Trunk

Solution: one pointed awareness unified with overall awareness link 1 link 2

Ari (a young friend of mine) was giving a poetry reading, and there was a party afterwards at JoAnna's house. JoAnna was saying that when she was pregnant she used to have a blended drink: tomato juice & tobasco (or one of those spiced tomato juices) an egg organic chicken liver I just drove to the store, made it, with parsley and broccoli thrown in. (The ch.liver comes frozen, so I sawed off a chunk with the bread knife, then put the rest in the freezer.) * Finishing it right now. * I've a hunch that it could be a good restorative after the clay. The oils (cod liver, fish oil, etc) have been helping, but they haven't seemed to be really "it" to restore what the clays dried out. And, don't get me wrong, the clays have made a huge contribution in a good way for me. My tissues & channels are more open, and breathing is better as a result. So I'm definately not anti-clay! btw, In the Chinese herbal materia medica all of the herbs listed have contraindications, and are almost always given in combination with other herbs that balance the approach. ~ later ~ Maybe I'll get some other organ meat/s to add to the blend.

Well put. Really important. From Michael Winn, who uses a similar approach but he does it with the five organs (elements). That never made sense, never felt right to me ... I always felt that when he said "kidney shen" that I felt the lower center/s and when he said "heart shen" that I felt the heart center, and that the rest of the organ shen (lungs liver spleen) I could somewhat connect to in terms of Chinese medical energetics, but not as consciousnesses. That's my feelings of my own body. (Later edit: I freely admit that it's possible that the organ shen exist, that's just not what I've found in my own body thus far.) Gurdjieff and Ouspensky seem to be at least somewhat on the same page as what I feel in my body. They sometimes use the phrase "three-brained being", or something like that. There are ultimately more centers (like in the Hindu and Tibetan systems) but three is a good place to start, most easily felt. The topic came up within the community in connection with, of course, the sexual practices. That the upper center would boss around the energies of the lower center, really without the agreement (or harmony) of the lower center - and that, after some years of this, the lower center would launch a major rebellion. Pietro is doing a good job of showing the decent-human version of pua, and other points along that line - I know only a very little about that community. I knew there was a "shen" angle on it, but had to really chew on it for a while before I could write that previous post. Glad my meanderings are occasionally helpful.

Advice: 1. Go see a TCM practitioner. At least some of what you have going on a TCMer will spot right away and be able to help. 2. Don't do retention, it's very advanced and - done wrong (link) - will only make your situation worse. 3. If I were you, I'd do some self-acupressure, hindu squats, and gentle lower tan tien breathing. On a regular basis. Just an over-simplified assessment: Your kidney energy is deficient, and your liver qi is stuck. The thing is, you can't restore the kidneys easily because the stuck energy is blocking the way. So, you need to gradually do things to resolve the stuck energy and then nourishment will naturally circulate in and restore. If you try semen retention, it'll just make the stuck situation much worse. Trunk

(clay meanderings pulled private notes) I'm cautious about the clay, even terramin. (Still, obviously, some really good stuff but... focusing on the "but" right now.) 1. What is it leaching out, aside from toxins? Definately some moisture, juiciness, dries out the channels. Does it leach out some nutrients that then results in cravings? I found that, even after just one terramin tablet, that I started reaching for adzuki beans and such - things that I craved when I was taking too much clay, earlier. I have caution that it's leaching out some nutrients that we haven't identified yet, and that results in the cravings, and then we take more clay and get more cravings. (I don't know about this, I'm just tossing out theories right now.) While I like a lot of the other effects, I'm also cautious about the drying. I'm taking oils along with the clay, but I don't know if that's a really healthy balance ... I don't think it really compensates for the drying. I mean, if you take an extreme drying thing and a remedy, it's not really like you never took the drying thing - you're just hurting yourself and applying a remedy ... it's still rough on the system. Also, are oils the right remedy?, .. the optimal remedy? Are there some other supplements (vitamins or ??), or herbs (maybe jing tonics?), that would better complement the clays? I find myself farting a little (a sign of weakened digestion), from taking a bunch of oils. So, now I have a slight imbalance from taking the oils! sheesh! I think there's definately some more fine tuning to do, on this topic. I'm going to back off to small doses, 2-3 times a week (not daily). Trunk ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Like, now I'm craving steak. I mean crrrrrr-aving it!, and it's 4 o'clock in the morning! What's up with that? Is the clay exposing parts of me that just need more nourishment? Is it driving nourishment in deeper, so - on the outside - I need more? Is it leaching out (well, we know it's doing that)? Some combo of the above? ~~~~~~~~~~~~ I still really like the good parts of what I'm getting out of clay...

