liminal_luke

Master Chia once demonstrated some Chi Nei Tsang massage on me during a workshop and I wasn`t a twenty year old female hottie at the time. So please, let`s not hold the fact that he`s also offered bodywork to attactive women against him. Are all of his techniques suitable for all Taoist practitioners? No, of course not. Over the years, seasoned Bums have offered cautions about his methods: avoid forceful packing of chi, don`t try to stop an orgasm with the "million dollar point," ...and so on. These cautions are largely warranted and newbies would do well to exercise caution. And yet...so much good has come out of Master Chia`s work. Many of his students are first rate -- Michael Winn, Gilles Marin, Juan Li. He`s a powerful person whose done powerful work, not easily discounted. Don`t throw the master out with the bathwater.

As you rightly point out, the gay community is incredibly diverse. If only all gay men were anti-american sorts who supported criminal behavior --- it would be so much easier to find a politically compatible date on a Saturday night. (As always, thanks for the thoughtful post. Stick to the issues is a great basic guideline. So much of the time in the Trump Talk thread we`re not talking about Trump; we`re talking about each other. That`s when things go south, imo.)

I started out thinking we needed to stop talking Trump. But then posts like the one from Aetherous you quoted convinced me that was the wrong approach. Now I just think we need to be nicer to each other. Clearly people aren`t going to stop insulting each other just because I`d like them to though. One alternative would be to have more active moderation. If I was a moderator I`d swoop in at the least provocation, handing out suspensions by the handful as one would dole out miniature Snickers bars to greedy little trick-or-treating Halloween witches. I wouldn`t be happy and neither would my much put-upon fellow Bums. I wish people would stop treating each other with contempt. Whether or not expressions of contempt can (or should) be eliminated by moderation is an open question.

That`s not surprising. If you`ve written something I`m likely to understand (not too technical, not in Russian) I`d be interested in reading it. Especially if it`s available on Amazon Kindle. (Otherwise I could get it from a regular bookstore when I return to the states.) If you`re open to sharing the author side of your life with us Bums (and I get that you might not be), please let us know what you`ve written.

A person could fairly say that this whole topic started out in the gutter and has only gone downhill from there. I started it but likely won`t finish it. I do, however, have a few concluding comments before I take my final bow (or am booed off-stage). (1) I personally don`t think Jonesboy meant the term "butthurt" in a sexual way. (2) Butthurt is a very vivid word. A Bum doesn`t need to start out in an erotic frame of mind to end up with unpleasant and unwelcome (to some) images in mind. The denotative dictionary definition having to do with insults is really a metaphor for actual literal butt hurt. How does one get one`s butt hurt? There`s only a limited number of ways and I hope we never have legitimate cause to discuss any of them in the course of a thread porportedy dealing with the president of the United States. (3) Taomeow has said she meant her posted reaction to the butthurt comment in a tongue-in-cheek way. She seems to have been making the point that words that conjure images of anal sex have great potential to trigger emotional reactions. The emotional reactions that her post triggered prove that she was right. If I thought she truly meant to be homophobic, I`d be the first person to say so. I do not. (4) Rules need to be clear. At the moment there`s a lack of clarity about the moderation process. The insult policy as written states that name calling is not allowed and yet...Marblehead says that moderators are trying to let us be "self-moderating" ...Dawai says "sticks and stones will break my bones...". So which is it? Right now I`m not certain if reported name calling will result in moderation action or not. Perhaps it`s just my absolutist streak coming to the fore, but I believe the answer should be yes or no.

As one of the many people who`ve PM`d you, let me say publically what I`ve already said privately. Your kindness and care in sharing all kinds of knowledge, tips, and wisdom for these many years has made a great difference to me, and, I`m certain, to many others. Whether or not you ultimately decide to stick around or not, please know that your contribution is mightily appreciated. With gratitude and respect, LL

Karen, I`m just relating how the word "typical liberal" strikes me. It feels contemptuous to me and it`s hard for me to imagine reading it any other way. Could I be wrong? Yes. Is it possible that Taomeow`s counteractions were even more egregiously contemptuous? I`ve no way of knowing as I was not privy to her communications with staff and did not see her now-hidden post that is the subject of so much controversy. How should accusations be handled? Evenhandedly. If we`ve decided as a community that expressions of contempt are not allowed and Taomeow -- or anyone -- is contemptuous anyways, then that incident should be handled exactly like all similar incidents. I count many typical liberals among my friends and could fairly be considered a typical liberal myself. So no, I don`t think the phrase is in and of itself insulting. It starts to feel insulting though when spoken by someone who isn`t a typical liberal. Perhaps Jonesboy meant in a very light way? Just as a statement of fact with no emotional force behind it? I suppose that`s possible. In print though his words feel contemptuous -- to me, presumably to Taomeow, and I`m betting to a lot of folks. If I`m wrong, my apologies. It`s my intention to highlight an issue of moderation, not to attack anyone`s character.

