Trunk

That's about all I've got. There's more in the various books on Chinese medical theory, herbs, and acupuncture. Readings on various breathing difficulties, including asthma for instance. Also on general five element theory. Bob Flaws wrote a great little book Statements of Fact in TCM with pith statements.

Part of breathing. The lungs take in the air, it descends and the kidneys "grasp" the qi of the air at the bottom portion of the inhale. The kidneys assist in taking in a breath, and absorb some of the qi from that breath.

I bought several bagua dvds of Liu Jingru's some months back ... (someone posted links to buying them from China I think, they were very affordable... anyone wanna quote those links here?, I couldn't find them) ... I'm just getting into them and really enjoying them. Clear instruction, step-by-step.

Healing Tao cautions.

The other day I was doing a kind of belly breathing that my xing yi teacher taught me: it massages the whole length of the abdomenal muscles, over and over. What surprisingly bumped my progress fwd was the appearance of a sphere centered on my central channel, going up and down the torso along w/ the breathing. That sphere has been fostered by my long term practice of kymq. It just "showed up" in this other practice, and bumped up my ability to integrate the energies by a quantum jump. I know I've said this before, but kymq has *really* helped my experience of *other* practices. Any qigong having to do with the hands, holding hands w/ a sweet-heart, even just walking down the sidewalk if I cup each hand - my whole body changes. Including the feet in the practice has also paid off ... connection with the earth + integral qi flow through the body 4 limbs and torso.

I've been watching a lot of comedy lately, most recently Russell Brand. Youtube suggested this video compilation of him re: spirituality.

Wow, pretty f'in' crazy impressive to hear similar stories from all over the world. (To put it in purely scientific terms...) I'm in So.CA and it's been a little like, "huh?" weather for quite a number of years. Different things. Like a dance that has a mis-step here or there, occasionally.

love this

There's kind of a lot packed into those 3, that I should write out in a more detailed way. Stillness and concentration meditations, luminous emptiness, is within the "centering" topic. Integrating the emptiness states with the subtle (vajra) aspects of the body has to do with the alchemy that occurs in the deep-center. Concentration and openness; these things integrate. ... and, yes, the emptiness teachings are important to get. Theoretically and practically.

A thought re: the above within the context of initiation into higher energies (whether spontaneously or formally), which might include kundalini awakening. Kind of a primary dynamic of higher energies, higher states of consciousness, is that they act as a solvent. Things, aspects of consciousness, dissolve as a result of being soaked in higher states. Some of that is pleasant and helpful: refinement. However, there is also a need to skillfully "bring one's self together". As the high energy states become deeper and more sustained, imbalances typical of dysfunctional mysticism sometimes occur.

Isn't there a "what are you listening to?" thread?,... I thought to put this in that thread but couldn't find it. This might have some life of it's own, could get pasted into the other. So, topic: I know that we've talked about improvised qigong movement, which is fun ... I find especially rich once my practice within a more structured movement system has started to mature a little. Sometimes blending structured pieces I've learned ~ improvisation in that system style ~ to music. It happened a bit with xing yi and more recently starting with bagua. I figure it's gotta be really common for many of us once you start becoming more fluent in an internal art, that allows ... more improvised play. More integral as you learn more pieces. As practices deepen ... modern shamanic dance. I'll kick it off. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAM7wEexyvA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyQMmCGMqPo

The deep-centers thread is relevant.

A friend of mine has a medium sized hot beverage urn in his living room, provides hot tea all day. Sat around and drank hot tea all afternoon ... not sure what kind. oh!, some variety of jasmine tea. The convenience and health benefits struck me immediately. Hydrate, all that good stuff you read about tea but when I heat it on the pot on the stove I only have 1 or 2 cups. Water is just too boring. So I went out to Target and got myself a 2 quart carafe (not plug-in, I can easily carry it to any room or just leave it in the living room all day & evening). So yesterday afternoon + evening I drank about 6-7 mugs of hot tea. Just because it was so easy. Ti Kuan Yin, an oolong, with a few slices of licorice root thrown in. The left-over from last night was still warm this morning, yumm, and a good morning starter (contrast coffee or something cold from the 'fridg). Shootin' for an "all things tea" thread. .. sprinkled with tea wisdom. - Trunk

Hot Tea. (I had it bookmarked.)

