Trunk

@stellarwindbubble, I’d overlooked the entire classical genre, and I love Wagner. thanks, Keith

Amy Winehouse is just killin’ me. I’ve heard her before some, but now diving in. OMFG! Here is the SAME song (preceded by interview) sung solo w/ 1 acoustic guitar only. Her *VOICE*. o-m-g

This story comes up in my mind this morning, and maybe it has nothing to do with this thread … Back in the ‘80s I was studying with my first meditation teacher in smallish group and the teacher was amazing and everyone intended to be enlightened (though we didn’t know what that was nor how to get there). High goals. And there was this one meeting where students were sharing what their spiritual goals were and I remember a remarkably wise, much-further-along-than us-noobs, humble and centered student said, “I just want to keep cycling through”. Deepening, integrating, resolving.

Agreed that breathwork is a vast subject… but there is a simple basic direction to it: integration. (which might be said of all of the internal arts principles & methods) We are integral but heavy & light stuff in us tend to separate out such that they overlap less, from top to bottom: mind breath body. When we are stressed breathing is shallow into the body and awareness floats even higher. The BASIC direction is that you start blending, unifying those things more deliberately: you focus your awareness deliberately on your breath and train to breathe more deeply into your body. These things blend (stabilized awareness, breath, body) and alchemy occurs: more unification and through layers. And, so, over a long period of time (if you’re into this sort of tribe you end up doing it your whole life) - you get so you more fully feel like you are aware with your whole body and that you are breathing with your whole body. A practice session might not *start* that way, but gets more integral, more smoothly, more quickly over time. So, I wouldn’t expect “whole body breathing” to be the only breathing method that someone would practice (as you’ve already implied), but the result of working with the breath generally, and in a variety of specific ways, over years to integrate to that level. In “Tsongkhapa’s Six Yogas of Naropa” contains a method called “palm and sole breathing” that is notable and in the Tibetan tradition (unsure if this is relevant to the branch of Buddhism that you practice in). Probably you know a lot of this already from your studies. - Keith p.s. Iyengar's "Light on Pranayama" is a modern classic book from the yogic tradition. It's a thick one. p.p.s. You'll find that, in most body-wisdom-disciplines that are movement based - the breath is integral with the movement. Either in a general way or more specifically. Breathwork (stabalized attn + breath + body) is *EVERY*where. Every yogic stretch. Every qigong movement.

Welcome! Some cautions re: retention that we've accumulated over the years

I'm current admin. I'll send you a pm and we'll work it out. - Trunk

My old utilitarian-very-simple car was totaled earlier this year (no one got hurt). I searched for a fun car with the settlement $ and found an affordable 2001 cloth-top convertible. The stereo (it had a cassette player in it which I upgraded to CD) is lit. Even with the top down in freeway traffic the sound system creates it's own atmosphere: it sounds like the music is coming from *every*where and resonating. The car is so small that essentially the whole inside front of the car is a convex resonator being fed by the actual speakers at each side (and behind). So, as I burn CDs for-carry in my new little space capsule, I'm looking for music that was produced, engineered with that "coming from all directions" atmosphere in mind. Notable ones that I've found so far, below. (Not sure if that experience is preserved in youtube recordings). So, I'm looking for musical suggestions to explore: What music have you found that especially creates that "coming from all around you" experience? (Please quote or tag me in your reply - or simply 'like' this post - so that I know I have a new reply.)

People have been reporting UFO's for so long ... ... and most officials have been denying it for so long ... and various officials have been coming out for yrs n' yrs giving exposes ... Now, the public is blase about it, like, "aliens? .. *yawn* .. of course". No panic, no surprise, just, "yeah, we all 've known this for a looonnng time".

I gave you regular member security rights, so you're set now. - Trunk TDB's admin

Welcome!

The amino acids have recently left me feeling a little dry (despite protein rich diet), so I thought I'd jet to Whole Foods and get some friendly oils. Then I remembered the Budwig Diet - the main idea of which is basically that friendly oils + cottage cheese makes both the oils and the protein assimilate easier. (The Budwig Diet people try and cure serious diseases w/ it, and take it pretty extremely. I just add friendly oils to my cottage cheese as a take-away, not expecting miracles.) Really appreciated the results of cottage cheese + friendly oils + amino acids.

