gendao

Check out Joseph's (Feng Zhiqiang's disciple) fajins at 1:03: But do not check out a hippie in a pink T-shirt's...

I could interpret the first line of the Dao De Jing (道可道, 非常道) as: "The concept of the way, is not the actual way." IOW, the concept of Dao...is not the real Dao. Concepts are but fingers pointing to the moon. No thoughts or concepts are real, but just perceptions or representations like drawings or photos. And no matter how accurate a photo is, it is still not the real thing. (If you don't believe me, try having sex with a photo of Megan Fox.) That's (one reason) why we empty our minds in meditation. Because the whole purpose of meditation is to delve into the true nature of reality. And since thoughts are NOT REAL, they should not be dwelled upon. You must look past all "illusions" and seek direct experience/being. Or...the very essence of Ch'an/Zen... Which also happens to be the opening line of the Dao De Jing.

Damn, that's hardcore.. *yikes* Anyways, I just found this interesting cross-reference to regional dragons controlling rain: Boy, I'll bet Bill Bodri would sure love to hear this story!

Interesting, thanks. However, it doesn't sound like they are paying for "control," so much as GOOD SEX. Which makes sense. There may be an oversupply of sex out there for women...but GOOD sex may be in far shorter supply (and hard to just find randomly). As they say, a woman would rather have 5% of a stud than 100% of a dud... I mean, let's say a woman wants good sex. How could she really tell if a guy can give her that...without having to try him out first? What kind off indicators might she look for? Maybe that's why women love cocky bad boy players who sleep around a lot - they assume that as some evidence that he's likely decent in bed.

I agree. Hence, I can only *shudder* to think of the kind of woman who DOES have to pay for it! Or even for just a date. Seriously, any woman could put a profile up on any dating site and get a few offers trickling in per week even if she was butt-fugly. I dated an attractive girl once who told me her inbox on one of those sites got flooded by like 50 messages a week or something. Or was it day?

無極 wuji

Haven't had time to post a full review of my workshop experience last year yet (been super busy!)...but here's a brief synopsis in the meantime.. If you are looking for a quick, fly-by-night, faddish, New Age shortcut that promises everything for nothing...then this art is probably not for you. At least not yet. Maybe later when many of these alleged "shortcuts" turn out to be scenic detours instead... Remember, if it sounds too good to be true...better check twice! Now, if you are looking for a method deriving from an authentic "Old School" lineage that's been time-tested safe and effective for longterm use...then you may want to check this system out. Jing Dong Gong jives with classic Chinese neidan and has a lot of safety measures built-in to boot. Pretty much all the theoretical and practical viewpoints that Michael has expressed mesh with what I've heard or read from other authentic qigong masters. There is also an emphasis on how much time & effort you realistically need to put in to attain real gong fu. Students are not deluded by easy promises or magical shortcuts. You get what you put in, as it is with most endeavors in real life. All of which I feel creates a stronger basic foundation and a safer, sustainable practice & framework. Ironically, in the long run, the long route may actually be the shortest shortcut... Even here on this board, anyone who has achieved anything worth talking about...probably put in at least a few hundred hours of meditation over a year or more to do it. Now, many New Age methods don't require you to do a lot of meditation and self-cultivation. But I personally think that's a lazy mistake that may become more evident with time due to either lack of progress or declining health.

Or at least, not easily for the type of women who would have to pay for a date/sex...

Well, if you're looking for a lifelong ball & chain...then I agree. Increasingly unlikely in today's post-feminist (after feminism took effect) era. All metrics are trending away from this. Marriage down, divorce up and almost half of American babies are now born to single baby mamas. So, good luck if that's what you're after. If you're more open to less-committed casual liaisons though, those are far more popular today. Again, all of these issues and concerns have already all been addressed on numerous PU forums, though.