A variation I've been playing with since I last posted in this thread: tv-kymq. I do the most basic sphere parts of kymq, from the lowest torso slowly up to the solar plexus and back down, over and over, for long duration while watching a movie, youtube, or television program. Reclaims otherwise wasted time to refine the denser lower energies. There's a local theater that has $4 Tues & Weds shows; I've made some real progress there. I find that, with the methods and tips that Sifu Matsuo gives, that centering is built-in. Even after a long duration session, I feel more centered after doing it than before. There's not a remedial necessity to practice stillness afterwards (though, of course, you can if you want to).

(later edit, note: This thread is in context of the previous A Proposed Generic Outline of the Internal Path.) I've been having a pm conversation with Uroboros about (what I call) the "deep-centers", aka "zero points", "still points", "bindus". They are the still places at the deep-center of each major chakra, where they intersect sushumna. The especially potent points along sushumna that are where the key alchemy skillfully occurs to integrate personal alchemy with Luminous Emptiness, "The Big Light". Quoted the pm conversation below. - Trunk It's not *which* center; it is applicable to *all* of the major centers. What is deep-center? It's the "still" place. For instance, in your heart center, start 'feeling' from nearer the front and move inward. In the outer areas you'll feel something ... then as you get into the deep-center, you won't feel anything; it's a still place, has a special relationship to emptiness and to luminous emptiness (I call it The Big Light). THAT is where the critical alchemy occurs, where you stabilize concentration and refine your personal energy into integration with universal. Tibetan, "enter, abide, dissolve". You might not get that on first try, or not for a long time, but that's the direction that cultivation should be headed. Also there's general peripheral work, "open the tissues and channels", etc, but cultivation culminates in profound development of the deep-centers integration with The Big Light. He envisioned a candle flame. You could do it with anything where you visualize light. The Tibetans visualize mantric syllables as luminous. 1. The visualization gives you something to concentrate on. It's hard to concentrate just on a still empty space; the mind doesn't have anything to hold on to and tends to skitter around ... though it can be done and should be done... but there are various ways to do it. A candle flame is one of the simplest ways to do it. 2. Visualizing it as luminous triggers access to Light and that helps trigger the bindu ~ Big Light integration. You could also just dissolve the personal energy completely and that would lead to a spacious Emptiness experience, but The Big Light is a powerful refining agent. Super, super important topic. Probably the most important topic to clarify in all of esoterica. Various practices that "cultivate the center" ... important to look for as a student. Sifu Matsuo said in one of his videos, (paraphrased as best I remember) "all of the methods I teach cultivate the center". I was pretty clear about this theoretically before I met Sifu Matsuo, I had some experiences, some method ... enough to recognize the importance of where he was going with some of his teachings. Those potent points along sushumna, where the centers intersect it, those are the "still" points, the "deep-centers", the "zero points" ... really important. Those potent places are where the refinement occurs that connects you skillfully to The One Medicine. ok, tired of typing, enough for now. Yup. I guess a key realization for me was that the deep-centers refine until they are empty, 'till they unify with a deeper bigger space. However that works for you. In contrast to ideas I had before, about the body or other channels, that I wanted to fill them or make them flow, wanted to accumulate density in the bones, more energy etc. The deep-centers get more energy, tap into a deeper source of energy, by refining into Nothing. Yup. I've often wondered about the different centers relation to color of Light (as you are finding), and am not clear on that. Personally I tend to discard rote relations of colors that I've seen in various lists, and am just interested in what seems natural/resonant for my body. And I tend to prefer the simpler the better. I've often gone for white/gold for all of them and it does not seem to quite work as well for some as others. (There is a uniform relation to spaciousness, though.) notes for later Sometimes when things are going particularly well, a number of centers going at the same time, the whole central channel ignites in relation to that golden white Light ... and it lights up as a whole, as the filament of a light bulb and the sphere of the whole body is ignited. Like the centers are individual spheres themselves then there is a larger sphere that is somewhat larger than the physical form altogether. It's a later step and I wouldn't worry about it happening right away ... but to let you know the direction that this goes in the longer run. And while you start with the centers inside the physical (different traditions advise different orders, I prefer a balanced approached but find in my own work that the lower centers take more work which is probably fairly common), there's a center between the thighs, between the lower legs, a big one below the feet, several above the head. Tibetan art depicts this stuff well. That's the whole of the broad sketch as I know it. There's some details about how the energies reverse, how the subtle body becomes more cohesive and expansive at the same time, how psychological baggage refines in relation to the Big Light ... you'll find all that as you go along the direction you're headed. p.s. And as you become familiar with this process you'll start noticing how various methods of various schools head in, foster, this direction. (Also, where problems occur when some methods or personal approaches contradict the mechanics of this process.) That's been my strong historical preference. And still is my predominant orientation. I've found that, in this case, a little bit of light visualization triggers integration with Light. ... though, of course, proceed as you see fit.

