Trunk

The taste of straight Noni juice is harsh; the effects are excellent - just buy the stuff that is blended with blueberry juice and its tastes good, too. imo, going too fast could be counter-productive. What I'm using pilates for is ltt development. So, the key to that is to keep my breath and attention steadied in the lower tan tien during the pilates exercises. If I go the exercises too fast, it puts my attention on the externals .. and I might clench up in the tan tien and just try to muscle through the exercises. Basically, pilates is a system of massaging the lower tan tien, through breath, movement, and concentration. If it gets reduced to external exercises, then its not productive towards what I'm there for. Could be that at a high level one could do all the exercises fast and still be centered from the tan tien (not from a clenched-power perspective, but from being able to steady smoothly inhale~exhale count of five for each and letting the massage of the exercise go as deeply through the ltt as it will). Cross-training suits me. At this point, I'm going to take an hour long pilates class once a week, do some minor but regular exploration of pilates during the week, and keep up with swimming, other qi gong, etc. I don't know that an hour every day of pilates is desirable. Certainly beyond my capability, at this point, anyway. I'd like to get to a place where I take the hour class 2 or three times a week. And have some shorter routine, and favorite exercises, nailed for home. I don't know what books/videos are good over all. Too green. Maybe we could provide reviews of what we each bought, compare notes. I have Brooke Siler's The Pilates Body and like it a lot. I also bought "Pilates for Men" and so far don't like it: its breathing method is not in line with what I want to accomplish. .. breathing should be steady and smooth. Also, I found that, after a couple of weeks of experimenting and reading, that a class was the bomb. Just being led through the exercises for an hour is so cool.

LOL, lol. It is. I think if the Taoist community really gets a taste of what pilates is, they'll be showing up to pilates classes in droves. Pilates just doesn't have the terminology... all of western exercise culture doesn't have the terminology, the conceptual framework, to appreciate what pilates is on to. Taoism has all this appreciation and focus on: "the tan tien", built into the Taoist system of knowledge. Those principles are so present in pilates, its unbelievable. Its what pilates is all about. And I can go just a few blocks away, pay the price of a regular yoga class, and have someone drill me through an hour of different poses-moves (which I probably don't have the discipline to put myself through ). Popularly available classes for Taoists!!!, I can't believe it I'm in heaven. Its just that pilates can't market it that way.. What are they gonna say, "develope your tan tien"? The closest they get is "powerhouse" or "core", and then they go on to say how it makes your stomach flat, makes you lean and strong. And there is some moderate muscular exercise in there, but its easy to see that that's not the main thing going on in the pilates system: its tan tien development.

I don't know anything about the new Tao Yin book. I do know that the video is really good, and a much better resource than the first book (which ain't a bad book) - if only that its much much easier to learn this stuff by watching someone actually do it while lecturing. The presentation is just easier and clearer. I had been experimenting with the pilates "the 100" exercise for several weeks, and I took my first pilates class on Monday (at a yoga studio that is a few blocks from my house). Amazing, amazing, amazing. Its the best lower tan tien workout that I've ever had. They don't use the word "tan tien", nor "Taoism", and its sort of marketed towards western women who want to tone up - but really what it is, is poised, steady lower tan tien breathing throughout the whole class, while you're led through unusual postures-exercises-movements that work the lower tan tien from every conceivable angle. This has the effect of opening up blood circulation, and the channels, and challenging your ability to stay centered in your lower tan tien while you do an hour of unusual shit. Let me repeat this: Its the best lower tan tien workout that I've ever had. Kicked my ass, actually. I'm going to prepare, and go back next week. And thanks for the compliment.

Here's a link, with a variety of specific techniques, from the usual.

I edited the original post a little to include a couple of link-references re: fwd and reverse. But yeah, right now its mostly a crib sheet. I do want to put it in an essay format and include it in my website .. after some feedback (I'm sure that you guys will have some useful things to say). It really could be the starter outline for 3 thick books , but I intend to have it in short-essay form with some related links - to help people (including myself) think about this area in a broader way. And, thanks, I like the term too. The three categories might help people assess where they're at better, and set more reasonable goals. At least begin to think along more reasonable, incremental, lines. -- later thoughts -- So, I don't think the purpose of the categories (healing, healthy, advanced jing gong) is to provide any sort of strict nor comprehensive set of answers, but to prompt practioners to ask better questions of themselves and their conditions. And, as a result, hopefully take up more appropriate goals and practices. I'll probably have to cut back on my "crib sheet" list, to just a short general description of each (several paragraphs, max) that can be understood by most any one who reads it. With a few related links. And note my previous point, above.

That's a big topic, that the community hasn't really talked about much. I know that, for me, social integration has definately been a challenge w/ my spiritual path.

http://www.hardlight.org/Death_QA.pdf

I don't like the idea of adding new forum section/s. It confuses me. The fewer places to look, the better, imo. In this case, the only difference between "Open Bar" and "Inner Cauldron" is the level of user that can see/post-in the areas. There's no real difference of meaning of the sort of posts I might look for in those areas... so it seems like duplicate areas in that sense, and would just confuse me. ("where do I look?, where do I look?.. gosh, one more place i gotta look") I think the intent of validating users is good, though. Maybe there are ways that you can do that without creating extra forums?

