Trunk

.. i think it'd be clear to anyone who 's watched Plato's posts for a while, that by far and away his posts are driven by his avid and sharp R&D sword, and we've all benefited.

Yeah, the Sonnon drills really got me started into a whole world of one-legged qi gong movement. Its difficult to describe in text, and i haven't seen any good pics of what i'm doing any where on the web, yet. Basically, you want to keep the kind of integral connectivity that qi gong postures and movement promotes - while exploring all sorts of angles and postures on one leg, slowly, slowly moving around while keeping integrity of form and root. Those pics have some hint (really just a hint) of the sort of postural styles to explore, but apply the integral-qi-gong-body forms to the more extreme and varied angles of hip and leg in Sonnon's article. - and you really start to get some interesting results! Its not really a strength-training drill, like pistols are, but a slow qi gong movement exercise that still does tap into the power areas of the body (legs, hips, tan tien, chong channel - 1 leg at a time). The resulting increase in root, cnxn, blood flow in the legs, hips, and tan tien - have all been very interesting for me. Though, you've already gone really far with your leg work - probably won't be quite as dramatic for you. T.

Not sure if i ever want to do pistols. I am having fun with a bunch of one-legged stuff though, starting with.. http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/sonnon8.htm .. and adding qi gong, internal martial, tendon changing, postures to it - going really slowly and exploring various one-legged positioning. Applying the principles (posture, movement, yi, qi) of internal work. http://www.golem.demon.co.uk/cia.html There's variety of positioning beyond what Sonnon shows. I'm on the look-out, actually, for a good resource re: one-legged zhang zhuangs and moving work (either online, or other). If anyone knows of any - shoot me a msg. Dig that! Its been raining here for nearly two weeks straight! Had two days of no rain, now it started again. I'm about to go out and run in the early morning rain right now. T.

btw, in classical Chinese medicine, the 8 extraordinary vessels have to do with heaven-person-earth integration. The central vessel with emptiness. The 8 extras are a deeper layer than the five elements. In the internal martial arts, goes through the layers of fascia-tendons-ligaments-bones. The 8 extras resonate with the bones.

Nice post.

Jade is both hard and soft, unified yin & yang. Good symbol. What effect it actually has (by touching, etc), if any, ahdunno.

testing if i can put html links in my tagline..

"Tsongkhapa's Six Yogas of Naropa" has the most profound K&L that i've read.

Once you start getting really clear on what works, why, what causes injury, why, and what is at stake - Plato's comments will look mild and understated. Chia's "Healing Tao" books are neither healing nor Tao, but are contradictory to both.

Sounds like a healthy change. best.

Seems redundant to me... sort, of "why?". We can post our existing e-mail address with our profile. If we choose not to, then the next layer is private messaging through which private conversation and/or exchange of e-mail addresses could occur. It just seems like its all covered.. and anyone could get an e-mail address already from any # of sources. my 2 cents

I'm reminded of a couple of books... One of Castaneda's, that i read way back in the 80's,... Don Juan's students were split up into a small group of women and small group of men - and they kept fairly separate, but found that they tended to be... overly fiesty. So the men & women paired up and each lived together, yet not as a romatic couple. Slept in different bedrooms. Also, Marsha Sinetar's book "Ordinary People as Monks and Mystics", where she talked about contemplatives that were married, or in a steady relationship, that consciously took more time apart. Lived separately for some days of the week, and/or slept in separate rooms. I think that there's (slim) opportunity for relationship with advanced women practitioners, where there's minimal physical sharing, yet profound balancing of energies. Varieties of relationships. Trunk

The point is, that allowing clarifying-conversation to degenerate into personal attacks results in nothing good. Simple point.

Basically, Chia is: selling sensation and marketing it as "Taoism". This is done by abandoning the deeper principles of Taoism (which must be taught first in order for this stuff to work), and promoting some of the more sensational (very advanced, much later) results. Unfortunately, the practices (and advanced 'fun' stuff) without the deeper stuff first is a sure recipe for injury. Results: Good for business, bad for students, bad for Taoism, bad for the world.

