Trunk

Kali, Welcome!, Welcome!, Welcome! Many (most?) of us here have an eclectic path, certainly I have. Smorgasborg of eastern spirituality as it's shown up in the western US + american mystics & misc. Hindooey, Taoey, Boodhi. Trunk p.s. You can post in the main section now that you've completed our initiation ritual.

Yikes! Interesting read, rough way of life. From my very little exposure to asian cultures, they vary widely. For a honky (me) there's the initial impression of all the asian cultures kind of being one thing, or at least a somewhat homogenous blend. Not so for them, doubtless not so close up. I dated a Japanese woman for a little while; she had the condition that we not dine in any Chinese restaurants because of the cultural differences. I'm just learning to tell the restaurants apart and don't know either language. T

Ok, everybody... From Chinese 5 element theory, which organ is associated with the eyes? That same organ is most generally associated with stress in the body.

Nice observations. .. and so cool that you published. finding our way observing rocks trees fields paths through the seasons

p.p.s. While we all like to feel rev'd sometimes, if you've read the essays at my site you also know that that heat generates disharmonies over the long term (much like the ones that you've already described that you have). Retention tends to have excess trapped heat as a by-product, so a critical part of the skill set is to learn to clear that heat and resolve any residual tensions and actually spend time in the cooler part of your cycle. Even though no one is actually teaching how to do that (at least not for difficult cases), if that somehow doesn't occur then one's over-all situation will predictably become worse and worse. See the essay Healthy Sine.

It's hard to tell, and it's ultimately impossible for me to say exactly what is appropriate for you. You've gotta fly your own plane, feel things for yourself, decisions are yours. I would say that generally for you for now: go easy on the retention and do lots of self-acupressure, stretching, LTT breathing, any kind of cardio. "Opening tissues and channels" is the main task, and that's what makes retention (or even standard good ol' healthy sex) possible. However you measure out that balance, that's up to you. p.s. Maybe I'm over playing my hand, but I'd say if it takes you more than 3 days to recover from ej (and that recovery period is not currently smooth, but a real drag) and you're hoping to make a short-order adjustment (w/ retention) to 5-7 times a week sex ... that sounds an unrealistic leap to me. You're in repair mode and to progress you've gotta have some sort of respect for your current actual cycle. But, hey, I don't know a lot of other things about you and I can certainly understand wanting to make love to a girlfriend all the time. And, as I said, it's your plane to fly, your ship to steer. Lotta assessments I couldn't make even if I wanted to. Employ your own best judgement and good blessings to you.

That's a bit extreme and I suggest indicates that some basic remedial steps might be more initially appropriate. I think of jing gong (essence work) as "remedial (healing)", "basic healthy", and "advanced". Retention is advanced and since it's all people tend to hear about it's a solution that gets over-applied, "when all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail". I suggest that you look into the massage section, starting with massaging the liver channel. Once you've become comfortable with massaging the Liver channel, explore a little of this & that other self-massage. Follow up self-massage with stretching and gentle lower tan tien breathing, and get some kind of cardio exercise to get some blood circulating. You'll find that all of the above will smooth your recovery curve, so that the loss from ejaculation is more of a mild dip (rather than a serious funk) and that you recover faster. Also, you'll find that as you open more, whatever attempts you make at retention (whether it is just for prolonging love-making or if it is for actual retention) will be considerably easier.... but I'd say that retention is not really your first step. Your first step is to get more towards "healthy normal". Regarding her pleasure, I also suggest that you read the Vertical Positions essay, especially the part about "trigger zones". With that info, in whatever way you apply it, you're likely to keep her happier with less effort on your part. kind regards, Trunk

Good discussion. Many good points and I don't mean to contrary them, but to provide a different perspective that is also valuable. ime, on my own path, I spent way too much time with tunnel vision towards the microcosmic orbit. The body is integral and all parts affect each other. Same goes with channels: there are 12 regular channels and 8 extra channels and they are all inter-related and to just focus on du & ren for so long seems cockeyed to me now. The m.o. is a good intro to the fact that there are are channels to open, and it's not a bad place to start - but it's just an introduction, imo. A broader intake of all the channels and a corresponding applied approach to all the channels will get you much further, much easier, with much more balance, stability and harmony. I mean, if you're the kind of person who is going to spend years at doing this kind of stuff anyway. Trunk

Over at alchemicaltaoism.com, click on "extraordinary vessels" along the left and the related links are under the "core vessel" essays, especially this one (link). That lays out the basic mechanics, and then there are methods that support getting the bindus to light up. I don't know of any concise writing on methods. cheers, Trunk

Where is this guy *getting* this stuff? Didn't just fall off the turnip truck. Serious sadhu stint. The only thing that I'd add is mention of the bindus. Bindus have a natural resonance with the Vast Light and are key to concentration~openness integration.