"bliss and emptiness conjoined"

from the stats at the bottom of TTBs main page: Holy macaroni!

Welcome, Tom! I've never been to Maine, but 've seen John Lurie and William Dafoe go ice fishing on a frozen lake in a Fishing with John episode. Brrrrr. So.California is blazing hot right now. I had to keep switching hands yesterday because my steering wheel was so hot. Trunk

Rob, Welcome. Strong point. Trunk

My thoughts on center theory (link) re: this. Just taking simple 3 center layout: wisdom, love, power. The different centers have different aesthetics (what they like to do). For an over simplified, on the surface example, the mind likes to play chess and meditate, the lower center wants to fuck and go for a run. They like different sorts of things, and have different agendas. Add to this that the distribution of consciousness amongst the centers varies, as a general configuration for a certain individual, and as that person's moods change. Meaning, also, that a couple of centers might be relatively asleep, while another is 'awake' and employing volition (running the show) mostly by it's own aesthetics and agenda. I think that most people can relate to some degree of that vis-a-vis the three centers. A healthy mature balanced person has more fluency amongst the centers. A healthy well rounded life, likewise. Part of the path of awakening, and just the challenge of maturing as a human being, is for each of the centers not only to awaken, but awaken in relative balance. I'm sure that if you think of a few of the distinct characters in your life, in terms of each of their three centers: awakeness, relative awakeness, whether the centers are communicating with eachother, whether there is a balanced lifestyle that supports all the centers of that person. In patterns of dysfunctional center relationships, one center actively circumvents, blocks other centers, and absconds with the locus of consciousness and volition. To some degree this is just very common, the shifting of center-emphasis depending on the activity. Most people's lower center is not fluently awake, much less Awake. Ok, so, to the pua scene. They've mapped the aesthetics of the instinctual (lower center) female, and play to that. Meanwhile the woman's upper centers are distracted or placated or roll-played so that the lower center aesthetics can worked without her upper-center interfering. After a while her lower center takes over. Pua's would get a lot further if they found an integral way to awaken their own centers, because most of what an afc is, is heart and head mildly awake, and an asleep, unintegrated lower center. The "evil pua's" have over-emphasized the lower center as the home of consciousness and have - to an unbalanced degree - abandoned the upper center aesthetics. Comes down to really basic stuff, that really no one in the pop-Taoist world has worked out (as far as I know). So the pua at least gives the lower center the lifestyle that it instincutally wants, and that makes it happy and brings it online to some degree. But real awakeness and integration?, I don't see it in that community. A common pattern of disorder among spiritual aspirants results from the fact that it's easier to Awaken the upper center/s. Once the upper center/s Awaken it (often) ignites a very strong latent imperative to fully Awaken the whole body (all centers). The problem is that the lower centers typically Awaken later, and it's very, very difficult to find effective training in the process. I think, in traditional coming - of - age rituals, have to do with acknowledging not only the aesthetics of the lower center, but also the consciousness of the lower center: to acknowledge it and wake it up. I'd say that center awakeness is a spectrum... from asleep, to sort of dimly acting, to healthy mundane awake, to really Awake. And, it's probably safe to say, that most people have only one center awake at a time - and that communication amongst centers is generally not fluent. As with most things, when you really get down to taking a close look, it's a mess. The Fourth Way (link) by P.D. Ouspensky (one of Gurdjieff's students) has some information somewhat along these lines. It has a very precision, very harsh perspective on how difficult it is to awaken the centers - and largely on that basis it's a very interesting read.

To me, no biggie if it turns out to be a mistake (which is quite possible, and no teacher is perfect at all parts of life & teaching). The selling point is that the vibe that is coming through the site is very high vibe. You can't fake that. The guy has ability, period. Whether he is adept at teaching that to others remains to be seen, whether it's a safe method for most people, whether it's profound enough and the students get skillful understanding... who knows. But - again, for me - it's clear that it'd be an extraordinary Light experience to be in a weekend workshop/intensive with this guy.

