Trunk

Howdy, @BalefulSun, Admin, here. OFFICIAL STATEMENT (trumpets, streamers) Yeah, I also don’t think that your original idea is going over well, and I agree let’s put the kahbosh on it. Fine to keep it for yourself. Fine to have something similar in your own personal practice section here on-site. cheers, Trunk (changes out of official admin’s cape, hat, tights)

Hello! I am the admin here at TheDaoBums. I sent you a private message re: this, but you didn’t respond… We have another member with the name “Flowing Hands” (including the space) and you are “FlowingHands”. Do you mind picking another online name, so it’s not confusing between the two of you? You can respond to me here or via private message. I’d like to take care of that and approve your account. Then, of course, you can post your cultivation manual or any other internal arts conversation that you’d like to share. - Trunk

hey-oh, A while back I bought what I call a "belt buzzer". https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08R9X7Q6C I'm not clear on the terminology, TENS unit, I think? Anyway this sends buzzing patterns of electrical shock through the abdomenal area and can be worn during chores, resting, or exercise (think, "pilates", etc). My interest in this, and why I think it's relevant to this forum: From a therapeutic standpoint (whether medical, emotional, opening the tissues & channels, etc) one of the more difficult areas to really excavate well (and too often neglected) are the layers of the abdomen. All the layers of tissue, organ etc. The buzzing, I find, is remarkable in micro-activating musculature through the layers as well as circulation. And it's super convenient. - Trunk

I met Leo Lok through the online community more than 20 years ago. He was aware of TheDaoBums, but was pursuing various serious professional-level studies in the area of Chinese Medicine - and primarily related in that community and in service to his patients. I find Leo to be remarkably humble and kind, as well as very serious scholar and medical professional. I offer his video presentations of historical texts to TheDaoBums community on his behalf. - Trunk Leo Lok (M.Ac.O.M), a native speaker of Chinese languages, is one of the rare clinician-scholars in the world who excels in researching and translating ancient Chinese medical literature into the English language. For the past seven years, as an avid contributor of the 6180-member-group: Scholars of Chinese Medicine on Facebook, Leo has helped research and answered more than two thousand questions on the historical development, interpretations and translations of Chinese medical topics for colleagues worldwide. His track record all these years has been well preserved in Scholars of Chinese Medicine for the world to benefit from. Anyone who is interested in following his digital footprints on these various topics is welcome to join the group. First is the Qi Emission Therapy class: This is a 23-minute, 8-part video course on Qi Emission Therapy, also called External qigong or Medical qigong or Wàiqì Liáofǎ 外气疗法 in modern Chinese. If you’re ever curious about how qigong therapy was delivered in the last 1400 years in premodern China, you will love this class. This class presents the historical textual accounts of five daoist healers and their Qi Emission Therapy stories between the 11th and the 18th century. They treated children, adults, ordinary people and royalty. The illnesses they helped healed include cataracts, lower limb disability, tuberculosis and terminal illnesses. And finally, for the prerequisites and technical training of ‘Qi Emission Therapy’, we examine protocols from two qi cultivation manuals from the Tang dynasty (7th - 9th century). I will read to you many of these passages aloud in Mandarin Chinese followed by their English translations for the first time in history. Please join me to find out more! I’d love to have you in my class! https://vooma.thinkific.com/courses/qi-emission?ref=b202a2 $9.99

Often referred to here at TheDaoBums as DGS. Introduction here: https://alchemicaltaoism.com/DGSReviews.htm and here and here, the method often referred to as KYMQ and here DGS youtube channel https://www.youtube.com/user/longmenpai and a couple of essays that include introductions to a couple of his methods in this external blog (that has a broader, more generic purpose) https://johndaoproductions.wordpress.com/ How's that for "too much information"? - Trunk