All this time I never liked the inner smile, but it now strikes me that its a form of kan & li. Suddenly I accept it and like it. Some people are so stubborn! Definately.

Definately crucial. The Sun Do approach keeps coming to mind. Their whole thing is LTT breathing, in different positions through a routine, every day. A quality that they work toward is "silk breathing" - that is, the breathing, tissues, fluids, (& blockages cleared) so that the lower tan tien breathing is as smooth as silk, steadily inhale~exhale, every part of it. Also related to the other topic you mentioned, I think. And to snip Cam's post in here - Really really good one.

Yoda, Basically it comes down to the trouble caused by storing tension. It creates blockages. Tissues tense up, circulation of fluids gets inhibited, accupuncture channels get blocked up. Without good circulation things can't blend well, and so can't produce that harmonized yummy feeling. And also can't express well. All of this can manifest in various ways. Emotional trouble (anger, depression). Erection trouble. Sexual compulsion, addiction. Physical cramping and pain. All of the things that loss of healthy circulation of vitality would imply (re: health, psyche, relationship, spiritual). Basically, all of the good things that're marketed as good results of the sexual cultivation (and that many of us work toward) - if you just take the opposite of those, that's what happens if you do this stuff wrong. But, what can anyone do? Can't avoid the issue; sexuality doesn't go away. Neither flat out denial nor hedonism really work (you've gotta sort of include both, rather, as well as good in-between roads). We're all trying to learn the best we can. Just try and be aware of the issues. You made some points earlier this thread (or maybe another) that sungazing opens and clears your channels. Sounds good. The above trouble really comes down to blockages, that tend to accumulate over time - particularly a risk as a result of aroused retention. And three broad categories that you might look at occuring in is: physical, energetic, consciousness. And whatever you find that works for you in resolving and smoothing the road, all good. (Wrote the above offline. To address your ?'s more directly...) Yes, there's real danger, as described above. Wet dreams don't even it out. Just blows off some juice, isn't a comprehensive working, exercising, circulating, resolving the body on lots of layers. Well rounded, varied, training (and an enjoyable life) is your best bet. Agreed. The difficulty with the sexual practices is that the real trouble often doesn't show up for some years, and by then bad habits have been trained into your chemistry, tissues, psyche. Sex is addictive, difficult to un-do. Then there's the work of sifting through correct/incorrect knowledge, and re-training correctly. Given how difficult all of that generally is, most people never sort it out - and this path (sexual cultivation) is littered with injured aspirants by the wayside who don't speak out much. The level of teaching and knowledge currently in print is.. sad. But sex is fun, and it sells, so everyone jumps on the bandwagon. The existence of these discussion boards is sorting out a lot. We all get together in a way that just didn't exist before, compare notes, and say, "hey!", and work on breakthrough after breakthrough for years & years until we've really made some headway. And likewise to you. Trunk

Quite the opposite. Its easiest to stabalize a balanced blend of energy, and "constantly rev'd" is clearly a very polarized situation. To me it indicates a difficulty. Somewhere, at some layer in your system (physical, subtle, psyche), it hasn't been harmonized. Possible solutions that come to my mind are: - improving the ability to exchange with one's partner during dual-cultivation, so that aroused jing is actually satisfied. - improving solo unaroused cultivation, in order to bring the agitation back to stillness. - Perhaps experimenting with spending more time away from one's partner between times of love-making, in order to fully come back to solo nuetral. - ejaculating more often, until your ability to harmonize rampant energy grows to be more in balance with your tendency to store rampant energy. Basically, taking on the challenge of learning to bring the "constant forward" back to "reverse". However that gets done. I don't think you guys appreciate that semen retention, done wrong, produces all of the results opposite to those it was intended. That is, erodes health, erodes spiritual basis, erodes sexual capacity. As Max (I think) once said, "Its like eating food; its not how much you can eat, its how much you can digest". By that philosophy, lighting one's self on fire, burning for a while, then taking a long bath in ice water would produce good health. I'll take the middle way, thank you.

Rex, Mostly agreed, and well put. Part of this is (as you mention later in your post) keeping in dialogue with the aspects of psyche, and getting good at outward ("forward") activity that effectively expresses your centers' desires, and produces real satisfaction for them, along the lines of their natural self expression. I'm of the opinion that self expression is innate and good, and one should get good at it. Its part of self development, and the healthy expression of "forward". Again, basically agreed. I would also say that jing transforms into light, that that is satisfying, and I strongly suspect that that provides a basis for later very progressive development. Your comments on chod are interesting; its a topic that I'm not read in, and no direct experience. Kan & Li is a system of progressive vertical integration, starting with the blending of heart and sexual centers (in various ways) and gradually including more and more, up and down, both within the body (higher and lower centers) and without (sun/moon, heaven/earth). It is an important part of harmonizing sexual energy. But the HT lacks description of what happens within the deep-centers and of the relationship of the central channel to non-duality in general. The Tibetan Six Yogas system includes the blending of upper & lower center energies, and goes more deeply into methods of resolution into non-duality than does the HT system. Which, in my view (not just my view, but classically as well - in both Taoism as well as others), is critical to getting alchemy to really work. Trunk