Yoda, I don't know of any book or video that is a good reference on this stuff. To really get this, really, really - you can't get it from a book or video. You have to find a teacher of an internal martial art, in a lineage where actually effective heaven~man~earth techniques were passed on, where the teacher is skilled at teaching, and you must study for a long time under personal instruction. Beyond that, it is likely that you will have to study diligently like this, through several different systems under several different teachers (or sometimes the same, or closely related, material through several different teachers)... each time being careful to seek out a good teacher who is teaching something worth while. (This implies some discrimination, patience, wisdom, on the part of the student.) Same goes for enlightenment path. (And they all do go together: internal martial arts, Chinese medicine, philosophy, enlightenment path - all are intertwined.) You can see the aggressive people on this board are doing just that: they diligently learn what they can from one source, then keep progressing. ******** There are simple things that you can do on your own, that can produce beneficial results - but not of the measure from the above. Much of this you are already doing: standing practices, and letting whatever goes through you go through you. Some of the really simple things at my site to activate tendons, joints, etc. Just don't mistake that you're getting the measure of things possible as with a really good teacher. I'd stay away from any really exotic extreme practice. Chia's works, in general, are so messed up - its really amazing. btw, I think that Plato made another real score with Sonnon's material. I don't have time to really get into it (so i can't say much for sure), but i've checked it out a little. The pathway of integration for the internals is fascia-tendon-joint-bone. The joints are the nexus where those things come together, and Sonnon, by emphasizing joint health... I think that probably he's presenting things accessible through video that could be very beneficial to over-all health, emotional reconfiguration, developing some really interesting strength in the body that will help a person age well. He doesn't have the heaven-earth part in there, but, like i said.. you'd just have to find a really good teacher of internal martial arts for an in-person relationship. Sonnon is exploring a potentially very interesting and beneficial path. There's a lot more to say, but i've already put a lot into this reply. One note, that self-refinement is definately part of this process, part of heaven~man~earth integration. Only shallow development available without self-refinement. You have to yield to the greater forces as they re-shape your body on many levels - to do that you have to let go your your self, your own pettiness. (Not always easy.) Trunk

Hagar is correct. Correct marrow washing practices invigorate the liquid part of the bones: the marrow, where blood is produced. The bones become healthier, stronger, yet they feel softer. I suspect that this is what is meant by "jade bones". This can be done without any genital weight-lifting at all. Internal martial artists do it by integrating their body with the forces of heaven and earth, which naturally drive the nourishing essences through the layers of the body (including the bones). The bone practices are essentially a heaven~man~earth practice. Any other auxilliary technique is just supposed to assist with what naturally occurs through that dynamic. Its just that Chia's presentation is so cut off from any authentic understanding of the process, that we're left with a very distorted view. Damn shame.

For those times that you choose to sleep in, try ankle rotations while lying in bed. Either hang your feet off of the end of the bed, or lie on your stomach and raise your ankles from your knees. The rotations assist in breaking up stagnation, not just ankles but also lower tan tien. Could help you bounce outta the sleeping-in-stage much quicker.

I find "threaded" view to be excellent when looking at individual threads, but generally gets in the way (worthless) when looking at a whole section. imo, sections should default to be opened "flat view", while individual threads should default to open "thread view". I'd hate to see "thread view" go away altogether.

dao-Dao-DAO

Serious fellow, going through very real deep transformation. Getting through such work is genuinely harrowing, there is no getting around that fact. Its not just a matter of a better attitude, or taking a no-self approach, (while obviously those are important). Excellent post!

I think a "Training Blogs" section is a really good idea. I think that, too easily, our view of our practices degenerates into structured theory about what "should" be happening in our practice, molding our experience to fit into ideals (as if any of us really knows what's going on), and then - based on all of that non-sense - what we think we should do about it. Manipulations of what is, into what we want, what we hope for, what we think ought to be happening. What is tends to get lost in that process. (I mean, obviously, i like theorizing, too... and am not ready to give it up altogether.) I think a simple "here's what's going on with me" orientation could often be a lot more honest. I'm for a "Training Blogs" section.