It's not my intention to blame the mods, or anybody for that matter. I think it comes down to deciding whether or not we as a community are willing to let expressions of contempt stand. The problem isn't really that we are discussing Trump. It's that we are attacking each other's character. There's a world of difference between saying "I disagree with you and here's why" and "you are an idiot." The rules seem a little murky to me. Is it OK to make a global assault on the character of another Bum or not? From the way things have been moderated it`s not clear. Perhaps it`s OK to call someone a name Off-Grid and not OK elsewhere? If I call you an Asshat that`s clearly a global expression of contempt. Yes, it`s kind of a cute one. Quasi humorous, even. But still it`s me saying that you, in your essential being, are this bad thing that I feel contempt for. If I call you a "typical liberal" is that also an expression of contempt? Probably not if I say it. I might mean that you are someone who upholds values of social justice and concern for the environmment, for example. But if Jonesboy says it it`s an insult because it`s clear from the context of his posts that he holds people he considers "typical liberals" in contempt. (The adjective "typical," in particular, confirms the contemptuous nature of this slight.) Taomeow appears to have felt insulted when Jonesboy called her a typical liberal, and she was exactly right: Jonesboy intended to malign her character and did so. There`s no doubt in my mind. Did I say I didn`t blame the mods? Maybe I do, a bit. Right now there`s a lack of clarity around the rules. I`d prefer if all reported expressions of contempt were met with swift (but not onerous) justice -- asking the offending member to edit the post or suffer (?) a short suspension. This is not what`s happening. What is happening (or not) isn`t entirely clear and in my opinion deserves clarification.

This is correct. I am sad that both Brian and Taomeow appear to have left the TDB over interpersonal Trump Talk drama. I`d rather have the Trump Talk thread gone -- and those members back. Not that that would happen. In some parallel universe the Trump Thread never happened and those two members are still sharing their wisdom. I find that parallel universe preferable to this one, so full of needless drama. Other Bums have spoken up to say they disagree with my position. They say that there`s value in free discussion and if people get bent out of shape and leave in the process then so be it. They say that I can`t control how this happens and shouldn`t try. Clearly they are right about the can`t control part. LL

What an amazing twist -- a thread intended to suggest that the Trump Talk thread be discontinued has instead become yet another Trump Talk thread. I`m like a guy on the beach with my hands out in front of me thinking I`m going to hold back the tidal wave.

Ok, thanks.

Joe`s many posts on the topic of Taoist cultivation -- breathwork, the microcosmic orbit, and so on -- are helpful and brilliant. It`s so sad that we find ourselves here, wondering if this master of neurological processes and inner alchemy fantasizes about beating Jews with a rubber hose in his spare time. In all fairness, Joe, can you see how we got here? A little bit of anti - Israel talk here, some Holocaust denial there...any thinking person alive to the ways anti-Jewish prejudice has expressed itself historically starts to prick up their ears. Neither of those things, in my mind, are enough to convict. But then you say "I didn`t even say Jews, ffs." It`s as if your winking at your audience. The subtext is that you could have said Jews, in your innermost mind you mean to say Jews, but because you know saying Jews will get you in trouble you aren`t going to say it. And you let us in on your thought processes by saying "I didn`t even say Jews, ffs." If I`ve gotten you wrong Joe, please set me straight. Do you believe the economic evils you often rail against are primarily or disproportionately committed by Jews? If not, please let us know. Is there something about Jewishnesss that you find inherently offensive. I`m prepared to believe that I`m reading you wrong in the above paragraph if you say so. It`s unfortunate that this thread has veered into an attack against another member. But there`s nothing wrong about speaking out against (perceived) bigotry. Indeed, speak out we must. I stand behind TheLerner here.

There`s probably plenty of blame that could be cast in both of these incidents but it`s not my intention to do so in this thread. Also, I don`t wish to comment negatively on the actions of staff who I believe have made a good faith effort to uphold community norms in difficult circumstances. What I am suggesting is that the Off Grid area, and the Trump Talk thread in particular, are hurting the board.

