Trunk

"Between a contemporary practictioner and, a book. And yes'm lots of other practioner/teachers. How are potential students to decide upon any kind of starting point?" Difficult situation at large. "I didn't see you pointing out that TTB's (be) came as a direct result of practioners discussing stuff with each other." I think you're commenting on the limits of my sharing these days? I've shared quite a lot,... but also I'm sharing a lot less than I used to. That's just me, where I'm at. There's still plenty of room for others to share as much as they are moved to!

Eugene, What I have shared has been merely from my own experience and my own understanding. I'm not claiming to represent Laoxie's pt of view. Similarly, I don't find myself qualified to answer your questions, nor even to assess the assumptions within them. I don't feel qualified to assess the methods in a classical theoretical nor a historical context. - Trunk

last name pronounced, "shoe" (like what you put on your foot). "Hsu" = "Shoo"

A really basic principle for moving qi gong is that "the whole body moves at once". The body is integral. I think qigong approaches that isolate parts of the body, without a balanced perspective (and method) that is inclusive of the rest of the body... watch out.

Only 2 basic pages up: 1. DGS, which is accessible through the front page. 2. The HT caution page, available if you have the link. (Almost everything written by HT instructors, or former instructors.) It'll probably be limited to that for quite a while.

Vortex, What's the link to your quoted text that starts, "The founding fathers were intellectual elites who knew their history. They knew that a democracy was unsustainable, ... " That was one of the most f###ing right-on political posts I've ever seen!, lol I'd like to see who wrote it and read the whole article (if that's not it already). - Trunk

Thanks for the contrary pts of view (sincerely). Always good to hear other angles; one person can never say it all. And I'm curious what Gatito's ideas are, once he gets re-e-set-up. One scaled down version of this that popped to mind is the possibility of easily "inviting" groups of people (friends list, for example) to join in a thread - without necessarily restricting access from others. It could work similar to notifications or pms, something like that. For instance, if I were to start a thread on bagua, there's three people that pop to mind that I'd want to "invite" to the thread... but I don't really want to bother to send 3 different pm's to invite 'em. If I could just tag 'em from my friends list when making the original post, that'd be cool. They could get some minimal on-board notification that they'd been invited to a thread.

I feel that I over-stated with the above, and I want to back pedal a bit. Some essentials come up in my mind like: "Breathing", "stillness meditation" as well as lesser known things from other various systems that I find regularly useful. I don't want to mislead and promise that "that's all anyone would ever want/need"... but a lot of my basic sentiment stands. I find the DGS stuff really useful, lol, and if I were only to get 2 dvds from DGS, then the above. There's a lot to work through on each.

Best is to order from Laoxie directly, per ordering directions on my page (got those directions from him): "You may order any of the dvds on this webpage directly from Lao Xie (Sifu Matsuo) via PayPal to the e-mail address [email protected]. single dvd: $108 3-in-1 dvd: $200" Just ask for the Kuan Yin Magnetic Qigong dvd in the paypal message space and make sure your mailing address is included. Applies to any of the DGS dvds listed on fb, ebay, or on the page I created.

Ideally I'd get 2 DGS dvds. I think that most people might get KYMQ and the Bagua Circle Walking dvds and that might be all the qigong they'd ever want, period. (I mean, I looked around for decades trying stuff. No need.) There's so much on each one of these dvds that you might get them a year or more apart from each other and still feel like you have more than enough to work on. I was kind of a nut and felt I wanted to "learn it all" and as it turns out it actually takes me a long long time to digest the practices and even after I do get comfortable with them they just go deeper. So, yeah, I want to learn more, but it's taking me years. I don't think everyone is, nor should be, a nut like that. If you only got two, I'd say the above. My reasons... KYMQ is energetic. It's seated and works with energy, both running through your limbs (arms especially) and energetic core (centers) and brain. Circle walking is more physical. Even the very simplest version of circle walking (which is what I do) is the best spine work I've ever come across. And there are other things in the dvd, a standing posture, squats, etc. If I had to choose just one of those, personally I'd choose KYMQ. And, personally, if I were going to get both I'd still get KYMQ first. I think it'd let the bagua energy go through you more fluently. That's just my perspective. And with each of these dvds, I'd caution that there is no need to learn it all at once. Take any little part of it and work with it as comfortable; let the practices come together as a whole in time, without rush. There is a lot to take in on each dvd. Well, that's the cool thing about getting the understanding of deeper mechanics of the deep-center/s. Once you have that, you can see it in every system and as a result you can get a lot more of whatever system you're in. imo, they all have something that goes there. For instance, the virtues relate to the deep-center/s. As do each of those methods/systems you named. I mean, even people who are not studying any esoteric system, if you say, "stay centered" - they intuitively can know, feel and do some of it. A friend of mine is in a difficult marriage and I sometimes marvel at how he keeps on through it and he says, "I just visualize a candle flame in the center of my heart the whole time". From my spiritual high tech perspective, it's one of the simplest, best, on-target things that he could do. And here I am reading all these books, lol, figuring it out... he's doing the simple heart of it. ime, Laoxie gives a number of tips (like half dozen really important major ones) that made KYMQ give me more effective results, with greater safety than other presentations. That's just my limited experience. I know that different people have different paths, and I don't presume to say for everyone. Nor do I think that the presentations are necessarily exclusive... Someone who finds that their main teacher is another might get some insight from Laoxie's presentation that complements/enhances what they are learning from their main teacher. Or not.

