Trunk

Though there is a lot of hit 'n miss in that system, the most injury-prone parts of that system: - Healing Love - Iron Shirt Check out those two sections in my website, alchemicaltaoism.com, where there are HT instructors warning about those two areas. The rare part of that system that I feel comfortable recommending is Tao Yin. It is safe, therapeutic, effective. - Trunk ~ edit 2018 ~ Website mostly down, above info is now available through this link:

Self-acupressure sometimes helps. (Look for these pictures at the link.) There are some really deep points just medial to the shoulder blades, not sure if you're talking about that area. Rolling on tennis balls tied up in a sock is a convenient way to get critical lines to each side of the spine (while skipping the spine itself). Like I said, may or may not be the thing for your difficulty.

much of the foundational training at DGS (link 1, link 2) has to do with shaking: called "vibrating" (smaller vibrations) and "whipping" (larger wave-like motions). Both tap into the fascia layer and release, open, connect. Not as free-form w/in the DGS system, but connects the body in certain shapes, "frame", that is then employed in various forms of the internal martial art (bagua, in that system).

~~~ TheTaoBums Moderation Team ~~~ Since the creation of this new exclusively-Taoist-focused discussion section, there's been understandable enthusiastic ideas about, "hey!, what about a [insert specific Taoist topic] subsection?!?" ... and those ideas are sometimes good ones. However, first we want to let this section take root and mature as-is through the end of this year and will review the issue of "if / which new subforum/s" around Chinese new year 2012. In the mean time, let's focus on promoting quality discussion here and I think that the shape of the natural growth of that will largely determine what is next. - Trunk ~~~ Mod Squad out ~~~

This is a complex topic. Not just one answer. Worth while to examine the pros and cons of different approaches in order to develop a balanced approach. Good to read people being honest from many different views. You're missing an important part here, that is generally insufficiently acknowledged in popular books. Read the 'Dangers and Warnings' section. One of the basic dangers is that residual tension in the lower abdomen binds tissue and restricts qi and blood flow. This occurs gradually, over a long period of time, for diligent misguided practitioners, produces unfortunate conditions and is stubborn to resolve.

from the facebook Dragon Gate Sanctuary page

I mostly studied in the 1990's w/ M. I'm only just starting to re-engage now. There has been much work in HL in the interim to provide structured knowledge and practices, much of that new material I'm unfamiliar with. The following is just my experience and orientation... well, not only that... I've also been in some limited communication with students that studied w/ M after the time that I was there. There's a pattern, imho&e. The main offerings of HL, BY FAR, are the transmissions. He is an extremely advanced meditator. It's like, "siddha?, or maha-siddha?". What he offers in meditation is 10,000 times more than anything he says, and that's not even doing justice to it. I just started sitting w/ M via streaming and, yes, it is very powerful. Go to M for that: the transmissions. The studying? Could be you'll learn good/important material, theory, some method. But there is a tendency in this school that M talks at such a high level that people are confused. There has been a lot of work to fill in this gap, but it is still not the strongest suit in this school. For instance, I've heard a lecture on the breath that was perhaps the best lecture I've heard on the breath. Technical and clear. But it started from basic just breathing and ended in nirvakalpa samadhi!!! He describes the steps as best he can, but many people get lost somewhere along the way and need to work much more incrementally at this or that step. It's hard (impossible) to provide all the steps needed for each person in HL. People vary, a lot. So, my observation, is that the people who get into HL get into the transmission stream. Either in-person or over the internet. And they do stillness meditation every day. And they also do whatever other practice suits them personally from whatever source. *Any* practice that works for you (+ stillness meditation). So, if you're looking for good methods at HL, from the lectures, maybe you'll find something for you. And yes you should become familiar with the basic material. But, really, the method at HL IS transmission. I can't emphasize that enough. - Keith

"Clearing of Obstacles", it's a meat grinder.

Hey, man, you gotta use what you have!