You make it sound too 1-sided, with the woman always getting ripped off because she gets nothing out of it. When in fact, the woman could get the same or even more out any "relationship" with a man. So to me it's more like you both lay out your cards and if you mutually consent (feel it's symbiotic enough to be worth it)...then you agree to make a deal. If not, then you don't. It's just like any other "deal" you may consider making. They are usually "fair enough" to both parties (minus con jobs)...cuz otherwise the deal wouldn't have been made to begin with. Why don't we reframe this self-limiting belief that "I have nothing to offer a woman and so would only be using her" with "I can offer a woman a great time!"

I have to agree with ShaktiMama here... People are all worried about "abuse of psychic powers"...yet no one here can even beat RANDOM CHANCE on this test. So perhaps any worry is rather premature at this point? Let's see someone score at least double-digits on this test before we worry about them "abusing" that "power."

It's like the old Catch-22 of needing experience to get a job...but how do you get your first job without experience? Everyone faces this at first, yet most everyone eventually successfully passes through it. Success in life is all about turning negative feedback loops into positive feedback loops. Yes, the hardest part is always reversing spin and getting it started in the opposite direction. But, you just have to pass through a "backdoor" gray transition area to do it. Just like the Taiji symbol shows - there's a little of the other in either extreme...

I took a seminar with Fong Ha before..He definitely has great rooting and peng structure - with the puzzling immovability that seems beyond mere physics. However, I don't think it's an ability you can pick up in a weekend, although he reduces it to just "maintaining your equilibrium." Which seemed like circular logic though and didn't really help me understand the skill or mechanism any. If any of his longer students have...please let me know! But his actual training method basically includes lots of Yiquan zhan zhuang and Taiji Ruler qigong.

Interestingly, Pandora was actually based on Zhangjiajie National Forest in China: Ha, I knew something looked familiar about it!

Mike surprised me with a VERY powerful, detailed and informative response: Makes sense...thank you! *deep bow*

Wow, some very, very interesting info there! Would have been very useful in some older debates... So, I wonder how or why uniting the 1st (root) chakra with the 6th (3rd eye) chakra creates entities? Very fascinating connection though - which is why real traditional knowledge can still be so valuable. Time-tested ancient wisdom can help connect dots and add verification for us less-experienced n00bs today. And I also wonder if PC pumping really generates energy from scratch...or perhaps just transmutes jing into qi? Anyhow, wudangquan has noted before that in order to break through your current paradigm, you must keep increasing the pressure (and minimize leakage to do so). Until at some point, the system will either break down from that higher pressure (FAIL)...or finally push you out of the box to the next level (SUCCESS!).

Do you still feel that you gain energy, though? Basically, I'm trying to isolate specifically what it is that makes you feel like you gain energy. You don't require a man or toy, so the question now is if you require an orgasm too? And if not - then it appears to result solely from PC flexing? (And I wonder if that would work for guys too?) PS - I thought sahajoli was a form of male SKF, tho?

Nature is survival of the fittest and organisms do what they have to to survive. And yes, deviousness (guerilla warfare) can be one of those strategies. You may not like it, but you can learn to accept it as evolutionary hard-wiring - without taking it too personally. Look, people are still robotic slaves to their biological instincts that evolved over millions of years - not to mention a lifetime of societal programming. So that's not all just going to fly out the window simply once they meet YOU. Anyhow, I don't know why you're so down on PU, because it evolved exactly to help a whole generation of post-feminist "AFCs" like you. The founders studied a lot of evo-pysch and reverse-engineered mating strategies of successful "naturals." They field-tested various methods to isolate core principles that actually worked through trial-and error and the process of elimination. So, a million other guys in that community have already had all the same questions and inner conflicts as you. And many answers have now been found! You are hardly unique, so why reinvent the wheel here? At its basis, PU is all about holistic self-improvement and improving your interpersonal skills. Which are going to help your life both personally and professionally, irrespective of dating women. Which all in turn is going to improve your prospects with dating women, irrespectively. So, it basically generates a POSITIVE feedback loop in your life (thus reversing the NEGATIVE AFC loop). Now, how cool is that? Anyhow, I like that you can at least stand up for yourself with some fire in your belly. Getting righteously angry at least shows that you have the honesty and balls to admit the problem and DEMAND BETTER for yourself. Many AFCs never even get that far because their self-esteem is so damn low that they feel they simply deserve whatever they get (or don't get) in life. Which is too bad because many of them are genuinely good guys. The road to the Promised Land is not a short one, though. It's a long process of introverted self-analysis and external feedback. So, I think you may spend another year or so venting and thoroughly analyzing this conundrum. Then, you will accept it as-is and start learning some personal countermeasures (PU or other self-help). Give that some time to marinate for about a year or so and then gradually start applying some of it to your actual life. Eventually, you will notice few results but as you get over the learning curve, you will start reaping some dividends and payback. And after that, you will just keep building on your momentum and enjoy the POSITIVE FEEDBACK LOOP YOU've now created! So, you got a ways to go...but you're on the right path and fortunately, time is on your side. Just be dilligent and patient. PU already has thousands of success stories of guys just like YOU. Yes, YOU can do it, but only YOU can for yourself...

