liminal_luke

You might be amused to know that I find you, Windwalker, one of the most cantankerous and annoying Bums of all time. No doubt you`ll say that`s because I`m too attached to your words. Well, guilty as charged. I once suggested that we ignore each other, and did in fact have you on ignore for some time. Of course you quoted me at every opportunity and never in a complimentary way. I suppose I should thank you for all the growth opportunities your posts have provided. Maybe someday I will but I`m not that spiritually evolved at the moment. I have, however, taken you off ignore. Perhaps that`s progress? In any case, I`m getting less and less attached to your posts all the time. Maybe there`s hope for me yet.

I`m not entirely sure whether I`ve been genuinely complimented or mercilessly skewered. Leaning towards the latter. In either case, I`ll stumble blithely forward and say a few words in praise of the coffee klatsch as a support for spiritual practice. How often do we practice alone? A bit more than is good for us, I`d say. I`m all for solitude and wandering hermits; those things also have their place. But human beings mostly do best in relationship with one another. Sometimes these relationships are deep and meaningful, as with a spouse or a beloved teacher. Sometimes these relationships are more casual, as is typically the case in your average coffee klatsch. These casual relationships we have over coffee (or tea, or beer) can form a net of relational safety that holds and grounds us in the everyday, giving us a necessary ballast as we then explore the esoteric. LL

This happened to me just yesterday. This morning when I first checked my DaoBums I noticed that Zork (fun name!) had responded to one of my posts. I clicked to see if he liked it or was sad or whatever and, wouldn`t ya know it, up popped a weird message -- you don`t have permission... I was mildly annoyed but will get over it after I`ve had my coffee.

I agree that there`s a lot of unnecessary negativity here and also a lot of truly wonderful posts and posters -- and that it`s always been this way. Unfortunately, pointing out the negative parts and complaining about them doesn`t change anything. God knows I`ve tried.

I know this is a spiritual forum, so perhaps some expect joy and bliss, but I`m all about dour musings. My PPF used to be full of nothing but.

About householders and renunciates... Seems to me that everybody gets to choose what works for them; there is no right way that`s necessarilly better for everybody. At first glance, the path of the renunciate would seem to be spiritually advantageous -- all that time for focused and uninterrupted practice. Then again, the demands of the secular world may provide spiritually useful challenges. The best environment is not always the most comfortable or the easiest. Also, who says that everything needs to be tackled with 100% devotion. It`s OK, I think, to approach some things more casually, even spirituality. I play piano and I^m pretty good though there are literally millions who play better. Should I devote every waking minute to become a more proficient piano player? That would be one valid choice. To me, though, it`s just as valid to enjoy my present level of skill such as it is and put my time towards a balance of other activities that I also find rewarding. Some people meditate for five minutes in the morning before work and that`s it. They might find it sets a nice tone for the day and helps them not be so stressed. Should they instead pack their bags for the forest monastery? Perhaps not. I think that no effort is wasted, no matter how small, and we`d do well to accept people where they are.

It`s probably just my stage of life, but right now I`m not so concerned on increasing IQ, more concerned about preventing dementia. Fortunately, dementia prevention is the easier hack and can be accomplished with tasty foods -- avocados, dark chocolate, and so on. People of all ages can benefit from eating in a way that nourishes the brain. You might not become a genius but you`ll be able to find your way home from the grocery store.

I like spontaneous movement and think something like shaking (or "jiggling" as it`s called in Zapchen circles) can be a complete system all on it`s own. You certainly can`t get any simpler. Long-term Bums will remember the Kunlun craze that spread through the board like wildfire. People were getting all sorts of results, both good and bad, from simply allowing their bodies to move without conscious direction. To me, such a system implies a profound faith in the natural wisdom of the body that feels very Daoist. We allow our body to move as it will, trusting an innate and deeply personal somatic intelligence to guide our journey so that it brings health, openness, and, ultimately, the awakening of our deepest spiritual potential.