Last night was my first time streaming HL. tip: I didn't have time to test beforehand, and couldn't get it to work through FireFox (maybe I'm missing something simple) - but it worked like a charm through iTunes. And, yes, powerful like being there. Nice to be able to walk into my own kitchen afterwards to remedy shakti-munchies. A few quotes re: integrating Light. This goes to the topic of students knowing to and learning to focus into their own deep-centers in order that they can increasingly gain skill in integrating the refined energies that are offered through transmission, develop their own relationship with Light. Whatever tools (methods) you find that work for you to foster that deep concentration. Mark, Thurs night: from Tsongkhapa's Six Yogas of Naropa pg 42 The 6 yogas book repeats "enter, abide, dissolve" over and over and over. A big part of this book. from The Three Principal Aspects of the Path, pg 42 This is the only paragraph in this book (that I recall) that goes into this process.

via e-mail from Lao Xie, he commented: Also, I added this to one of my posts above, thought it worth repeating here.

Amongst the presentations there are some obvious overlaps (incl. RPhx). There's also quite a lot of differences in method and presentation. I'm pretty tired; if you're motivated the rest of you can sort out the details. (If this gets into comparing extensively, maybe a separate thread?) Just to sketch broadly... I will say that, for me personally, DGS's presentation gave me a better understanding of what the hands are in relation to the body, how to charge and activate them individually, what to look for and feel in the interaction between the hands, and I found that all that resulted in much more focused resolution into the central channel (super important). Also, there are a number of major pieces (in both method and principle) in DGS's KYMQ that aren't in the other presentations, that I've found important and helpful in my practice. Worth while even if you've learned the other versions, imo; far from being just redundant.

(links added) Tricky question! 1. Yes, however 2. it's more complicated than that. Yes. I've only practiced a little of this dvd, primarily three practices, none of which assume prior knowledge: - kunlun dragon standing posture - squats (w/ mudras) - the *very* first bagua movement: dragon rolls over If the dvd *only* had those three practices on it, I'd still consider the dvd a bargain even if it cost several times as much. So, on that basis, yes definitely worth it for a complete beginner, imho. (For instance, I'm notoriously bad at squats - too tight. DGS's methods have me loosening up into squats, very surprising.) I don't personally know about the rest of the dvd, no experience. However, your questions start pointing to how things interweave and that's relevant and where things get more complicated. Let me answer more broadly, not only KYMQ. From the little I've seen of this system (and I'm still at a point where I'm missing huge parts of it I bet, there's plenty of DGS practices that I haven't seen any of yet).. but how it's looking to me now, it looks like the DGS system is very strong in at least: 1. Hand and arm development 2. Bagua Both of those have medical, martial, and spiritual application. Through various practices, the hands and arms are opened up physically and energetically. But more than that, the hands and arms are also used as levers into the torso (not an uncommon basic idea). In "whipping palm" the arms/hands are moving like waves. In "vibrating palm" the arms/hands are shaking. In "silk reeling", twisting. In KYMQ, primarily energetic. Even the kuji-in mudras, "finger knitting". All as levers into the torso to develop the core. These things add up and contribute to bagua. Just the little bit that I've done, mostly w/ KYMQ and kuji-in, and how it relates to 'just simple standing' that we've all done (generic nothing fancy). Often times, in the past, when I've done standing I've felt as a hose with the faucet fully open and a mostly closed nozzle on the other end - the pressure builds. Now, as my hands are developing, and as my core is developing, I feel like the nozzle is being opened, the water has somewhere to go. All the earth energy pouring up through the ground now flows through more, but with a lessened sense of pressure and strain. ime of DGS's 'dragon rolls over' the whole body is twisted into a bagua posture and there's a gentle undulation so, again, the core is being developed in a wash-cloth-like gentle twisting and untwisting of the entire torso. And the hands are positioned to let the energy flow through. btw, 'dragon rolls over' is the best kidney massage exercise I've ever tried so it's another one of those "if it were the only thing on the dvd, it'd still be a bargain". So, to sum up. Yes imho, the Bagua Circle Walking (aka, Heart of Bagua) would be beneficial for a beginner. (To what extent a complete beginner could take advantage of everything in the dvd, I don't know.) Also, lots of other DGS practices contribute into bagua to make the experience of it deeper. - Trunk p.s. Ok. I'm taking a rest now. Lots of effort went into writing the above. *insert snooze emoticon here* It's appropriately hard for me to write about this because I'm beginning and so over my head in this system. ~ later edit ~ ZerosTao already mentioned the main silk reeling dvd. I thought I'd just mention that there is a dvd entitled, "Wudang Whipping & Vibrating Palm-methods" (as printed on the dvd) that contains both of the whipping and vibrating palm forms. So, it's sort of a built-in 2-for-1 dvd, efficient to get those methods on that dvd.