Jumping in here a bit. I'm the admin here, and just had a few thoughts - nothing radical. As far as rules on this sort of thing, I honestly don't recall at the moment exactly what I've nailed down on this previously. This topic prompts me to review, clarify. ... but meat-life is very demanding right now, lol. The intent here seems clean enough. So, for now, just a few non-enforceable casual thoughts ... - The internet is full of so much pirating, right out in the open or "trading/sharing" behind the scenes. I'm sure we'd all rather the $ goes to those who put in the labor producing the product. (And I know that that was @BambooUnion's first attempt. I'm not shaking a finger at anyone.) So, there's that. - Plus the value of the rapport, relationship, with a teacher that might develop over time. So, until I get rules clarified on this, I'm just casually discouraging it on a friendly basis. And I kinda think that everyone in this thread is pretty much in that place already, so no biggie. pardon the interruption, Trunk

@cloud444 I don't know what would be best for you... just offering thoughts that might/might not be right for you. Probably you need a variety of effective help. Some people find bone broth to be heat-clearing and deeply restorative. You can buy it frozen in many markets these days, then you just add a spoonful of the frozen broth to hot water (or to tea, or to a soup). It's very affordable and has a strong effect. At the least, it's a tool that you should be aware of. - Keith

Done. Curious what the translation of your moniker is? I know only scraps, all in doubt (so many nuances), my guesses: wu - emptiness ming - brightness jen - ? - Keith

At this point, it just comes down to experience. I suggest that you experiment with any method along these lines (any very moderate approach to holding breath in the lower regions with focused relaxation). cheers, Keith

In this kind of (mild) breath retention, I feel lower energies that are maybe a bit dense (adamant, maybe a little stuck) become more pliable, more 'kind', cooler. Those feelings happen spontaneously, as a result of the method. Feelings are not imagined nor asserted. Only being present and doing the breathing.

... in any order i like ... Just as a reminder (at least for myself), I'm talkin' about any approach that: extremely generally - brings the breath low into the abdomen - with the addition of focused steadied awareness The basic meditation (taught in virtually every meditation hall everywhere) of "following the breath" with one's attention is the fundamental example of the above. (and does a lot, just with that simple method) variation of holding the breath - relaxing around the hold (without losing focus) - only holding for as long as relaxing is sustainable (not tensing, not straining) "And what kind of dangers are there with this?" Well, this sort of approach is designed to avoid the typical dangers: 1. The higher centers are *much* easier to open; the lower (solar plexus down) are notoriously difficult (unless you made it through puberty~adolescence with no major tangles and developed efficiently vis-a-vis natural structure). Some of the major religions, as a result, just shun the lower centers and shoot for the heart ~ crown, but if that higher opening happens it can create a semi-disconnect a disharmony non-optimal integration with the lower vs upper. (Please excuse the stream of thoughts poor grammar). For people for whom the lower centers have integrated well through their phases of life, this might be a total non-issue. And once you've "tasted the sunshine of the sky" (initiation to the non-dual states), your whole body wants to integrate with that. It's more challenging with the lower centers, but the fundamental is that God is in both heaven and earth. The systems that are hip to this (Taoism is notable) train the lower center/s in a diligent detailed long term way, often as preliminary to opening the upper centers. (Jeez I'm blabbling here, not sure what you even asked, lol any more lol) Ok, so there is the broad concept of Kan & Li (water & fire, respectively)... basically mixing opposities, plunging fire below water and it is interpreted many different ways in different methods. In this case "fire" (the upper energy) is the breath (and anything that might be carried down with it, such as the magic ingredient: *focused* *awareness*, plus any other higher-up-stuff). so breath is plunged down as low as it can go. Fire is plunged down into water (any of the lower energies, interpreted broadly). This makes water more supple and kind (less stubborn, less adamant), more nourishing harmonious for health or whatever. It's a basic principle & step (underlying many methods) that integrate upper & lower (both above/below the diaphragm as well as the larger heaven ~ man ~ earth integration). Ok, so that's one danger, that this basic approach avoids. However, 2. I'd say that *any* approach brought to extreme is dangerous. So, again (man, this sounds like a con or an ad for something, lol) ... the advice (in this approach, and in general in qigong): - don't max out. This is not pushups, not weight lifting, the kinesthetic rules are different. 70% is the typical safetey rule people say around here. Damo Mitchell has a pretty interesting variation on this idea in his recently posted "stilling the jing" method: I'm typed out. Kinda got on a groove, not sure if that's all relevant to what you asked. I'll go back and review your questions again later, remind myself what I've missed. - Keith