Just curious what the promised endgames are for these 2 arts? For example, with Kunlun it is the fabled "Gold Dragon Body" jalus. With more traditional Chinese neidan, it is the opening of the microcosmic/macrocosmic orbits, chong mai (kundalini)...and eventually a yang shen jalus. Indian systems usually include the kundalini awakening and "enlightenment." Many "milder" qigong forms simply promise better health and longevity. (Now these overgeneralizations may be abbreviated and not entirely accurate, but I just meant them as examples.) The question being what goals do Maoshan Spirit Fighting & Celestial Nei Kung specifically aim towards or promise?

Let me give you guys some simple advice here. If you are interested in Longmen Pai (and most of the Chinese neidan systems in general), you better start practicing sitting in lotus. I don't think there's much avoiding it. Because from what I can tell so far, that's the basic foundation for most of them and you won't get very far otherwise. And if you can't stand "mind-numbingly" sitting still (at least just cross-legged) for long periods of time, then you're probably not going to hack it here. I'm not saying there couldn't be workarounds or loopholes, but if you're a healthy adult, it will probably be your most efficient way. As the Chinese say, you have to eat bitter to taste sweet... In fact, even Kunlun Level 3...is also done while sitting in lotus. So, this "torturous" pose may be harder to "escape" than many might think! Well, at least I'm sure drewhempel would probably kick ass in this...like a duck to water, lol!

Awesome, thanks! I wonder how critical those shichen periods are, though? That works out to 2-4 hours daily. But what if you just did the same amount of meditation all in the morning, per se? Ryan - Heat from or the dantian vibrating is a very good sign that your MCO is on its way to opening. It's too bad you cracked, cuz you were probably getting close to the firing point. Maybe with another few weeks... No biggy, you can't be far off then so I'm sure you can get there again.

Have you heard anywhere of how many HOURS PER DAY are assumed in these 100 day "bootcamps?" That can make a HUGE difference in practice time, yet I haven't found that info anywhere yet...? The lower dantian is a hub where all 8 extraordinary channels (which includes the Du & Ren Mai) connect to...which then connect to the 12 main meridians. So, the idea is that as you fill the dantian up, it spills over into the 8 reservoirs, which then feed the 12 rivers. But since all of that happens naturally, all you have to do is just keep focusing on the dantian. Then everything else will fill up in the right order at the right time.

I agree, for all the ideological mental masturbation here, it's these fundamental "real world" questions that really HIT HOME. I wish I knew too. I am just learning to feel qi, much less being able to distinguish between yin & yang qi and the actual properties/functions of both. I do know that yang qi is used more to purify in healing and in neidan to create the yang shen light body. However, I am not too clear on what yin qi is for? Or how to tell the difference between or cultivate either?

And actually, even if you had a perfect upbringing, you'd probably still have tons of blockages from ancestral and past life causes... In fact, our big deep ones are usually from those prenatal sources. BTW, I basically have no kriyas or external reactions anymore when doing Kunlun now - what about everyone else? I may feel energetic sensations in me, but that's it. No more flapping arms, primal screaming or rambling jibberish, lol.