gays like myself than those with more mainstream tastes.

It did! A few years later I went on to being fascinated with food. Oh how delighted I was to purchase a magazine with all the menus from Sacramento´s fancy eateries. Restaurant food has proved the more enduring obsession.

That´s hilarious. Needless to say, it would never occur to me to steal a book on quantum dynamics. I was born in Los Angeles where we steal - what? -- maybe surfer magazines. I did however have a math fetish as a preadolescent. It wasn´t so much that I understood complex mathematics, I was just fascinated by all the squiggles and fancy notation. I remember a librarian who was not amused when, at the age of about 12, I went to check out a book on vector calculus.

I wonder why. Maybe people are defending against their own insecurities with put-downs? I´ve never been to Russia and know next to zilch about Russian culture but the stereotypes in my mind are of people with extreme abilities -- great gymnasts, brilliant nuclear scientists, etc. I´m sure that can´t be universally correct. It would be reassuring to know that there are Russians of average intelligence and athleticism -- surely there are thousands! -- but alas, you are not helping in that department.

Great idea! There are so many places where one treads carefully -- the entire current events section, recent transgender thread, etc -- so it´s nice to know there´s still someplace where we can let it all hang out.

Jeff Zaslow, when asked by an interviewer what gave him the audacity to apply at his young age for a position as an advice columnist... "I may only be 28, but I have the wisdom of a 29-year old."

Back in the day, I was one of those vaguely new-age dudes with an oversized interest in what I euphemistically thought of as the nexus between sexuality and spirituality. I let a workshop leader talk me out of attending "Cosmic Orgasm Awareness Week" because there would be women there and I was inexperienced in their wily ways. Big mistake. Yeah, I might have been uncomfortable but so what. In the end, we´re all human.

This seemed like the right moment to share my favorite movie clip. I often feel like Harold arriving late to the party. Life´s tough. I hope we´ll be easy with each other.

Sometimes all ya can do is forgive, ourselves and others. It´s not like we can stop being alluring.

That happens with us gay folk too, as I´m sure you can imagine, but not so much as some would like.

Is it hard to make in-person trans friends in Texas? My best friends live in Palm Springs, a city so gay ya can´t throw an acupuncture needle without hitting a queen. There´s a special feeling of camaraderie hanging out with my gay gringo tribe that I miss here in Mexico.

Seems to me there´s different things at play here, our physical anatomy and our spiritual essence. Of the two, I would agree with most posters here that the spiritual essence, one´s deep sense of oneself, is the more important. One interesting question, or area to explore anyways, is the relationship between trans identity and femininity/masculinity. Are there lots of butch transwomen and fem transmen? Can a butch guy transition to an identity as a women without embracing her girly side? I´ve found that it´s possible to be a man and still be in touch with my feminine side, not always easy but possible. Can transmen be in touch with their feminine side or am I "unclear on the concept"?

Agreed on both points -- thanks!

Jadespear has a pointed writing style and I can understand how people would find it offensive. Still, I think there has to be a place in a thread like this for those who don´t believe that transwomen are women. I think it´s a matter of definition. If we define "woman" by referencing biological sex then Jadespear has a point. Fortunately, there are medical interventions that allow transgendered people to change their bodies to be more in line with their gender identities, but these interventions are imperfect and incomplete. This is such a difficult topic. It seems like the choices are to agree with the current thinking about gender -- transwomen are women -- or be labeled a bigot. There´s got to be a middle way. Surely someone can use the traditional biologically-based definitions of women and men and still be supportive of trans people? I would never tell Maddie she´s not a woman because it goes against one of my much cherished personal policies: don´t be an asshole. I suspect that transgendered people (and gay people) have a special role to play in the spiritual evolution of our species. I suspect that transwomen have, for lack of a better word, womanly souls. Ivy Compten-Burnett wrote: The universe exists and nothing is going to endure it. We´re all trying in this life and if transitioning makes someone happier then more power to them. Who am I to question someone else´s choices? I hope that all women´s spaces are open to Maddie and that she feels warmly welcomed wherever she goes. But if asked to sign a petition affirming that "transwomen are women" I would demur. In my opinion, my refusal should not be against Tao Bums law but it might be. I await my consequences.

If you haven´t got anything nice to say about anybody come sit next to me. - Alice Roosevelt Longworth

`When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, `it means just what I choose it to mean--neither more nor less.' `The question is,' said Alice, `whether you CAN make words mean so many different things.' `The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, `which is to be master-- that's all.' -- Lewis Carroll To me, this passage has a distinctly transgender flair.

I don´t think we´ve seen a genuine picture of him yet but he has a certain rough bad boy charm, no? Oh well, no accounting for taste I guess.

‘First think of the person who lives in disguise, Who deals in secrets and tells naught but lies. Next, tell me what’s always the last thing to mend, The middle of middle and end of the end? And finally give me the sound often heard During the search for a hard-to-find word. Now string them together, and answer me this, Which creature would you be unwilling to kiss? -- Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire @Apech What was it I -- and a gazillion others -- liked so much about Harry Potter? It´s one of the world´s greatest mysteries, right up there with the popularity of Mantak Chia.

I went through all the Harry Potters and some Twilight too. Was going to take a picture of my bookshelf for show and tell but ran into technical difficulties. That´s probably just as well; this is a hard audience.

I prefer her over Lord Byron. (Just kidding. I haven´t read Lord Byron.)

I don´t know but I´ll throw out a theory. Could it be that women generally prefer a more collaborative, friendly kind of internet engagement and that the forum lends itself to forceful, sometimes aggressive statements of opinion that some women find offputting?