Know! You must judge all people favorably. Even in the case of a complete rasha, you must search until you find some modicum of good in him, the part that is not evil! By finding this small drop of good and judging him favorably, you are genuinely able to lift him to the place where he has some merit and this enables him to return to his true, good self. –Likutey Moharan, 282 (Azamra) I like this teaching from Rebbe Nachman of Bratslav. One way of helping others is simply to regard them favorably. Because this intervention is so humble and unshowy (it takes place in the privacy of our own minds) it avoids the pitfall of narcissicism that can otherwise plague ostensibly helpful behavior. There`s no attempt to puff oneself up with ostentatious displays of saintliness. It`s not posting pictures of oneself helping poor children in Cambodia on Facebook. Instead, we simply look for the "good points" of others, especially in situations where such good points might seem in short supply. Regarding other people favorably, we naturally incline towards treating them in ways that allow the good we see to blossom. Notably, this practice can also be applied towards ourselves. Never mind the bad things we may have done, we can search our minds and find the good within ourselves and focus on it. Focusing on our good is like watering the plant of our own virtue.

You`re right that people are often not what they seem. And it is confusing -- and frightening -- figuring out how to navigate in a social world where deception is so commonplace. I`ll say this. There are many practices you might engage in that over time would strengthen your body energetically and physically. Along with strength, I think these practices would give you a sense of calm and confidence. A strong body is a calm body. Your nervous system would relax. Your heart would feel more open. From this place of strength and calm and openness, you would have a lot of power. For starters, you`d have the power of discernment. You`d know -- in a deep, natural way -- who could be trusted and who shouldn`t be. And you`d know how to deal skillfully with those who can`t be trusted. I think you`d feel less frightened. The beautiful thing about these practices is that everything comes from inside you. Yes, you might have a teacher, but ultimately it`s up to you to do the practices, or not, and feel for yourself what happens. I wish you the best. LL

You wouldn`t be the first. Have you checked out StarJumper`s Taoist retreat center there? I believe there are pictures in a thread somewhere here. It`s not a bad idea, if your life circumstances permit, to spend some quality time in nature away from the craziness of society. But far be it from me to offer a compassionate suggestion. And yes, I agree that a lot of what passes for "help" is misguided.

Rideforever, My opinion. You`re on to something but too eager to paint huge groups of mostly good people with the devil`s brush. Is there "violent greed, revenge and nastiness" in the conventional medical industry? No doubt. Perhaps you have some personal experience with it. That said, is it really true that every doctor, nurse, x-ray tech, and so on, is secretly a wolf? They are not. Most are well-meaning and sincerely want to help people. You don`t want to be fooled by false compassion. Fair enough. But to fail to see the real good in people is just as big an error as failing to see the real bad.

Wandelaar, I loved math as a teenager and the topic of complex/imaginary numbers especially intrigued me. I once checked out a book on differential calculus from the library just because I loved pouring over all the strange (to me) notations. Although I did my best to decipher the meaning of the text, my engagement with the material never really went beyond an aesthetic fascination with the mathmatical symbols. For better or worse, my life path hasn`t required me to do much electrical engineering. I`m purely a consumer of the electrical engineering efforts of others. That might seem sad, I guess, but nobody can do everything. Could you say a little more about why the average non-engineer Bum might be interested in the topic of complex numbers. Is there a tie-in with spirituality?

Physicists have equations to describe how gases diffuse into a space. Squeeze the nozzle of an oxygen tank emptying the contents into a closed room. At first the oxygen will be concentrated in the area immediately surrounding the tank, but before you know it the air will be uniformly saturated with the gas. Diffusion happens. Is there an equation to describe how love diffuses into a space? Perhaps some personal experimentation is in order. As Steve says: The organism and environment are mutually interdependent. It`s fantastically empowering, this idea that we are seamlessly connected with the larger world. I can be influential and I love that! Say I want my partner to be more loving or gentle or a more disciplined washer of the dinner dishes. I can cultivate the desired quality in myself and simply allow the expansion. Actually, I don`t have to allow anything. Good vibes are contagious; it`s a natural law. I`m goin` viral.

Hi Menezes, Could you tell us more about the kinds of results you`re looking for? Maybe it`s just stupid good luck, but pretty much everything I`ve tried has seemed real to me. There are so many things a person could hope for from their spiritual practice: relaxation, the healing of a specific condition, gaining healing abilities to help others, happiness, the development of compassion and other positive virtues, a pathway towards ultimate connection with the ground of reality (I just made that one up `cause it sounded good). What is it you want?

If you`re looking for a "comparable blender" -- consider Blendtec. I believe there are refurbished ones for less money than new. Mine worked wonderfully until I had some problems with the seal of the jar. Could have gotten it fixed, and still might someday I guess, but the fix would of been like $100 and I was over my blender infatuation by that point.

