Trunk

An article on Tea and Bone Health.

wish: move this notification from the bottom to somewhere at the top of TTBs page ~ edit ~ If you used just the 1st line (the 2nd is redundant anyway), I bet it'd fit between "Donate Bitcoins" and "View New Content". (Not as a button, just as text.) OR If you can dynamically change the label of the "Chat" tab/button, just add the number after it, like "Chat 8". Bums in-the-know would then know that there are 8 bums in chat. Super space saving. I like this last idea best. Please hold your applause, no, no, that's too much. (My old programmer's mind still has a few firing neurons.)

My uncle is a retired psychotherapist and he suggested that I read Jung's autiobiography, Memories, Dreams, Reflections. Very substantial book; reading it was a real journey.

This idea of writing articles in my own PPF, pinning (and maybe locking) them: I like it. Like my own little "articles" section, but won't scroll away. Zero overhead, more low key than a website. So egalitarian, any bum can do it; I like it. Now that I've gotten that little serious writing done and out of the way, a fun article idea that I've had in mind for a long time is bobbing to the surface. It's a super fun board modification that only needed change of view - no change of rules or format. Way cool.

Whatever works; it's all good. (And with whatever you choose, with so many people here, it's *always* going to be a situation of a million different opinions... too many cooks. You can't please us all!!! )

Seems to me simple to have all the PPFs in alphabetical order.

New Healing Tao cautions thread in my PPF. I've got some posts bookmarked that I'll add later. I'm cautious about the caution thread, lol, as I want it to be about informing and clarifying principle, not about fostering battle psychology. If, generally, students in any school become more clear about principles & method and as a result flourish in health, virtue and spirit *that* is what benefits us all. p.s. Added an intro statement to set tone and direction.

As usual, we differ in basic view. In my view: The nature of this forum is that anyone can speak. That's the up side, that's the down side. No hierarchy, open forum. That's the basis here. For a long time I thought that basis was just obvious to everyone here. Anyway, it's up to the current admin/s and mods to set up the context; members provide the content. With over five thousand members and over four hundred thousand posts, it's reasonable that occasionally someone shows up who knows something about a subject, or that occasionally someone, *any*one, says something sensible, useful, insightful. Seems useful that individuals are able to use the search function, research conversations re: subject, and produce their own summaries within their own PPFs that - of course - somewhat reflect their own pt of view. That ability is already present; no one needs permission. All of our chatter one way or another doesn't change that.

Agreed. Also, there are lots of important topics, spread over threads and time... where to put summaries? One thing that works is that individuals are putting summaries, quotes from various threads, sort of linked tables-of-contents, within their own personal practice forums. This gives them full freedom to research a topic and link creatively, and preserve/control, as they see fit. Puts those summaries in places of low thread volume... like little treasures of info that you can find in the PPFs. Member-driven, member-maintained.

Apparently the HT organization has considered their own IS packing practices dangerous enough that they no longer teach them in workshops, haven't for more than 15 years (per the quote below made by an instructor in 1999). Yet the HT still sells their IS books and videos.

My favorite SFQ exercise is free on yt (on Spring Forest's official channel). It might be of some modest help. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gr5MkMLyoeI Doctors of Chinese medicine might be able to help you, though I realize that in your situation that might not be practical. Often times schools of Chinese medicine have very inexpensive clinics in which supervised senior students are practicing. I echo the comments about mj bringing on schizophrenia for those that have that predisposition. Not saying that's the case with you, only that mj affects different people differently.

Bingo! *Very* pertinent to "Liver qi stagnation" for you. (Obviously, I assume you've realized this.) Super important to tell your dr of Ch.medicine, and perhaps also something you'll need to work on yourself as a long term project.

People vary. Yeah, ok, fundamentals are the same but Saying that a single method will produce sufficient results in all people; it's just not realistic. People vary. Think of it terms of something as relatively simple as an automobile. What work would it take to get "automobile x" running well? Well, obviously, that depends... WHICH automobile? What has that auto been through? As I've mentioned before, that someone might be young and athletic in a western sense does not give good measurement of where they are in terms of the internal arts.

What an actual functioning LDT *is*, the parts n' mechanics of it, the methods and steps and remedial corrections ... that thar is a considerable topic in itself and there are varying pts of view. Just to be general, assume that acupoints, the mysterious pass, the breath and stabalized attention are all involved. I don't consider that I have the last word on what it is/isn't. Deep topic. I think that Master Kim (of Sun Do) gave the best simplest ideal for LDT breathing that I've heard, ... imho it doesn't communicate the deepest mystery of the LDT but does address the critical level of basic health, "SILK BREATHING". That is, the LDT breath is steady, at a moderate pace, and smooth ~ as if running your hand along silk. There is not any unevenness nor rough tension. That's the ideal that you want to work towards. I'd say that the ideal of "silk breathing" could be well applied to LDT breathing methods in general. Different LDT breathing methods, different schools. Often the breathing methods are simple and applied as a main portion of daily practice. back to your ? ... I won't presume to assess whether someone's "lower dan tien" proper is established, but I'd say that if your LDT breathing is flowing like silk, then you are at least in healthy territory.

Yup. In addition to the reasons mentioned above: If a lower dan tien (LDT) method is not established first as foundational, often people use the mco to avoid the energetics of the lower abdomen. Energy just gets shuttled out of the lower abdomen as a primary solution to build-up there and so true resolution within the LDT doesn't get sufficiently developed. That mistaken approach leads to stubborn troubles down the line.

