Trunk

I wonder if a few of you would indulge me by trying twiddling orbit points, including especially those in the "dantien" area - as an experiment, for a week, for a bit of the time while watching tv perhaps. I'm curious. I'm getting results, but I don't know if this is just me, or if I'm getting results that all of you already had and I didn't, or if we're a lot on a similar page with it. *whew*

Welcome! What part/s, or school/s, of Buddhism have influenced you?

mp3's? ...loaded somewhere on the web?

Welcome Shank! Plenty o' people explorin'allsortastuffhere - jump right in!

Here's my take on it, fwiw. (.. at the risk of redundancy, posted it before.)

The layer that I've been spending more time on lately is acupoints and channels. It's a layer that is subtle, yet still intimately integrated with the physical. Here's the pdf's for Ren-4 (GuanYuan) and Ren-6 (QiHai), both of which have been alternately named 'dantien' (among other things).

Some years ago, on the HT site, someone mentioned about the little orbit. Also, it's not uncommon in Taoist systems, I think. Sun Do has an approach of really, really, stabalizing and filling the lower before moving up. Another system, that I can't mention, same. MChia doesn't promote this idea, as far as I know. MWinn's LTT breathing methods, and the placement within his sequence, exhibits some of this approach. The essay has been there for several yrs. The parts of the essay that I just added were the twiddling and the graphic & quote re: Ren4 thru Ren7 at the bottom. Those acupoints, that area, is horrendously important - per the things that are said about the points in A Manual... and, of course, this is one of the main areas that tends to bind up when people mess around with retention. The twiddling I find to be suprisingly effective. It has a tapping quality that is part of what makes EFT (Emotional Freedom Technique) so effective. Tapping acupoints is a really potent approach. And, of course, twiddling is something that can be done while couch potatoing. Give it a try for a few days; I think you'll be surprised. I was, am. Also, it's part of a series of lower tan tien massage methods that I've been exploring, from heavier -> lighter: Bongers, HoMedics gizmo, twiddling. (All in the massage section.) Plato had promoted some more aggressive massage tools/method way back when, but they didn't suit my body. So, I've been on the lookout for quite a long while for effective ways to massage the area between the belly button and pubic bone. (Including not-massage methods, such as breathing, etc.) Spaciousness is a good sign.

Welcome! I'm voting that you put this line in your signature:

Advanced Yoga Practices (www.aypsite.org). Site with free lessons, free forum, books if you want to buy them.

throwing flower petalsin your direction, for sharing matriarchal wisdom

After having been in eastern-influenced spiritual groups for around 25 yrs, from what I've seen/heard/read, that sounds right. So, I'd agree with the quoted, above. However, this next quote is astray, I think. In what regard? Are you still clinging to the preconception/standard that celibacy = enlightenment in some way? I can think of three non-celibate teachers off the top of my head who were ... legendary for their mystical accomplishment. Giants in the field. Leaders in their lineages. And, oh, yeah, enlightened. I'd suggest that there's a lot of mistaken ideas floating about re: sex and spirituality, and you ("you" meaning "all of us in general") need a durable well tuned bullshit-meter. ~ later ~ Do you have a reference to that work by Kornfield?; I'd be interested in reading it.

Agreed. I'm not putting these broad categorizations forth as exclusive and sequential. My impression is that most people have some degree of all three areas of work & experience going more or less all the time, simultaneously. I'm very suspicious of sequential programs, in general. Complete this step #1 %100 then and only then step #2, etc. It doesn't work that way, people don't work that way. Tends to be more cycling through various areas of work, deeper, deeper. This, then that, then this again, then some of the other, then that but deeper than before. ~ later ~ My point is that many people get sold on the idea of retention without even having basic ideas, principles, remedies of the 'healing' and 'healthy' areas - and so lack a sufficiently broad framework for even thinking about the issues. ~ yet later ~ A TB, Owl, wrote an article on that some time back (link). Also, the aneros has been openly discussed, as Sean said. So, feel free to say what you will.