I somehow missed the theoretical importance of collagen, recently 'discovered' it. Basically, collagen is the main protein for the entire continuum of connective tissue: fascia ~ tendon ~ ligament ~ bones, which is a main component of what gets developed in qigong, internal martial arts, Daoist internal arts. A friend of mine mentioned that she'd been taking collagen for a while and her hair was noticeably softer. The reviews on amazon: people notice better hair, faster growing nails and joint pain disappearing. These are signs that a lot is going on on the inside that is *very* relevant to connective tissue growth. from Wikipedia I'm pretty sensitive to this stuff, and I start anything new with microdoses. Disclaimer (and I'm not kidding): Health is an *extraordinarily* complex and personal thing. Impossible for me to tell whether this'd be helpful or harmful to any of you. Be discerning.

We must be groovin', because that was exactly on my mind in my approach here, now ... The topic was pinned by default, as it was pinned in the previous PPD section, and I was too lazy at the time to sort it. Now that I return to the idea, I'm deciding to leave it pinned. The FPCK thread has been at TDBs approaching 1/4 century (since Dec, 2009) with steady quality contribution. I think that having the thread pinned is an unusual courtesy well earned. - Trunk

~~~ admin statement ~~~ The owner of this thread, @zen-bear , asked me to move this thread to the General area. - Trunk ~~~ admin out ~~~

Continuing to enjoy the above book, continuing to be impressed. Too early to say that I 'know' anything, yet, lol. Dinner, couple of nights ago I felt decadent and so did what I haven't done in a long time, but used to do more frequently: pastrami special, w/ chili fries and a coke. And I thought to have 1 capsule of each of the amino acid supplements afterward. Now, usually, garunteed, the next morning I'd feel greasy inside and out ... y'know, just kinda yucky that was the hangover part of the 'special'. ... and I'd feel like I had some pastrami & fries still in me the next day ... This time? After taking the amino acids? I felt CLEAN the next day. My skin feels clean. I didn't feel greasy nor heavy at *all*. Impressive. I think that I've gone through most of the extreme results that are often signature of just-starting-something; it's mellowing some. And I have a better sense of what each do, pacing, and dietary complement. Plenty more to learn. Good topic.

@Taomeow, Those are beautiful! I've never seen twisted chopsticks! They look like they feel good! Those are special; thank you for sharing. Any back-story: I'm all ears. - Keith

Just my personal take on this, not that I have a perfect nor classic idea-model of this area, but partly what I've observed (and at least three contradictory ideas that are each important, imho): #1. I think it's important to keep the idea of the integrity of each layer of being, and not generally discard a basic respect for each layer in itself. Someone once said something like, "a problem needs to be solved in the layer it originated in". Build a life that suits you, take realistic care of your human aspect and respect it, etc #2. During some methods (like meditation, etc) you might emphasize a certain layer of being (such as emptiness) as a serious focus and everything subsumes to that during the practice. That's the view, that's the practice. (... and I get that it integrates more with daily life, but ...) And there are pieces of your path where you'll want to emphasize that, a lot maybe... to develop depth and fluency. And, over a person's lifetime, it gets deeper ... no end. So there is that emphasis, that focus, during the practice. There's a phrase in one of Cleary's Taoist books, "manifesting and un-manifesting at will". Merge into The Big Silent One gradually more deeply, more fluently... and be able to put yourself back together with integrity, also. Both of those parts, weave into each other. #3. The Deeper Stuff. Well, if the measure of 'reality' is something like "is it a more foundational, more enduring level of life that we're mindblowingly profoundly part of?" Yeah, well, then I'd kinda say that The Deeper Stuff is more real, lol.