Some years ago I slogged through "Meeting the Shadow". It's a bunch of essays on "the shadow" by a wide variety of heavies (Jung, Bly, etc) with each section covering varying arenas: personal, family, societal, religion, etc etc. It was quite extensive, broad. Somewhat laborious to get through but worth while; the established concepts continue to be useful. https://www.amazon.com/Meeting-Shadow-Hidden-Power-Nature/dp/087477618X/ p.s. Pardon me, just jumping in late, here in this thread - I might be saying stuff that was covered previously.

I hold the breath as low as possible. Anywhere below the belly button; hui yin is a popular destination. I don't do much pushing, pulling, clamping down etc. Not much overt muscular work, mild that way. It's not muscling things around. Considerably more 'work' on opening and relaxing, over all, not clenching etc. > If I keep it retained around my chest, my heart will become very active (sometimes uncomfortably) > That's the danger for that space.

Exploring extremes in qigong is often counter-productive (injurious, to varying degrees). It's a very different kinesthetic approach than weight lifting, running... basically all the 'usual' modes of exercise. in qigong, at least what I've observed on this board ... and my own opinion Kind of a loose concensus is that any pressurizing not past 70%. Also, for breath retention, I do it in a relaxed state. Meaning, I inhale, hold and relax around the held breath. That allows alchemy to occur with the breath n' body. Same on the exhale. Once I start tensing up, the alchemy stops. just my 3 cents. best of luck, Trunk

Browsing Lama Jampa's youtube playlists, he has a 7-video playlist entitled "The Stages of the Path: from Refuge the the Vajrayana". I'm impressed enough with this guy that I'm writing out this post before seeing the playlist myself ... and ashamed enough of that to at least start watching the first video before I click 'submit reply'. p.s. Watching the first video on refuge. Lama Jampa strikes me as talking in a really common relatable way & words, no non-sense, not (so far) romantic idealized spirituality, but at the same time it feels~sounds like both his historical and religious training is serious, technical and deep. He covers a lot of ground quickly, but each point is made relatable and clear in some way, within the limits of brevity. Wow, just wow.

Coming back to watch the rest of the video. This guy, Lama Jampa Theya: *wow*. Resonates as very well educated historian (+ T.Buddhist educated) who speaks no-nonsense. Really enjoying this. Subscribed to his channel on youtube. Thank you @Apech! https://lamajampa.org/

(Apologies if I'm repeating what others have already written; I haven't read all previous posts.) First of all, just to recognize that there are a number different modes, phases, of experiencing awareness~identity. And it's not a matter of rigidly always shooting for one as 'the right/best', but becoming more aware of the variety and their relation. ... and that the overall general direction is towards more complete and more fluent integration. One term that I find useful is "yi" meaning, "focus of awareness". Several varieties, not a complete list. - Generally we start with somewhat diffuse yi and top-down (up in our heads). - "Following the breath" (and variations) meditations train our attention to travel vertically up & down within the torso, and the breath acts as a go-between to help integrate awareness with the body. Also, adding awareness to breath sparks the qi of the lungs throughout the body... just this simple practice does a lot to activate and blend. This progresses in myriad schools ways/methods (hatha yoga, breathing into stretching areas, etc), moving & refining energies, layers of the body, and perhaps a culmination is some kind of whole body breathing. (Just to broadly refer to a huge amount of material in one sentence.) - There are very focused methods of working with yi. Placing your attention in specific focused location/s. I would suggest that the simplest and most useful approach to this is to have a small sphere-like focus that refines energy (aka "pearl"), at still places along the center-line. (There are also several potent other places such as kidney 1, center of palm.) But the potent still places along the vertical center line tap into the nerve plexuses and hormonal ladder, as well as the deeper spiritual potent points that help to keep the body together in advanced practices. Reference free artsy essay here. - Often yi is moved slowly and repeatedly between two potent points to help activate and integrate their natural polarities. Much of energetic layout is summed up as a series of resonant polarites separated by semi-permeable membranes. Things degrade as those connections degrade. Integration keeps 'em alive. Some substantial portion of qigong is activating these sort of magnetic polarities. (And, more deeply, going into the non-dual.) That was kind of an all-over-the-place overview. Hopefully is was more helpful than confusing. Best of luck, Keith