Yup. Sonne's is very harsh. Two days maximum, at no more than recommended dose. I think it's legitamate use is with one or two of the three doses of psyllium, to pull the mucoid plaque off of the intestinal walls. (Or one, maybe two, days by itself as a strong detoxicant.) Then oil up afterward, and LTT breathe to push the oil into the tissues and channels (that've been potentially dried out by Sonne's). I'm on Terramin and oils, in the morning of the second day, and I can tell you that it's a lot, lot better. I'm feeling (the beginning of) what I was hoping the more moderate clays would be like. Calm-yummmmmm. Kudos and thanks to Agharta for turning us on to clays.

Pietro's points are really well spoken, and from serious background of extensive education. I would also add that I think you would lose most serious-thinking people who ever took a high school level biology course. I'm not saying that the claims are absolutely false, but unbelievable enough to lose credibility. And my impression is that you are sincere, and that Max is sincere and capable, and I want you to do well - for everyone's benefit.

Similar to my experience of Sonne's. It has seriously powerful leaching power, and of more than just water - I'd wager. I drank a ton of water during my colonblow+, and more than usual after, plus watermelon, pineapple, figs... still didn't replace my dryness. All that was important, but right now, the oils are what are re-moistening me. Quote from the e-mail that I sent to Yoda, for the community knowledge base:

I think that the posts in this thread demonstrate that he has made a marketing mistake along that line. Some of the things on that site are so unbelievable as to be ... unbelievable. If he could simply trim it back to the "astonishing" level, he would get more students - not drive people away. I think that the people in this thread who think he is sincere and capable think that despite some of his unbelievable claims. Well, at least, that's the case for me. Again, that's a little strong. Why not avoid a mess and just say "it's very rare" instead of "no one"? There are very advanced (crazy-advanced like you-won't-believe-it) teachers teaching in an open-door style ... it's just that they tend to be lesser known, and usually not fully within a traditional lineage format on the outter, but are sometimes fully aligned on the inner. These are wild times. I know. Advice you didn't ask for. Just my two cents.

I received my terramin tablets, and sample packets of powder, yesterday. I'm, so far, happy with it. It is not puckering-powerfully-drawing like Sonne's is, yet I still get a kidney-activation out of it (I can feel my lower organs wake up and go yum-yum-yum). Also, I've been craving the taste of the minerals since my colonblow, and it satisfies that.

(oops, I mis-posted)

I also am getting strong effects at low (recommended) dosages of Sonne's. It feels too leaching, to me, to use any more than short term - and I've learned not to take it before bed; it keeps me up all hours. I feel I need to back off rather quickly from it and work on loosening (which I'm doing through deep rumblely singing) and re-hydrating, re-nourishing. Sonne's feels extreme, which puts it in the very-short-term, or occasional, remedial-situation category - for me. I'm not going to be taking it every day for weeks or months... but could see taking it several days in a row occasionally. I still see it as uniquely important compared to everything else I've tried. If the other clays do some of the same things, with a significant dial-down on leaching strength, that'd be way cool. Ordered terramin today.

You know, you could also come out here sometime for a HardLight (link) intensive. Seems like there's one every month. You probably wouldn't learn any technique, but the transmissions... *searches for superlatives, comes up short*

Reasonable rxn from a modern professional artist. When I go to his site and look at his picture for any more than a glance, I get a blast of high-vibe qi. I shy away because I'm already 'married' but, imo, this guy clearly is hooked up to a lot of light. Transmission is more than just blasting away, though - there are details and being specific to students' needs and configurations. Whether he just turns up the bright lights, or has more matured finesse, I can't tell - but I would bet money that sitting with him would be quite an experience. The dna thing I don't find to be believable, but so what.