You'll see "hung" spelled different ways (commonly "hum", also it seems to me somehow also like "hugn" like the g & the n are very intertwined). Also, the way I've ascribed them to centers: not always that way in texts or other formal sources. "Hum" is often associated with the heart center in texts. I've actually never seen the mani mantra ascribed to centers at all other than by myself (though I mentioned it to 1 teacher I met acknowledged this way of doing it). This is just something I've found that feels natural and works (both for me and for friends I've introduced the format to). Kind of like, "bing!", immediately 'fits' and feels right. I've had various experiences with it that confirm for me, imo&e, that this is a natural way that it works. Also, it's integral with deity yoga and Guan Yin is acknowledged *very* widely in eastern schools. "Travels well" if you're inclined to explore various eastern schools over the long haul. I find that the mani mantra and so ham concisely take care of things for me, mantra-wise. p.s. re: "om", I've also seen/used various ways. There is the use as the center of the brain as I use in the mani mantra. I've seen one teacher resonate their whole skull using "om". Also, I personally interpret "om" as a concatenation of "so ham", used similarly for whole central channel. (Again, reference Mark Griffin's excellent lectures on "so ham".)

I hadn't kept up w/ reading this thread and yesterday caught up a bit, read through more, watched several linked videos... *wow!*, thank you! everyone for contributing.

p.s. A light bulb is actually a pretty good metaphor... If you're around a light bulb, where do you see the light? Everywhere, the whole room is lit up. ... but where is the light bulb concentrating? It's own filament. Very concentrated. That's where the alchemy is happening. Insights there about personal practice. Also about the experience of sitting with a teacher, common mistakes made vs getting the most out of it.

Thanks. If you want to push it to the pop-charts, 'like' the original post. Yup, yup, yup. All on-target w/ my experience as well (though through different methods). It's amazing once you get where this is leading to, you see how it exists in many systems, schools, methods. I've found bagua to be the most simple and effective for the spine, for me so far. Whatever gets you there. I mentioned earlier that I'd been using the mani mantra, mentally not aloud, sounded resonate the centers, add the visualized syllables to focus the energy into deep-centers. (Fun painting project to learn the syllables well enough to visualize. Accessories: brush pen essential, sumi-e book optional fun.) Here's a quick sketch. I've thought to write an e-book on this deep-center topic, using the mani mantra as illustrative method. If I ever get it finished (I'm pretty burnt out on writing) I'll go into detail there ... but plenty of basics in this thread to get started if a person wants to.