David, I`m not a Flying Phoenix practitioner, so it`s not my response you`re looking for here, but I want to say that I read the post above and like your manner of expressing yourself. LL

Opinions about what constitutes a healthy diet vary widely and, honestly, I`m probably not the guy to ask. Personally, I favor eating meat. When I said to eat "nutritious food" I mostly meant just not living on junk -- Coke, chips, packaged sugar treats, that kind of thing. Sounds like you`re not. From what you`ve said above, it sounds like your challenges are more social than dietary. Not liking to be around people is a very difficult thing. When you feel that way, it can feel better to isolate yourself, to avoid situations where you`d have to talk to people and just generally stay home alone. As tempting as this is, you`ll probably end up feeling worse rather than better just being by yourself. My advice would be to find ways to be with people. It`s sometimes just enough to be out and about in the world even if you don`t speak to anybody. That`s so much better than staying home in order to feel safe. Hope this helps. LL

I`d advise paying attention to the basics. Good sleep habits. Nutritious food. Plenty of exercise, preferably outdoors. Time in nature (see above). Spending time with people who care about you. Following up with medical care / counseling as seems appropriate.

Add my name to the list of people who don`t like the phrase "white privilege". By the way, I am gay and find the phrase "heterosexual privilege" equally offensive. Both terms seem to imply that people with the right amount of melanin in their skin and the correctly gendered partner on their arm are living in a hunky-dory la-la land exempt from the difficulties of life. Obviously that`s not the case. Which is not to deny that some life situations are harder than others. I`m a white guy who grew up in a middle class family with two college-educated parents. Right off the bat that gives me some advantages over someone born in a black ghetto to a single mom. Let`s say that I want to provide that ghetto-born child with some extra educational opportunities and a healthy free lunch. Does that make me a pussy? A pussified and emasculated white male? It does not. It makes me a human being.

Hi everybody! I've been checking this board regularly for some time, and finally decided to come out of lurking status. You guys have given me lots of inspiration to try new things--aneros, key sound multiple orgasms, sundo (thanks Trunk), clubbells, etc. Have been playing around with healing tao oriented stuff for awhile now--meditation workshop here, tai chi class there--but have yet to establish a truly consistent daily practice or go 100 days without ejaculating (I know, I know, this is a bad idea but hey Ive gotten it stuck in my brain and cant get it out). I'm an experience junkie and weekend meditation warrior, always up for trying something extreme to change my consciousness. Once went to a 3 month silient Vipassana retreat. Walked 400 miles in Spain to Santiago de Compostela. But its the small, cumulative, little practices done overtime that always throw me. Ok, this is me. Looking forward to what I hope will be a long and fruitful taobums career.

Taomeow, Let me be the first to assure you that almost nobody resolves not to eat gluten for eight months and then proceeds to happily do so without a hitch. I probably have a biased view, but you strike me as someone who regularly does extraordinary things and hangs out with people who regularly do extraordinary things. Your meditation teacher is likely the greatest living Taoist master alive today; your Tai Ji teacher a lineage holder. With this kind of company, it`s easy to forget that most of us require temptations far less potent than imported French foie gras and Italian bruschetta to slip off our diets. LL

Seeing it as less of a big deal sounds great. I think that`s often how the "graduation" you mentioned you wanted in your opening post often happens. It`s not that there`s any great insight or transformation, we just grow into seeing something that previously bothered us as "less of a big deal." I don`t know if it`s any comfort, but feeling like you`re different from other people, like you`re an alien, etc, is very common. In fact, I`d say if you feel different from other people that in itself is evidence that you`re not -- you probably have something in common with all the other people who feel just as different and isolated as you do. Which isn`t to say that you aren`t also unique. It`s just that a lot of people are walking around with some version of feeling different or alien or isolated, and that feeling is part of the spectrum of feelings that humans experience. For better or worse, feeling alien isn`t really as alien as it feels -- it`s achingly human.

Musicians aren`t spiritual? That`s news to me.

Sometimes the wisest course is to drop the attachment to dropping attachments and simply move on.

Thanks Taomeow. Auspiciously perhaps, I`ve recently recommitted to my diet plan, a major pillar of which is avoiding all sugars (other than some in fruit and, well, chocolate). I do have weight to lose and so far, so good. I`m with you about the fat, too -- won`t touch "low fat" dairy products. I never considered that the same production shenanigans applied to chocolate.

Taomeow, Gosh, this sounds stormy. I`m already working on my diet and this has inspired me to include more high antioxidant foods. Not hard considering dark chocolate and blueberries make the grade -- yum! Wondering if there`s any generic advice as far as approaching personal development. Qi gong practices that are especially relevent for the year? Aspects of the self to pay particular attention to? Qualities to cultivate? I suspect that this kind of thing is specific to a person`s chart but if there are any overarching themes that would benefit most people, and you feel like sharing, I`d be all ears. LL

It was TheLerner who figured out the Saluki thing a few posts ago; I just piggybacked on his observation. I admire how dogged you are in your determination to suss out the breed.