Uh... that it feels good?? I don't know of any classic references on this ... though "The Art of the BedChamber" by Douglas Wile is a compilation of classic texts and may be of some use.

Most of the time I log in via my desktop PC, but sometimes iPad, more rarely iPhone ... so far no mishaps - but I don't post often (and mostly from my desktop).

Wow. What diligent and focused study and practice! I know only a little bit of the channels & vessels of Chinese medicine and that lack has sometimes put me up to a brick wall of understanding some complex subjects (like finger-knitting mudras) deeply. I've often thought that we need a generation of students who are more deeply trained in Chinese medicine, who then apply it to deeper internal arts training... just what you are doing! Very cool. I can't comment on the absolute accuracy of what you're saying, because you're beyond my knowledge-set - but I can say that study, practice, experience over time add up (just like in any subject) so keep at it. I'm just sitting here impressed. My own approach is very simple (I can't help with the complexities that you are delving into), but maybe my approach could assist with some aspect (maybe it's just me mouthing off, lol). My approach to the chakras is very simple: enter, abide, and dissolve in the "deep-centers" (the still quiet spaces where major centers intersect sushumna). Explained in my picture-book-style essay Enso, Emptiness and the Deep-centers. Very concisely summarized in this triptych. As far as mantra, just a simple version of the mani mantra. Not sure if it will be relevant, appropriate, just throwing it out there. Anyway, a pleasure to read of your vigorous study, practice and breakthroughs! Congrat's on the sleep resolution, impressive. - Keith

Obviously not a gimmick. Interesting to see the progression over time. To see it go from more effortful, more chunky, to more smooth and fluent - which is a progression that many of us can relate to (even when doing much less dramatic practices). I think about myself, when I started into the internal arts, I was young strong male in my 20's and my physical fitness background was typical western. It took a long time to un-learn that the things that weight lifting taught me was 'power' ... all the feelings and body training of what that was ... would only get me into trouble in the internal arts, that 'power' development in the internal arts was profoundly different. It took a while for me to get that both conceptually and in my body. I think it's typical, but less of a problem nowadays as many quality teachers have emerged since the 1980's. edit: Touches on topics of: What is power, and the basis of power, how does it feel, in the internal arts? The trigram of ‘lake’. What is effort / no effort? (It takes a lot of work and a long time to go from effort to no effort.) In any case, thanks again for sharing! Really educational.

Thank you for sharing. Really enjoyed the video.

One of the best under-used features here at TDBs!

First off: I'm generally supportive of the idea of there being other internal arts discussion sites, a balanced variety. I think that TDB's has a semi-monopoly and that's an unhealthy situation, imo. I'd prefer OD (and any variety of others) to flourish. And the above is what happens when hostile forces are allowed unchecked: the cool people just quietly leave (and we're lucky if they check back later) and potential new members, the kind we'd really dig, just don't join at all. I'm not for letting banned former members back willy-nilly. As far as process and specifics, I prefer to work out most of the details in private with staff... However, I also value community input here in the public spaces. - Trunk

For those undecided: A flowchart to help you choose your religion.