lol, discussion sites have been really helpful. Before, if something wasn't working for me, the component of "it's just me and I just have to work harder" was over-blown. Online you see 5, 10, 20 people with the same difficulty and many of us come to the same solution, lol: it helps. Yup. Of the legs themselves there is something special about the knees... but also, the legs are the left and right. The central channel continues between the legs, ime, and there's a center between the thighs, between the shins and a big 'un below the feet. And there are centers above the head. Tibetan art displays a lot, including the "human egg" (around the whole body). (Fumbling for a better wording for "human egg", haven't found it.) p.s. Somewhere in the Kwan Yin Magnetic Qigong thread I've mentioned adapting the basic technique that Sifu Matsuo teaches in order to access centers below the pelvis.

Mentally. "So" on the inhale, "ham" on exhale. For more details, listen to MGriffin's talks. Yup, that's one of the things that can happen. I dunno, haven't done that part of the 6 Yogas practices. (And some of the more freaky of the 6 Yogas I'd avoid altogether.) The concise of what I got out of the 6 Yogas book was "enter, abide and dissolve"; it's a key phrase. And that that is applied to *each* chakra. (The distinct layers of dissolving in there are beyond me.) Some of the basic reading in that book around that basic part of the practice ... really good.

Many comments that resonate, thanks. While most often we experience them as just rising, I'd add that the energies do go up and down. While the primary work is to establish each center of-its-own, they also share in both directions. Some versions of kan & li are about this: fire is brought down to mix with water as well. Bringing the upper energies down to the lower make the lower energies less dense & stubborn, more supple and kind. Bringing the lower energies to the upper helps to stablize, anchor, nourish the upper. I sat with Mark Griffin steadily for some years in the '90s, so I'm not familiar with all of his newer material... I don't have enough familiarity with that breathing technique to comment, but I've got a few other thoughts. First, he is extremely advanced and perceptive. He can start a lecture about simple breath mechanics and end with how that culminates in maha-samadhi. Or give very detailed descriptions of subtle body mechanics and other advanced topics. It's dazzling and can be very informative as well as sometimes confusing. I found that once I understood the basic process of how the universal energies integrate with the potent places along sushumna and how that culminates in sushumna lighting up as a whole ... it was a huge missing piece for me and it helped me make more sense of his lectures, put a great deal of info in context, and I found that he was often talking about that process all the time and I just hadn't recognized it. A lot fell into place. Also for a student, knowing that the deep-centers are the key to skillfully integrating the universal energies ... and then focusing and refining there (either through direct ability or aided by method) ... that gives a student the key to integrating the higher energies into their own centers. Without knowing that, the higher transmissions wash through you (and you may receive considerable benefit and stages of work) but a key part of really anchoring the transmissions into your own body is missing: your own knowledge of where to focus to foster the process. One of the methods, tools, that Mark clarified that I keep going back to is the mantra "so ham". He's got a number of lectures on so ham I think in his podcasts and certainly at the Hard Light store. I find the so ham mantra to be a brilliantly simple and deep way of accessing and cultivating the whole central channel. For starters I find that "so" opens the central channel from the top down and "ham" closes/fills/resonates it from the bottom up. It integrates with the breath wonderfully and simply right from the beginning, even if I've not warmed up. Very simple, very useful. And then it can go into more integrative advanced states. Mark's lectures on "so ham" are brilliant and detailed. Also, in mentioning Mark Griffin, I just have to say, his level of transmissions is *astounding*. In person and/or through live streaming over the internet. Just totally off the scale. I feel kind of silly in that I have to go to hyperbole and a half to even begin to describe. It's an astonishing opportunity.

Both. Per what I've been saying from the opening post and repeatedly throughout this thread: My point of view is that the universal (ex, The Big Light) has a special relationship with *any* of the major chakras, upper and lower. So, that can be reached at the center of the brain as well as the deep-centers of other chakras as well. ~ edit ~ p.s. And that a balanced approach to development amongst the chakras avoids ... the unfortunate consequences of an unbalanced approach, especially in the long term.