Sorry I haven't kept up on this thread. I've been busy eating mud and shooting rope out of my ass. I have room, and you are welcome to stay. I'm a semi-bachelor, in a sparsely furnished house, working to recover from collapsed health. So, I'm not tremendously lively - but I do have tea and a spare unfurnished room. As I said to Cam in a PM, I'm working to recover my basics: health. I sat with several bright lights when I was younger, and when I'm ready to resume (if ever, I hope) I feel aligned with teachers I already know. So, I'm not going to see Lama Dorje Max (even though it's clear that he's a very unusual fellow). * picks up phone to order more clay *

Me neither. Understanding-wise, my rxn exactly. Almost freaky magical weird, in a good way. But, as far as the intestinal walls, I feel that the bentonite has a lot to do with pulling the mucoid plaque off the intestinal walls (like we've mentioned earlier) and the psyillium provides the bulk.

The 'pulling' detox definately goes beyond the walls of the intestines. I got a detox of the kidneys themselves, and various areas all in & around the tissues, organs, of the lower jiao. Could be that I wouldn't have noticed it if I hadn't had the history of a brutal toxic illness, but I can say for sure that the detox goes well beyond just the intestines, in a very powerful way. (Though, that was 4 tblspns at a time, which is 4x as much as the recommended dosage - so that probably made it more noticable, also. )

I'm likewise impressed. Exactly. The kind of bentonite (like Sonne's) that has the strong drawing power potentially could be the thing to remove stubborn toxic heat stagnation from the lower abdomen. On a powerful remedial basis. Honestly, that's my feel for it currently. A number of people have suffered horribly, long term, from that sort of situation - and I'm one of them. My situation was complicated by major illness by which I had major toxicity pushed into my tissues in a big way. I can feel Sonne's sucking out that toxicity, like nothing I've tried. ... Really, like almost no comparison. The non-drawing kind could be useful on a more regular basis, more gradual restorative, maintainance. Gotta try 'em. I'm going to order terramin and pascalite today or Monday. I'm curious about the differences, and want to learn more. I've put in an e-mail to join that yahoo group. If there's any other source that lays out the differences, Agharta, I'm all ears. Of course, gonna start experimenting. And we should look out for contraindications, and potential needed balancing acts. Useful, yeah, like so spiritual aspirants who experiment with retention don't turn into sex addicts. And you wouldn't have to be a fully accomplished kick-ass vajrayana just to do so ... it'd be, like, a slightly injured beginner shows up (like they do in droves, here) and we say, "just take this pill and you'll be fine" - and they are. F###!, what a relief that would be. Not that they wouldn't have more to learn and correct, but it's a drag to see people show up and I can see that they're on a slow-but-sure road down a ravine and off a cliff, and the chances of correction are so difficult. Worthwhile comparison, but if the other clays are anything on par with the bentonite that I took... wow. We should snap off this clay stuff to a new thread. *sends msg off to Sean* ~ later ~ In the mean-time, I'm going to resume taking Sonne's #7 bentonite, in the recommended dosage (1 tblspn, 2x/day) instead of the megadose that I took as part of a sup'd-up colonblow.

Agharta, Wow. Thank you for the links, references, for the mention that brought this subject to the fore. There's a category in the Chinese herbal materia medica (link) of herbs that "anchor settle and calm the spirit" and they're almost all minerals of some sort (fossils, oyster shell, pearl, magnetite, etc), though no clay listed. They tend to have effects like "benefits yin and anchors floating yang", "clears heat", "settleing the spirit", and - of course - each acts a little different. I think that the bentonite is doing a bunch of stuff. The one CM-like phrase that came to me about it is that it "clears fire poison". It leaches powerfully; put it in your mouth and you'll pucker .. I don't know that I'd want to take it every day... maybe the other clays are milder in some ways, or maybe the effect of is milder once I've gone through the first few treatments. I want to let this treatment run its course, and then take some oils (hemp, CLO, or etc) to balance out its leaching effect. Just my take on it at this early stage. The clay is definately detoxing me beyond just a colon cleanse. I feel a deep detox going on in my whole lower body (kind of surprisingly not my upper body), both at a tissue level, and emotionally. I've been having a lot of dreaming, which I feel is a clearing of emotional history specifically having to do with lower body. Though I feel calmer during the day. Lines up with what I'm experiencing as far as working on my lower body, but not really my upper. (Though I haven't felt anything really going on with my feet.) Clay, it's an Earth thing. Trunk