Of course, just have to say more... (in reply to myself no less! ) If you look at your cycle like a wave graph (and I know this is an over-simplification)... (Tinker with drawing your own, over time.) It's common for people to get caught up (obsessed) with trying to make one part of the cycle last forever. I would suggest that those approaches tend to be ill-directed and dangerous for most people. To re-frame the conversation, you might look at how to keep your natural cycle smooth and harmonious. This sort of study & practice can be challenging, detailed and profound, and there is cultivation in it, and there is healthy relationship. And some of the things that we've learned (lower tan tien breathing, for example) can support this sort of approach. I like to think of "healing jing gong", "normal healthy jing gong", and "advanced jing gong". Most people have not a clue about 'healing' nor 'healthy' and try to go for some totally misunderstood version of 'advanced' - and over the course of years they can really, really screw themselves up without knowing it... that is, they contradict principles of basic good health, which results in need of 'healing' but without resources nor knowledge to do so. And sure, there's upward orgasm, and it's a good thing to share - but I wouldn't suggest becoming obsessed with it. Trunk p.s. And, for extra credit, guess which part/s of the cycle men tend to be most naturally idiotic about?

Not a language thing. Just that the community has been through an awful lot on this issue over the years... spanning from the statement of your first post to current conversations... it struck me as shocking for a moment and I was laughing it off. Too much to post in any one message. A few things, though: The goals that are presented in popular literature, concisely identified in the title of your post, are far from a proper or healthy orientation and set of goals. In fact, over the long term, are often quite detrimental to both health and spiritual well being (for many). More appropriate goals might be: - opening the channels and tissues - harmony - stillness As far as the pelvic cavity in particular, the above includes (but is not limited to) learning to: - clear heat - maintain good circulation - open the hips - smooth the breathing I caution you to be wary of the popularized goals. Becoming savvy in harmonizing your natural sexual cycle might be a more educational and beneficial context for your studies. kind regards, Trunk p.s. Forgive me if I don't reply further in this thread. Local life calls.

(not laughing at you, Vantage, just the state of affairs)

Thank you for the discerning, clear posts.

I'm just discovering electric massage gizmos. * martian patrol-bot * makes a kickin' ab-massage tool - Position: on my back such that my stomach is relaxed. A pillow under my upper back & head. Knees bent, feet flat on bed. - Turn the thing on (vibrates). - Press deeply into my abdomen, short of injurious pain, anywhere between ribs and pubic bone. Hold with both hands over it so as to keep pressure with as little tension/effort as possible. Sustain depth while it vibrates. Either keep it still or slowly rock it around in circles. Not bad for $10.

There's a specific process (link), and a variety of methods to accomplish that.

Aye 2nd that!Three cheers for the Green One!!!

I don't think the goal of forever-retention is healthy for most people, but... before bed:1) experiment with self-acupressure 2) stretching These two are accessable and practical.

No, it's not. Plenty of people read & appreciate posts w/out posting replies. Now, and future surfers-by. (Wish you would post links to your resources so that those sincerely inspired may pursue further.)

!!! wtf?!?Never heard of that happening. What were you doing that resulted in that? What did it feel like during, after? .. I've been gently tapping my sacrum with a bonger; it vibrates and feels good. (score another one for bongers) btw, this is a good thread, topic in general. I think that massage is a whole huge (important) topic that we've barely explored.

from acuxo.com, a handy online acupoint reference. Location of Kidney-2:

Here's a few tips: 1. Partner massage sacrum -> kidneys. With a flat open palm, moderate to slow pace circular steady pressure. Stay in each general area at least until warm: lower back, sacrum, up the spine to kidneys. (A little lotion/oil helps.) This is easy to do while seated lounging next to each other, and can either be soothing, harmonizing (for times in-between sex) or a warm-up. 2. Bladder-40 Massage with gentle pressure. This acupoint is very pleasurably soothing. Can be a partner massage, especially 'just after'. Also can be used in-between times, to pleasurably cool your jets.