My experience is that once I got the concept of the basic dynamics of what I call the “deep-centers” (specifically, how they integrate with emptiness), then I started seeing that concept in more and more places, … kind of most places. I would suggest that whatever system you’re digging into, it’s there. For instance, if you’re Christian, you can find the Light of Christ in your heart. I guess I want to say a few steps, points, that’ve been helpful along my way … with some pretty strong disclaimers, and encouragement to excavate the classic resources where ever you’re diggin’. Disclaimer: There are whole systems about sequence and if I even start to talk about that what come up in my mind is everything I’ve skipped. Also, it’s extremely difficult to tell what is the right next step for anyone. Geez, I should just pin this sort of disclaimer into my automatic signature, because it applies to my every post. Yeah, so, a few things along the way for me (and skipping a whole lot): - Some training in view and practice of stillness, assumed. - Then there was Healing Tao system introduced idea of the pearl, and I experienced it as nourishing … but *not* as integral with emptiness. I was subtly gently ‘holding’ the nourishment of the pearl, which does have some use but … - The simple Tibetan pith instruction of “enter, abide, dissolve” (though surrounded by an *extremely* ornate system) blew things open for me (conceptually and practically) that the pearl was integral with emptiness and resonated potent points along the central channel … - How to find those potent places (the deep-centers)? They feel like nothing. Like, if you focus on the front of your chest and slowly move your focus back into your heart area there will be layers of feeling … then there is this little still space in the ‘center’ that feels like nothing. *That’s* where the magic happens. The "mysterious pass". The deep-centers can also be found by slowly searching vertically, up and down the center line. Mark Griffin encouraged becoming familiar with "every inch of sushumna". So, those principles dovetail into methods. While *far* from any comprehensive list of what's out there, these are merely a few that jump out at me right now. - The pearl meditation, as described above. - The mani mantra, secret style. Linked from the "enso" essay at my blog. (I think a breathing method linked from there, also). - Kwan Yin Magnetic Qigong I find is one of the more accessible ways to start in on this process. cheers, Keith

There are steps to finding and cultivating the center that are accessible and understandable. There are some in various essays at my free blog https://johndaoproductions.wordpress.com/ It's *not* that there is this high thing that we see but have no access to in our own systems. It can be commonly understood, and accessed incrementally. I've posted more than usual (which was really fun, thanks all) and for now I'm outta gas. "All of my practices promote the center". - Sifu Matsuo and, yup, this phenomena shows up across cultures, across traditions. "The clear bead at the center changes everything. There are no edges to my loving now." - Rumi in Open Secret

"I can live off of a compliment for three days" - Mark Twain My mostly-picture-book-essay about the deep-centers (with very short explanatory captions) was meant to illustrate that process. It seems like the recent text struck a chord - it might be fun for you to scan through that picture-essay and see if it lines up with what I've tried to say here. And, since I seem to be on a little roll, same concept here below again, illustrated briefly with some of the same pictures. (And, like I said before: I'm not claiming to exactly illustrate/know any specific traditional version-of-body nor method ... but, in my experience, from what I've read, from everything I've heard quite a number of astounding teachers tell ... this basic territory is developed in a deep way.) There's this process of integrating a deep-center with The Big Light: ... and we've got a few centers. most of us 'd agree on power, love, wisdom - at least. Same basic process, each place. ... as a result, the whole filament and bulb Lights Up This sort of thing shows up repeatedly in traditional art, because it instructs, as well as is used in popular art ... because it resonates.

Not representing any tradition’s specific technical terms, here … but just basically: The deeper universal energies resonate with the central channel (sushumna), more specifically: potent points along the central channel that, once sufficiently ignited during a practice session, the entire central channel ignites, integrates with the resonance of those energies. Resonance with the golden light of emptiness, or a spectrum of refining colors … both gestures rest on the basic of central channel development. And the work is gradual, incremental, long term. (You’re not going to *poof!