Matt and Yoda, My original post was really prompted by reading everyone's comments in thelerner's personal practice thread (end of Aug posts), in which several people mentioned that retaining aroused jing made them horny all the time, "constantly sexually rev'd". I agree that that's fun sometimes (but not all the time), and I agree that jing is a fuel (that can be used well, and/or that people get burned). My point is that, by constantly sexually rev'ed there's this: 1. The attention, psyche and body is driven outward. 2. Its an intense dualistic experience. That is, there is me wanting that, out there. 3. 1&2 are constant, and powerful. ie, "constantly sexually rev'ed". Now, you may circulate jing, save it, refine it to some moderate degree, but I'd still say that the above is FORWARD (by the qualities that I've put in bold).. (unless you refine deeply enough, then it becomes "reverse"). REVERSE is driven by a process of: Gathering energy and attention deeply inward, steadily, in a way that resolves into non-duality. If you just contrast the bold words just here, and up there: forward and reverse. Reverse is the process that, over the long term, gives the whole process real power and stability. Its what brings you from the 10,000 things to The One Place. To me, that's a really important .. well, its the point of cultivation. (And I want to do it in a way that is good for my health, life, and sexuality.) Maybe you guys aren't interested in that, I don't know. "Reverse", in this sense, interupts the cycle of outward desire. Its not that its not pleasurable. There is some pleasure in the process, but there isn't outward grasping of attention. I'm not saying that forward is "bad", that you have to give it up entirely (not that any of us are capable of that), nor any of that extreme stuff. Only that being constantly sexually rev'd would seem to make it harder to turn inward easily, and so sabotages the whole point (or at least a very large point) of cultivation. Do you guys find it to be a difficulty in that way? Do you find yourself overly distracted from being horny all the time? Or are you able to re-direct that force inwardly, still, when you want to, fluently and effectively? It seems to me that if one's ability to turn inward is not sufficiently developed, then you don't have enough power to turn around the powerful fuel that you're saving - so that it ends up creating more trouble (from a buddhist stand-point). But if you're deep-center (and all the physical and subtle layers leading in to that) is developed powerfully enough then that fuel gets drawn deeply inward, and used to further empower cultivation. So, saving jing is both a powerful danger and a powerful opportunity. And, of course, there are the more physical layers of: can you keep your tissues supple, your fluids well blended, and your channels open and free of clogs. Which is all a lot of work in itself. Trunk

Yoda, Matt, Seems to me that you two are ignoring reverse altogether and simply reveling in forward. My intent in my original post was to prompt clarification of both through contrast, excluding neither. Trunk (If you have ?'s about what I mean, please first see if you can answer your ?'s through considering my original post.)

No, not really. My interest is ab.work that gets deeply into the insides, and the ones that I've found really effective for that area I've pretty much stumbled onto - as they're generally not specifically advertised for the sort of effects I'm looking for. I'll give the roman chairs a whirl and get back to you.

I ended up buying The Blue Planet series on dvd. Its all current-life-in&around-the-oceans. Amazing, astounding, incredible. Have watched it over and over.

btw, I think there are numerous worthy charities to donate time and/or $ to. For example, Here's a business-with-the-heart-of-a-charity started by a friend I met at a local coffee shop: InfraSys.biz Its not a charity, in that the investor's get their $ back (if all goes well) and the villages get to keep the resulting profitable business. Very impressive idea, project. Well principled.

to check up on charities: Charity Navigator www.charitynavigator.org Probably there are several services like this on the web, that you could research & cross-check possible charities with.

This exercise has been doing amazing things to my ab. Not just the muscles, more the whole interior. http://www.pilatespa.com/100-Instruction.mov Tips: 1. The arms are extended so that there is connection from finger-tips through to torso. This, with the "water slapping" motion creates a wave that goes through the abdomen (front~back) while you're doing the exercise. 2. Inhale and exhale steadily, count of 5 for each. (The book I'm reading says, "through the nose".) 3. Its important that your lower back is flat to the floor. Book I'm reading teaches this exercise with knees bent, in which position I find it easier to keep my lower spine flat to the floor.

Did you see the video of Jon Stewart on Crossfire?!? Amaaaaazing. If you haven't seen it yet, search yahoo videos for "crossfire stewart".

I stand by my earlier posts in the original thread. Excellent product, excellent results. I have found that results taper after 4 bottles or so. --- later edit --- link to original thread: http://www.thetaobums.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=513

I'm still laughing over the "golden ticket" line.

Lozen, ??. I haven't suggested such, only posted once - briefly - in this thread early on, and didn't mention anything along those lines. And haven't suggested such to you or others in other threads (unless my memory is on the fritz again). Maybe someone else wrote that to you and you mistakenly thought it was me? Trunk