This is exactly my position, too.

My heart goes out to your sister, ST. Too bad Doug didn`t do his leaving in a more forthright way. I think people are often more open-minded and accepting than we give them credit for, even those whose religious affiliations make acceptance seem unlikely.

I love this. While there`s nothing "wrong" with big spiritual ambitions, this relaxed approach just feels so grounded, mature, and refreshing. Please post pictures when you wash up on one of the lesser Hawaiian Islands and start bartending.

The idea that only people of opposite genders should be sexually attracted to each other causes profound suffering. If you don`t have empathy for gay men, consider their wives. Believing that homosexuality is a sin, many gay men get married and have kids only to discover that outwardly heterosexual behavior doesn`t a heterosexual make. Oops! The marriages flounder for obvious reasons and, when the truth eventually comes out, great pain ensues.

Maybe spiritual cultivation is a little like investing in the stock market. Everyone is trying to find the perfect system when most would be better off forgetting systems altogether and focusing instead on simple principles. Take virtue, for instance. While ethics can get unbelievably complicated, simply considering what the right thing to do is and doing it puts us way ahead of the curve. If we add a little kindness to basic decency, the foundation is set for spiritual development. Everything works better in a body that is relaxed and healthy so that`s something to work on too. Exercise, diet, some sort of strategy for dealing with stress. Positive relationships with friends and family. These kinds of things aren`t what`s usually meant when people talk about spiritual systems but the underpinnings of a good life are the underpinnings of good spiritual development. The best system in the world won`t take you very far if you`re a chain smoking criminal enmeshed in a hostile custody battle for your alienated kids. First things first. To me, the idea of a system implies component parts. First you do this, and then, when condition XYZ is reached, you do this other thing. Trying to follow instructions in a book like Taoist Yoga is harder than putting together modular furniture from IKEA. And that`s saying something. If the goal is enlightenment or immortality perhaps such complication is necessary. But most people would benefit greatly from taking one simple thing and exploring it in depth over a few decades. Take a basic standing practice like "standing like a tree." A practice like that deepens and develops over time. Who among us has taken standing like a tree all the way? Have any of us gotten all there is to get from simple standing? I doubt it. So many things are like that. The inner smile. Watching the breath. I suspect that getting to enlightenment or awakening doesn`t take great cognitive skill. What it may take is great endurance in the face of boredom. Many of us already know a system that could potentially take us to enlightenment. Some of us know many such systems. And yet we`re still looking because looking is fun. Spiritual development, as ultimately rewarding as it may be, is often physically and emotionally uncomfortable. Not fun. (Note: These are just my opinions as someone who claims no particular enlightenment or awakening. Fact is, I could do with a good deal more spiritual discipline myself. I do however like to share my thoughts and often do so instead of practicing. Take with salt.)

I`m looking mighty debonair in that photo, Lost in Translation. Leangains style intermittent fasting must really work!

I don`t always do intermittent fasting, but when I do I follow the Leangains approach of eating in an 8 hour window, from noon till 8pm. Is this the way everyone should eat? Probably not. Everybody is different and has to find what works for them. This eating schedule does work for me and many others. It`s worth considering.

I like Steve`s idea of simultaneously embracing the relative and the absolute. Maybe these two views are like pedals on a bike and we need both to ride. Let`s just suppose it`s true in an absolute sense that people "create" their own reality and are 100% responsible for their experience. Many people believe this. Now imagine someone close to you gets cancer. From a very expanded point of view there`s nothing "wrong" with having cancer. Having cancer might in fact be a perfect expression of an inherently compassionate universe. However, not everyone with cancer will enjoy hearing this. An exculsively focus on the absolute can appear to lack compassion. And yet compassionate action is also hindered when our consciousness is narrowly bound exclusively to relative reality. We need the openness and expansion that comes with absolute consciousness to put relative experience into a compassionate context. Otherwise all we`ve got is "life sucks and then you die." Our hypothetical cancer patient might not want to hear this, either. Without the absolute, our experience seems to lack meaning and possibility. Kindness happens when we can hold these two views together, the relative and the absolute, without disparaging either understanding. Our relative experience is true and valid, and we can experience it within the larger field of absolute reality. In this way pain can be understood, validated, and transformed.

...