What kind of martial arts do you teach? The part .

Self-massage the whole length of your Liver channel. Kindly, not aggressively. Any place along that route that you find tenderness, soreness, knots: spend extra time gently massaging that area. Not a magic instant cure-all, but very helpful ime.

short cut: Bagua circle walking is the single best spine exercise I've ever tried.

Another thought relevant to Iron Shirt "packing breathing"... Sometimes IS packing breathing is done without sufficient prior knowledge and training in lower dan tien breathing. Often in Taoist systems, lower dan tien (LDT) breathing is foundational. By "foundational", I mean that some version of LDT breathing is often the main practice and is often done for about an hour a day for years as basic training. What do I mean by LDT breathing? Very, very broadly I mean a lower abdomenal breathing method that is done moderately slowly (example, 5 seconds inhale, 5 seconds exhale) with attention towards the ideal of "smoothly", for sustained periods. "Carrying vitality and consciousness, embracing them as one, can you keep them from parting? Concentrating energy, making it supple, can you be like an infant? Purifying hidden perception, can you make it flawless?" - Tao-te Ching (Ch.10) pg 12 of Vitality, Energy, Spirit Master Kim, of the Sun Do school, talks about the ideal of "silk breathing". Meaning, that the breath should be smooth and even as silk. That is the foundational ideal that is worked towards. My thought that if a good foundation of LDT breathing is not in place then much much much more likely that there will be trouble in attempts with Iron Shirt packing breathing (as well as various other aspects of the cultivation path).

My main focus for refinement is not the mco, it's the central channel (especially potent places along the central channel). I get mco refinement and flow incidentally due to nearby alchemy of the central channel. I find it more effective, easier, deeper, etc, than my mco practice results. My other orientation is: open all of the channels. I've come to look down on the "just open this one route and all your energies will be balanced, blah blah blah", lol. Seems to me that that's a grossly over-simplified entry point and just not true. It's intimidating at first, but realistically understanding & undertaking the process of "opening the tissues and channels" it's just way more complex and comprehensive than opening two channels. I know that it has classic roots, probably through lack of personal acheivement I'm just talking out of my ass, but the mco just seems like one of those cheap lines you throw beginners to get them started but is a fraction of the truth. Additionally, which has been more recent for me, is that it's really helpful to open the centers of the feet and hands. In Chinese medical theory, many of the most powerful acupoints are near the ends (hands & feet); a great deal of dynamic energetic change happens in the ends. So, activating the hands & feet is a short-cut to a great deal of refinement. (Obviously I'm happy with the DGS KYMQ method re: this.) So: - central channel - hands & feet - still exploring self acupressure honestly, none of my current work is specifically oriented towards du & ren (though incidentally, yes). Hasn't been for quite a long time.

Similarly, "lungs" aren't particularly Buddhist, lol.

I'm thinking it could be helpful to segue a little bit... and talk about the danger areas of a practice like Iron Shirt IN THE ABSTRACT, not of a particular school, not even a specific version of Iron Shirt method. I mean, the practice exists in all of Taoism, so let's go broad. The basic idea is that you are compressing blood and qi into an area (lower abdomen, tissues, organs, etc) through various breathing methods and postures. That's the Iron Shirt practice in a *very* broad sense. What could go *well* with something like that? (Just common sense wise, not necessarily legendary wow stuff.) Seems to me that it could be deeply nourishing to area/s of tissue that maybe doesn't get good blood flow often. A *mild* amount of pressure~stress could promote growth and resilience in an area, perhaps. If all went well like that, could feel good. What are the basic thing/s that might go *wrong* in a practice like that? I think perhaps the most common danger is that there's often already various yucky stuff stored & stuck deep in our systems and that "packing" those areas would just pack in the yucky stuff more. By "yucky stuff" I mean: stubborn blockages, especially those that've been there a long time, adhesions in the fascia, stored toxicities of various kinds from injury, illness, stored emotional trauma, etc. The problem with that sort of stuff is that it doesn't just flow through easily; people often spend many years, decades, life-long projects to heal their bodies. "Just forcing that stuff through" doesn't work, just jams it up worse. Also, I guess, obviously: if you pressurize an area too much, things are going to start tearing and bursting. Tissues, blood vessels, etc. Especially if there is some weak area, especially an area that you weren't previously aware was so weak. Q. But what is the right amount of pressure? A. It varies for each person. People vary a lot. So, as a student of the internal arts, you need to *develop* a sensitivity for your own body. How much is enough? How much is really too much for *your* body to process? YOU need to *develop* a FEEL for this. (Also, of course, receiving appropriate teachings is helpful.) Common western physical exercise does not provide you with a kinesthetic feel for this kind of work, so go easy, cautiously, especially as you are first learning. Also, look for methods that COMPLEMENT each other. You know: yin and yang! Q. What's the opposite of packing stuff in? A. Circulating stuff, releasing. You need to balance those two kinds of activity in your own body. Apply basic "yin & yang" principles. Go too far either way and you'll create an imbalance. - Trunk

Clicked on this thread expecting it to be poll...

Well, I'm *very* new to bagua, not yet aware of the different styles, and am a slow learner. I'm practicing from Sifu Matsuo's dvds; I don't know what style it is other than that. Maybe zerostao or spiraltao could say more about what style it is?

best to all of us, may we each walk our own appropriate path with wisdom, skill, and luminous fruition.