Sometimes practices are talked of as "downward flowing" or "upward flowing". I guess it always actually gets more complex than that within ourselves, because we are complex energy systems: once you put *any*thing in us after a while it's going to go up AND down and other ways too... but, yeah, also agreed: some practices emphasize do "up" or "down" more, no doubt. And those can be appropriate and useful. For me, how I experience KYMQ and also how I see a lot of the dvd's tips leading to and from some of the things that are just said out-right, KYMQ is * centering *. And that's why I'm so hot on it. I've known theoretically and have personally experienced that refining and stabilizing into the deep-centers is where it's at. That general approach is the skillful approach to integrate with Deeper Stuff (Emptiness and Light) in a way that produces stability, cohesiveness, integration, and refinement within an individual. And centering not only allows up and down, but also assists in refining up and down. This has deep implications for approaches to cultivating du and ren (and ida and pingala) in relationship to - and of secondary importance to - the deep-centers. (Or "zero-points", as some call them.) That is probably broad and controversial enough of a topic so that it deserves its own thread. Just noting here that this kind of approach exists. I recently said in another thread: "...sushumna has an especially potent relationship to Emptiness (or "void" as noted above) and Light. A super important phrase in the 6 Yogas literature is "enter, abide and dissolve". Meaning, you go into sushumna (enter) and stay there, stabley concentrated in the center of a chakra (abide) and let the energy refine into Light (dissolve). It's a huge huge HUGE key to all of cultivation, changes everything. The intersections of the major chakras with sushumna, *that's* where it happens. Call it the "mysterious pass" or "the secret of the golden flower" or "bindus". Super important. Get that, and of all spirituality will suddenly make sense to you." And that's what I look for in a system (not the only thing, but the main thing): How does it go about cultivating the deep-center/s? And *that's* what has me so enthused about DragonGateSanctuary: It has lots of very accessible, very effective methods that cultivate the center, in various ways. Some physical, some subtle, often both within the same method. /rant off - Trunk

Welcome!

Basically correct. In basic yogic literature, the energy going through sushumna is described as going up. That's what you'll find commonly and first... and that might be what you experience first. However, it does go up and down. Also resonates outward and inward. (SoHam is a very interesting tool to explore those. ... and, imho, "om" might be used as a compact version of "SoHam" - and with the soham knowledge it helps a lot.) And, more importantly and to the point, sushumna has an especially potent relationship to Emptiness (or "void" as noted above) and Light. A super important phrase in the 6 Yogas literature is "enter, abide and dissolve". Meaning, you go into sushumna (enter) and stay there, stabley concentrated in the center of a chakra (abide) and let the energy refine into Light (dissolve). It's a huge huge HUGE key to all of cultivation, changes everything. The intersections of the major chakras with sushumna, *that's* where it happens. Call it the "mysterious pass" or "the secret of the golden flower" or "bindus". Super important. Get that, and %90 of all spirituality will suddenly make sense to you. - Trunk