* dematerialize the first time you get a glimmer of these things, ). (Given that we are not talking about martial achievements, such as “Golden Bell”, which is more of an iron shirt / iron cloth practice.) And for all that wild advanced stuff, the same basic path applies: - unify breath and stabilized focus - open the tissues and channels - centering - vertical integration - blending one’s mindstream with that of an enlightened benefactor backed by a stable heavenly lineage Pick your teacher, your tradition, your practices … same basic principles. Maybe a bold statement, but we’re all human, basically same structure, after all. … and then (and here’s the boring part): daily practice. You practice and stay at it, and things add up over the long haul. In that way, internal arts are pretty much like anything else. Experience adds up, you learn. Details fill in. Progress occurs. You work really hard for long periods to get to a place, and then suddenly some *part* of it clicks in and what you’d worked hard for now occurs just rapidly, easily … and you go through the long labor of whatever is next on your plate. No end to it, as far as I’ve seen, as far as I’ve heard. When I was in my 20’s and in a panic to move rapidly on the path, I asked my meditation teacher (who was *very* advanced, I can hardly believe looking back the teachers I was so lucky to meet) “what I could do???!!” and he said, “Keith, if I were you, I’d do yoga and meditation every day”. The bland boring answer (also very real, practical) to a scintillating question. And, studying with that teacher, there was the basic sequence of a practice session from physical to subtle: first yoga, then pranayama, then meditation. Same basic physical -> subtle sequence idea can be used with other practices, traditions, of course. Anyway, that’s a lot of blabbing. Hope it’s of help. cheers, Keith p.s. (wow, I'm ranting now) In the Daoist systems, the "earth ~ human ~ heaven" metaphor is used a lot. The martial, health, and wisdom studies are considered integral along that line. Once the larger energies start running through you, it's more and more important that the other parts are in place - otherwise students often get dysfunctionaly blown out by opening to energies that they don't have the knowledge nor development to integrate. There are just droves of students like that, who've gotten very advanced transmissions. ... and, though I usually refrain from recommending specific paths these days, my impression of Sifu Matsuo's system is that it has such students in mind and is set up (at least partly) to help bring sound integration to advanced students who've gotten themselves into these kinds of messes.

Diet is obviously a big part of this: the amino acids need raw material to work with. I woke up at 3am the other morning (with the sense that my body was an oven of activity while I slept) and thought, “gee, a raw egg would be good right about now”. And similarly through the day, craving for various high protein foods. I think my body is going through rapid changes, which sometimes happens when I start with a supplement: strongly felt effects initially, typically smoothing out over time. Easy, steady, see how this actually goes.

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@Ethan singh You might find this little blog to be a concise, simple, accessible, yet deep overview of the internal arts. Generic (not tied to any one system), artsy, free. https://johndaoproductions.wordpress.com/ You also might find Deng Ming-Dao's book, "Scholar Warrior" to be a beneficial overview of Daoism. It's not a targeted at the pinnacles of achievement (as you've requested in your original post)... but is a really excellent introduction. Then search & dive deeply into study of a system & teacher that you find that resonates. best of luck, well wishes, Trunk p.s. I'm not claiming that either of the resources above answers exactly what you asked for, but I would suggest that your view of path, actual steps, achievements ... will sort out and fill in over time. It's natural (and very usual) for beginners to feel their potential strongly and aspire towards the highest peaks. (I did). Then there's steps. It's all good, keep going.

@quack, Glycine is turning out to be a real winner! It really does a lot. That it is beneficial to the nervous system, brain, liver and promotes deeper sleep ... wow! The nervous system healing is *really* interesting. For anyone doing deep internal work (personal and/or transpersonal), your nervous system is going to go through some things. And connective tissue benefits. And it's inexpensive. ($12/bottle of 100 caps) I am cautious about taking anything every day, long term. I'm pretty sensitive and micro-dose my way into things. .. My sense is that Glycine is going to be useful for a long, long time (taken judiciously). After buying 5 different books on Amino Acids, and returning 3 of them, here's the quality two that are left standing: A Guide to Amino Acid and Protein Nutrition The Healing Nutrients Within The above two books I find to be serious. (The other 3, not.) Going to take me quite a while on this study. I also find the reviews at amazon helpful: reading cold theory is one side of it, hearing people's actual feelings/sensations/results (in addition to my own) is also very helpful. - Trunk