Broadly (and obviously), two things: 1. The Teacher's part. The transmissions that Mark, supported by the Lineage, provides to the students. Light, depth, stable structure, precision skill in transmission. 2. The student's part. The knowledge & skill of the student in order to absorb the energy such that it fosters the student's own connection with Light. Admittedly, a lot of the time at Hard Light, it's all that a student can do to show up, breath, still the mind, and surrender to the structure of the meditation coming through Lineage ~ Guru and that is tremendous support. Classically the Path does not happen without blending one's mindstream with such Enlightened Support, Enlightened Cause. .. but still the knowledge, skill of the student to integrate Light into their own centers, really important. Does he teach it? Yes. Does each student understand conceptually and develop the skill, and to what degree? Varies a lot. A big part of the knowledge is about integrating into the "deep-centers", some people call the "mysterious pass", where sushumna intersects the major chakras... it's a big key to integrate Emptiness & Light, and it's in most systems and schools (including Hard Light). Which ever school you're in, important to look for methods that go to that... the tiny quiet place in the center that, just as a part of spiritual mechanics, has an especially potent connection to Vast Quietude and Vast Light. .. at least potentially, if developed. "The secret of the golden flower" itself refers to Vast Light hidden within a center's deep-center.

Yeah, two things I find I have to do after any meditation w/ Mark: 1. Scooch eye-brows down from top of forehead. 2. Pick up jaw from floor.

Dug don_vedo's post. Also checked out your blog for the first time just now.

"Heart of Bagua" is a DGS nickname commonly used in conversation, for the dvd that is actually labelled, "Bagua Circle Walking: Single and Double Palm Change". My impression is that it's the key DGS dvd that teaches foundational bagua positions and movements as well as some exercises that stand well on their own. I've been practicing pieces from this dvd and find it immensely valuable. More than worth it for the 3 dragons of Kunlun exercises alone. There are some teachings about squats that I've been absolutely *gah!* about recently. I've always been kinda tight and this has given me tips that is loosening me up into squats. (It's been so long I just never thought it'd happen.) I've gotten so much from this dvd and I've just barely gotten into the bagua parts of it (which is what the bulk of the dvd is about). ~ later edit ~ Please, you more experienced DGS guys, correct me if I'm wrong on any of this (this or any of my DGS posts). I've still a pretty limited view of the DGS system and am finding my way.

Scotty, Each one of your points you wrote above is well taken. I didn't see some of the things that you were saying right away and the tone of our pm conversation took a dive. I apologize for my part in that. Also, again, thanks for the reviews. Genuinely. - Keith

Though Scotty's & my exchange quickly degenerated, he actually makes at least one good point: DGS does rotate what's on ebay and on their .com website so links to those places would be out-date soon. Why bother? It does help to have a name that matches what's on the dvd, especially when there's more than 1 dvd on a topic. Silk reeling has 3 or 4 dvds, for instance. There are other phrases that are repeated.

There are 3 somewhat varying presentations of this practice (that I know of). Max and Jenny have already been mentioned. Chris Matsuo's version is called Kwan Yin Magnetic Qigong (KYMQ) (link, link). Different people find just-what-they-need in different places.

A friend of mine, a dr of chinese medicine, was talking to his father, who is an ear, nose & throat dr. My friend, "I've been treating someone w/ tinnitus..." His MD pop, "Tinnitus is untreatable". My friend, "It's treatable through chinese medicine; it takes a while, but it is. .. You know there are two kinds of tinnitus, right?" MD pop, "Nope. Do tell." ... Moral of story: Go see a dr of chinese medicine.

Lots to learn from lots of schools. _/\_

He's preparing to travel, teach. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWzTGOqr1KE

To harmoniously gradually integrate more consciously with True Ground, Source, The Big Light, That Un-nameable Wonderfulness.