Interesting seed idea for brain-storming! Certainly a major growing-pain that TTBs has been experiencing for quite a while is that there are just too many people, and so with so many voices any thread so easily turns into chaos. Frustrating. So, I suspect the general idea that you're offering for exploration is the option to limit replies to those in one's "friends list".... either in one's PPF (or perhaps *gasp*, even in the more public areas - at the option of the original poster). It's an idea worth exploring. In response to a ? you posted elsewhere (whether to leave or stay), I have some random thoughts. TTBs is not an end-in-itself: it should lead to other things and, when those other things are discovered, participation in TTBs naturally diminishes some (probably doesn't stop entirely). My main thought on this is that the existence of TTBs suggests a local cultural lack in general. ie, that there is a lack of local interaction for "Tao bums". Having an e-community is not enough. Participation in TTBs should lead to other interaction. Either with other like-minded students local to the individuals, in-person. That can show up in lots of different ways, but gaurunteed it won't be as convenient as an e-forum. .. but really, really important, imo. As well as connecting with teachers and schools of interest. Re: teachers and schools, Sean mentioned a while back that he sees TTBs more like a cafeteria than a class room. I think that comparison is apt, says a lot. Many people come here looking for quality resources (teachers, schools, dvds, books, etc) and, once found, it's important to spend dedicated quality time "in class". However that shows up. Again, lots of ways to do it. Again, really important. - Trunk

Cautions about "Healing Love".

Some cautions from HT instructors.

I've resigned from TTBs moderation team. I feel there has been a major reorganization in my life with the new year coming. I've felt it on the way for some time. My life is expanding in other directions and my energies for serving the community in this way have come to a sort of natural conclusion. It's been long enough. I value the existence of TTBs immensely. That there is a place to come and openly discuss in this format I think is of significant cultural service. That sounds over blown, I know, but it's true. Thank you for sharing in process of alignment into Light and Depth. - Trunk

"Concierge" -> "The Tao Bums" = aaaaahhhhh, lol

This is inspired by some commonly found kinds of dan tien qigong. I've been working with DGS's Kwan Yin Magnetic Qigong, part of which induces this dynamic in the dan tiens - more so than I'd previously experience via other methods. As a result, the dynamic is more and more natural for me and so when my attention went to gonad work I just naturally tried this and have so far experienced promising results. It's been less than a week since I started w/ it, so who knows how it will play out in the long run... Thought I'd post it here for experimentation & feedback. TECHNIQUE This is done via the yi (attention) slowly in tempo with the breath, with both gonads simultaneously. Ideally you'd do this while exposed to fresh cool air. Inhale: Expand energy in a sphere around each 'nad. Needn't go any larger than several inches an inch beyond the periphery, maximum. Exhale: Concentrate energy into a cool luminous pearl at the very center of each gonad. Small, perhaps the size of a bb. Concentrate, spiral, illumine. Repeat several times: inhale, exhale, inhale, exhale. Then just give it a rest and feel whatever might happen, over minutes and days. I think you'll find this accessible and interesting. TIPS - Don't worry about whether your breath is getting "all the way down there". Just expand / concentrate synchronously with your inhale / exhale. - There is no need to intentionally guide energy else where with this technique. Just expand / concentrate then let results occur. - Be patient with yourself. If you can't concentrate the qi into a tiny pearl, just draw the qi into the gonads to the extent that you're able. RESULTS I'm curious as to what results you experience. Really: Direct description of what you experience, not just "thoughts about". What do you feel? Try it, give it a while to percolate, then post away. ~ edit ~ All this stuff, more effective if you do the physical massage (vas deferens, etc) first.

This method is not necessarily meant to be a part of a retention plan, which goes wrong (in the long term) more often than not, imo.

Thanks, Michael. The symbol at the bottom is the sanskrit hung / hugn / hum symbol. I experience that as rooting. The rest is a person, me in this case. .. how I sometimes experience the "kunlun dragon posture" (hands to sky, feet to earth) plus how a combination of other practices I've learned come together in that posture. The sphere between the hands is a chakra above the head, similarly the chakra below the feet, under the ground. The brightnesses all along the center line. Main practices that led me to this: - mani mantra, secret style - thread in my ppf. this has been really key for me, over a long period of time. - DGS's kwan yin magnetic qigong .. but I've also done some exploring based on what I learned in kymq. - the kunlun dragon posture, which is in dgs's basic circle walking dvd.

happy new year

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-20937759

Recently bumped into this book by Wang Li Ping on amazon. Have not had a chance to look at it, just thought I'd pass on the link.

Yes