Varazslo, Always interesting to read the intro's; looks like you've been searching studying and practicing for a while. Welcome! I suggest that you copy & re-post your questions in the Taoist Discussion section. They're good questions and you'll get a lot more response there. Also you might check out my (free) website, alchemicaltaoism.com. It's an accumulation of some of the community discussions over the years, through my prism and filter, plus various other contributions - my own & others. Much of it relevent to your ?s. Trunk

No doubt! Looks like you made it in a car tire rim and that thing is absolutely glowing!

Rockin! You took those? Here's one, not mine - found it just now on the web and thought, "where do I post to share?" - and here you are with this new thread!

That's a keeper!

It is just so cool that there are these various resources and 'camps' in TTBs (or at least accessable through TTBs window). I see people gravitating to certain places and appreciating, the clear vibe that they're progressing in whatever ways... Others whose specialty explorations show up in their blogs...

Interesting post. It might be implied in your description already, but I find a good direction is to relax with the held-in breath. There is no pressure with the holding-in, just a very relaxed holding-in. That relaxation allows an alchemy exchange between the held-in air and your own internals... that gets cut off by the tension of a forced held-in breath. Maybe what you meant already. (Of course there are also breathing methods that do use moderate force in order to massage tissues and increase circulation.)

Following the breath with your attention. - single object concentration to assist in stilling the mind - breathing comfortably top to bottom for duration, + stabalization of attention = leads to a whole bunch o' good stuff - you've always got it with you

LkklW7VEBHA

Nope.For all the heated debate (read "brawls") here re: kunlun, we've kept the boundary of not giving out their simple posture. Check the link that I wrote earlier; read carefully - all the pertinent info is there... uh, from my point of view, imho.

Common 'inside story' is that the orbit goes both directions (probably at different levels). Even in Traditional Chinese Medicine books (in English) the orbit is depicted as overlapping extensively in the lower areas. Some people get results with the run o' the mill simple orbit instructions, and they just go deep from there. Some people say it's a good idea to run it in reverse some times. Another view is that it becomes tricky to run the orbit through deliberate attention at all. Which direction at what times?.. and I'd bet other complications that we haven't thought of yet. Physical movement qi gong seems like a viable alternative. Also (though it frustrates me a little to admit it) the kunlun method activates the orbit in either/and/or both directions through posture alone - it goes which ever direction it goes when it goes, due to your natural alchemy process plus general prompting of the posture. I think that orbit self-acupressure is really good and mostly over-looked. Also, eventually unavoidable: There area a lotta channels and they all have to be opened, gradually, hopefully in some rough semblance of balance with each other. My apologies for the stack o' segues! p.s. Recommended blog is Enter the Dragon Gate. Here's posts w/ label of "small heavenly orbit". Scroll to the bottom to read in chrono order. Vibe is whole other level of conversation.

Well put ?, and this, or a very similar, topic that came up in a recent earlier thread - unfortunately in a context and way that wasn't going to yield positive conversation. I'm really glad that this thread appeared, to bring forth the positive part of that earlier post - which is a really interesting and genuine topic. I'd like to answer the ?, but I need some time to think about it a little first. I can tell you that my thoughts to myself re: this are more nuanced, complex, both more limited and more exhalted than during the first years of my path. (To paraphrase a Teacher,) It's like anything else: you study, practice, experience - and over time it adds up. You get bruised, you accomplish some things, you correct what your can, and your experience/knowledge/skill-base gains depth, detail, clarity. In some really basic practical ways, it's just like learning anything else. May we each and all become more profoundly skilled at harmonious transformation, know ourselves, and be of benefit to all beings.

Yup. Over three years, now. Standard. I do it (while in the shower, using cod liver oil as a lubricant) several times a month and focus mostly on massaging my prostate and seminal vesicles (above the prostate and slightly to each side). When we talked about this initially, years ago, the initial typical psychological~emotional response was .. well, , aversion. Once you get over that initial response, the health and cultivation benefits are compelling. For those that are attempting semen retention, consider, from the essay: "Note that about 60% of semen is produced by the seminal vesicles with most of the remainder by the prostate." Residual tension in the lower abdomen is the enemy in jing gong (triple that if you are experimenting with retention), and is because a by-product of aroused testosterone is DHT (I forgot what it stands for) which causes muscular tension. Residual tension inhibits circulation. Inhibited circulation leads to all sorts of problems. It's just sensible to massage the prostate and seminal vesicles on a somewhat regular basis. For those approaching middle age and older, the same reasons become even more compelling: hardening of the prostate which eventually leads to prostate cancer. Do you want a crystal wand up there occasionally for healthy massage, or wait and eventually have a scalpel up there to cut it out? The acrylic wand massage doesn't resolve everything in the lower abdomen, but it is really helpful, sensible, healthy. My opinion as evidenced by the fact that I still do it these several years since it's been introduced. Recommended standard, ime. Trunk

I haven't been following this thread; probably this has already been said. It's (obviously) really valuable to learn from traditions X,Y,Z, but Bottom line is experiential and, once meditation sets in, labels are the first to go.

What a sweet way to say it!

Welcome!, Welcome! Trunk